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VNEA Rules Question
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Blaine B.
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VNEA Rules Question - 05-08-2017, 02:36 AM

Since nobody reads the rules forum I'll quote my post here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine B. View Post
Player A runs his balls out and shakes player B's hand quickly. Cue ball comes around 3 rails and falls in the same side pocket the 8 Ball did. Who wins, A or B?
I'll quote the VNEA rules here for your convenience.
Quote:
LOSS OF GAME

1. Pocketing the 8-ball when it is not the legal object ball except on an opening break.

2. Pocketing the 8-ball on the same stroke as the last of his group of balls.

3. Jumping or knocking the 8-ball off the table at any time.

4. Pocketing the 8-ball in a pocket other than the one designated.

5. Fouling while (pocketing) the 8-ball in the designated pocket.

6. Third infraction of the slow play rule.

7. Pocketing the 8-ball and the cue ball on the break stroke. (This varies, if your league considers an 8-ball break a win.)

8. Not correctly marking the pocket while pocketing the 8-ball.

Note: All infractions above must be called before the next shot is taken. Only the players involved may call an infraction.
What says AZB and why?


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05-08-2017, 02:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine B. View Post
Since nobody reads the rules forum I'll quote my post here:

I'll quote the VNEA rules here for your convenience.

What says AZB and why?
If "B" doesn't win then VNEA isn't worth a flyin' u-know-what. Looks like rule #7 is pretty clear to me.
  
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VNEA Rules Question
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VNEA Rules Question - 05-08-2017, 03:56 AM

Rule #5 indicates player A is the loser of the game.
The note could be a problem if player A is a dick.

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05-08-2017, 04:36 AM

Rule 7 does not apply, since it is not on the break.

Rule 5 states that it is a loss of game.

Scratches do not need to be called a foul. Sort of a DUH foul, but I suppose a scratching player could catch the cue ball and put it back on the table while the opponent isn't looking (and no one else either)

I have seen some shady play at tournaments. From continuing to shoot after a miss, because the opp isn't watching. Moving a bumped object ball to a spot that blocks the offending player's shot (no ref, rerack)

One of the worst was when two players were tapping the 8 into the rail, trying to freeze it. Player A rushes to look after Player B taps it and declares "Frozen", then proceeds to tap again. His response was that the rules state that the opponent must call it frozen" for it to be a foul not to hit another rail. He got away with it.
  
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05-08-2017, 04:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
If "B" doesn't win then VNEA isn't worth a flyin' u-know-what. Looks like rule #7 is pretty clear to me.
My bad, rule #5, you're right.
  
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05-08-2017, 06:06 AM

Player A scratched on the 8 which is a loss. Shaking hands while balls are moving doesn't concede the game for player B.
  
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05-08-2017, 07:11 AM

Inning isn't over until all balls come to a stop on the table. Cue ball falling in pocket after making the 8 is a loss of game.
  
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05-08-2017, 07:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inaction View Post
Rule 7 does not apply, since it is not on the break.

Rule 5 states that it is a loss of game.

Scratches do not need to be called a foul. Sort of a DUH foul, but I suppose a scratching player could catch the cue ball and put it back on the table while the opponent isn't looking (and no one else either)

I have seen some shady play at tournaments. From continuing to shoot after a miss, because the opp isn't watching. Moving a bumped object ball to a spot that blocks the offending player's shot (no ref, rerack)

One of the worst was when two players were tapping the 8 into the rail, trying to freeze it. Player A rushes to look after Player B taps it and declares "Frozen", then proceeds to tap again. His response was that the rules state that the opponent must call it frozen" for it to be a foul not to hit another rail. He got away with it.
It dont really matter but I'm gonna.pretend I'm SB poll league and ask....what league sis this happen in ?
  
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05-08-2017, 09:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lorider View Post
It dont really matter but I'm gonna.pretend I'm SB poll league and ask....what league sis this happen in ?
VNEA state tournament
  
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Blaine B.
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05-08-2017, 09:24 AM

Anybody here a VNEA ref?

The ref ruled that player A won because a handshake is a concession of the game. I don't see that in the rules anywhere.


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05-08-2017, 09:26 AM

Apparently there are a bunch of unwritten rules that trump written rules according to this certified ref that are brought up at the course.


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05-08-2017, 09:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine B. View Post
Apparently there are a bunch of unwritten rules that trump written rules according to this certified ref that are brought up at the course.
So who got up and went for the handshake first, the player that made the shot or the player sitting? If it's the player that made the shot, it does not matter. The other player just shook hands as a reflex not as a concession accidental or not. If the opponent got up from his seat to shake hands before the shot finished, then it may be ruled a concession of game. I don't think I have seen this happen AFTER someone makes the ball, usually what happens is that someone is about to shoot the game winner and the opponent stands up or approaches the table before the shot happens. Then it's a clean concession and anything that happens after is moot.

There should be no unwritten rules about conceding games, they need to be in the book.


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05-08-2017, 09:44 AM

lol I love it. Doesn't this league make you mark pockets too?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hang-the-9 View Post
So who got up and went for the handshake first, the player that made the shot or the player sitting?
Come on, does that really matter?
  
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05-08-2017, 10:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine B. View Post
Apparently there are a bunch of unwritten rules that trump written rules according to this certified ref that are brought up at the course.
Like the unwritten rule that if a player tries what player A apparently did he is banned for life from the league.

But seriously, I think either the ref wasn't paying attention during the course or the VNEA has some real bad rules problems.


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05-08-2017, 10:07 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hang-the-9 View Post
So who got up and went for the handshake first, the player that made the shot or the player sitting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post


Come on, does that really matter?
Of course, if it's the player that shot ran up to shake hands to make sure the game was "over" before it was, it is different than the opponent getting up to concede the game. It's like rushing to take a shot on a possible close hit before the opponent can ask to have the hit be observed by a ref, trying to circumvent the rules should not be allowed. Intent counts. Accidentally hitting a cluster of balls is a simple foul, while pocking at them with your cue is a loss of game foul the end result is the same, you hit those balls, but the intent in one is to purposefully mess up the current game, while the other was an honest mistake. I am not a trained ref but I have played in enough tournaments and have acted as a ref in them as well as league playoffs to be able to judge when to call a foul technically as it's perceived or to allow for circumstance. Especially in leagues where you have people running up to the table on every other shot with beers waving and trying to tell you about this time a year ago when Bill and Rob got a hooker but were too drunk to do anything while you are trying to shoot.


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Last edited by hang-the-9; 05-08-2017 at 10:14 AM.
  
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