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06-13-2019, 04:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolmanis View Post
Reyes maybe not have so many U.S Opens or WC as Earl but he always nailed "Biggest prizepool of history tournaments" That is what Filipinos want from pool: Win money.

Reyes 3
Earl 1
SVB 1
That's a very important point. Reyes won the IPT event for $500,000 and, if memory serves, two All Japan Championships back when the first prize was about $180,000. When the big money was up for grabs, nobody was tougher to beat than Efren.

I'll add that nine ball was probably Efren's third best game behind one pocket and eight ball, but he was still good enough to beat Earl Strickland in a race to 120 in the late 1990's, when Earl was still at the very top of his game. It was also in the late 1990's that Earl ran his $1,000,000 11-pack.

I've had more than a few chats with Earl over the years, and he only spoke with reverence and awe about two players during those chats: Efren Reyes and Mike Sigel.

Last edited by sjm; 06-13-2019 at 05:34 AM.
  
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06-13-2019, 05:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Snooker Theory View Post
How did you spread your 5 votes, inquiring minds want to know, lol
Sorry if I missed it
My "vote" was deciding on the initial ranking and starting scores for the first round. I didn't think I was necessary (or right) for me to add an additional 5 points in the first round, but I will most certainly vote in the 2nd round. My goal in voting will be to do my best to put Reyes, Van Boening, Strickland, Chia-ching, and Sigel in the top 5. It looks like all of my 2nd round votes will need to go to Wu. He won two major world championships at 16! He also places high or wins most events he enters and he is the current world top player (according to FargoRate). He must be feared by most top players. I hope he gets more votes in the first round so he can make it to the second round of voting.

Regards,
Dave
  
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06-13-2019, 05:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolBum View Post
My vote:

Reyes 2
Sigel 2
Varner 1
FYI, I added your name and scores to the first post.

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Dave
  
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06-13-2019, 05:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
I'm going to go with old guys who had to play all-around games...

3 Varner
2 Hopkins
FYI, I added your name and scores to the first post.

Thank you for participating,
Dave

PS: And thank you for helping me refine the poll concept before I posted it!
  
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  (#65)
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06-13-2019, 05:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9 Ball Fan View Post
If the old timers were in this; I'd include Mosconi and Lassiter for sure.
I think arguments could be make to include all of the old-timers in my honorable mention list if we weren't limited to the "modern era."

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
Note that I have not included players from the too-distant past. For example, arguments can be made that Mosconi, Greenleaf, Lassiter, Hoppe, Cranfield, Crane, DeOro, Lindrum, Caras (and others) deserve to be on the list, but I purposely excluded them since it is too difficult (or impossible) for most people to compare them to players in the modern era. I at least give them honorable mention here.
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06-13-2019, 05:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoloBob View Post
Efren R - 3

Alex P - 2
FYI, I added your name and scores to the first post.

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06-13-2019, 05:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9 Ball Fan View Post
If the old timers were in this; I'd include Mosconi and Lassiter for sure.
You (or Dave) have to draw the line somewhere. DeOro was arguably more of a GOAT than Mosconi but no one here ever saw him play and there is no video. I doubt half even know he was a world champion. Of the list we're voting on, I've seen them all play in person and I've played against twelve of of them.
FYI, I've made the following changes since the original thread post:

"Greatest of All Time" (GOAT) Pool Players (in the modern era, since 1970)

Note that I have not included players from the too-distant past. For example, arguments can be made that Mosconi, Greenleaf, Lassiter, Hoppe, Cranfield, Crane, DeOro, Lindrum, Caras (and others) deserve to be on the list, but I purposely excluded them since it is too difficult (or impossible) for most people to compare them to players in the modern era. I at least give them honorable mention here.


I hope that helps keep the discussion more "focused" and encourages more people to vote.

Thanks,
Dave
  
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06-13-2019, 05:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
I'd like to see Bustamante in the next round of voting, so I'll give all 5 of my voting points to him.
FYI, I added your name and scores to the first post.

I like seeing the power of democracy in action!

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Dave
  
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  (#69)
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06-13-2019, 05:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by noMoreSchon View Post
Man, so many great players...
Mike Sigel. + 2
Nick Varner +1
This next one is tough....Alex/ or Dennis...Each get one...I can't choose.
FYI, I added your name and scores to the first post.

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06-13-2019, 05:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm View Post
I think the poll is valid, but should have been named GLPOAT (Greatest living player of all time) instead of GOAT. GLPOAT is also good here by allowing us to compare these players in their respective primes, rather than considering the matter of who is the greatest player based on current form.

Seriously now, Ralph Greenleaf and Alfredo DeOro are dead for about 70 years. Yes, both are probably among the five best ever, but when they competed, there was no televised pool or streamed pool, so the only people who watched either one are those who watched them live. My guess is that ten AZB posters or less ever watched even one of them play, and what would be the point of including them in the poll only to see them finish well below far less accomplished players?

Omitting the guys most of us never saw play made plenty of sense to me, and I myself saw Mosconi, Lassiter, Crane, and Caras live. Thing is, though, they were all well past their playing primes when I watched them play, so comparing them to those I saw in their primes is a very difficult task.

Within its stated boundaries, this poll is indeed scientific.
Thank you for the comments. Well stated. I agree. See also:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
FYI, I've made the following changes since the original thread post:

"Greatest of All Time" (GOAT) Pool Players (in the modern era, since 1970)

Note that I have not included players from the too-distant past. For example, arguments can be made that Mosconi, Greenleaf, Lassiter, Hoppe, Cranfield, Crane, DeOro, Lindrum, Caras (and others) deserve to be on the list, but I purposely excluded them since it is too difficult (or impossible) for most people to compare them to players in the modern era. I at least give them honorable mention here.


I hope that helps keep the discussion more "focused" and encourages more people to vote.
Best regards,
Dave
  
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  (#71)
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06-13-2019, 05:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolmanis View Post
Reyes maybe not have so many U.S Opens or WC as Earl but he always nailed "Biggest prizepool of history tournaments" That is what Filipinos want from pool: Win money.

Reyes 3
Earl 1
SVB 1
FYI, I added your name and scores to the first post.

Thank you for participating,
Dave
  
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  (#72)
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06-13-2019, 05:39 AM

Wu Chia-ching is at risk of being bumped out of the Top 10.
Does he deserve to be in the second round of voting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
Initial Ranking with Current Scores

Rank - Name - Score

1 - Efren Reyes - 78
2 - Shane Van Boening - 52
3 - Wu Chia-ching - 40
4 - Earl Strickland - 52
5 - Mike Sigel - 53
6 - Nick Varner - 53
7 - Buddy Hall - 40
8 - Johnny Archer - 42
9 - Mika Immonen - 35
10 - Jim Rempe - 35
11 - Steve Miserzak - 37
12 - Allen Hopkins - 35
13 - Alex Pagulayan - 46
14 - Dennis Ocollo - 38
15 - Niels Feijen - 35
16 - Darren Appleton - 35
17 - Francisco Bustamante - 42
18 - Jayson Shaw - 30
19 - Josh Filler - 30
20 - Ralph Souquet - 32
21 - Albin Ouschan - 30
22 - Pin Yi Ko - 30
23 - Thorsten Hohmann - 25
24 - Jose Parica - 25
25 - Carlo Biado - 25

Current Top 10 (for the next round of voting):

Rank - Name - Score

1 - Efren Reyes - 78
2 - Nick Varner - 53
5 - Mike Sigel - 53
3 - Shane Van Boening - 52
4 - Earl Strickland - 52
6 - Alex Pagulayan - 46
7 - Johnny Archer - 42
8 - Francisco Bustamante - 42
9 - Wu Chia-ching - 40
10 - Buddy Hall - 40

Users who have already voted: 9 Ball Fan, AtLarge, Bic D, Bob Jewett, CrownCityCorey, Dimeball, dr_dave, evergruven, JazzyJeff87, Magyar19, mark187, MattPoland, Mich, PoloBob, PoolBum, Poolmanis, noMoreSchon, SamShaddey, Snooker Theory, sjm,TX Poolnut
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
My "vote" was deciding on the initial ranking and starting scores for the first round. I didn't think I was necessary (or right) for me to add an additional 5 points in the first round, but I will most certainly vote in the 2nd round. My goal in voting will be to do my best to put Reyes, Van Boening, Strickland, Chia-ching, and Sigel in the top 5. It looks like all of my 2nd round votes will need to go to Wu. He won two major world championships at 16! He also places high or wins most events he enters and he is the current world top player (according to FargoRate). He must be feared by most top players. I hope he gets more votes in the first round so he can make it to the second round of voting.
  
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06-13-2019, 05:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
Wu Chia-ching is at risk of being bumped out of the Top 10.
Does he deserve to be in the second round of voting?
I don't think he's got the resume to be viewed as top 10 in the modern era, just too few significant achievements. For example, a guy like Ralf Souquet, who also doesn't make the top 10, has won each of these at least once:

World 9-ball Championship
World 8-ball Championship
US Open 9-ball Championship
US Open 14.1 Championship
All Japan 9-ball Championship
Derby City Classic 9-ball
World Pool Masters

Ralf adds to his gold medal at the World 9-ball with two silver medals in it.

Sustained excellence, not sporadic overwhelming brilliance, defines greatness for this pool fan. It's pretty hard for me to fathom why anyone would select Wu over Souquet.
  
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06-13-2019, 05:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
Wu Chia-ching is at risk of being bumped out of the Top 10.
Does he deserve to be in the second round of voting?
I don't think he's got the resume to be viewed as top 10 in the modern era, just too few significant achievements. For example, a guy like Ralf Souquet, who also doesn't make the top 10, has won each of these at least once:

World 9-ball Championship
World 8-ball Championship
US Open 9-ball Championship
US Open 14.1 Championship
All Japan 9-ball Championship
Derby City Classic 9-ball
World Pool Masters

Ralf adds to his gold medal at the World 9-ball with two silver medals in it.

Sustained excellence, not sporadic overwhelming brilliance, defines greatness for this pool fan. It's pretty hard for me to fathom why anyone would select Wu over Souquet.
Good point. I guess I need to have more faith in the democratic process. I was just worrying that people were shunning him since he is Chinese. Democracy is unfortunately sometimes influenced by biases and prejudices.

Regards,
Dave
  
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06-13-2019, 06:08 AM

Reyes - 2
Van Boening. - 1
Strickland. - 1
Sigel. - 1
  
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