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12-20-2017, 11:24 AM

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Originally Posted by Neil View Post
That back pause can also be a trigger to turn off the conscious brain. I know that is when I do it completely. Other triggers start to turn it off, that one completes it. Done correctly, the shot then shoots itself. I never say, "now stroke forward and shoot". I am paused, and then observing what happened.
That is pretty much the way I see it. I don't consciously think "Ready". Mostly I realize my focus drifts away from the object ball at some point and I am not focused on the shot. I am "thinking too much about where the cue ball is going to go". I literally forget my aim. So I use the pause to re-focus on the exact aim spot and feel the speed I will need. I clear my head of the position, where we stand in the match, how important the shot is, etc. I just get comfortable. If I can't get comfortable, something is wrong in my set up and I do get up. That is not often.
  
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12-20-2017, 12:55 PM

I guess I was looking at it more in a on/off fashion while you two are saying it's more of a shutdown process. That makes more sense to me and I can see how that would be workable.

Thanks for the clarification.
  
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12-20-2017, 04:04 PM

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Originally Posted by BasementDweller View Post
I guess I was looking at it more in a on/off fashion while you two are saying it's more of a shutdown process. That makes more sense to me and I can see how that would be workable.

Thanks for the clarification.
Now the "other side of the coin". Your timing has to be on, or that longer back pause will mess you up big time. And you will almost guarantee to screw up the shot.

By timing, I mean that all must be done, and you have full confidence in your procedure to be able to "let go". Your final slow backswing is to assure you that you are dead on with what you already see happening in your mind. The pause is like the slow pull of the trigger. You have committed yourself at that point, and are just letting it fire when it does.

You have to train yourself that if anything changes during that pause, such as doubt, you have to stop everything immediately or that shot may still go off. You have to have full confidence.

I know, that for me, when I have it working properly, it is like a whole different game. The game becomes almost effortless.
  
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12-20-2017, 04:52 PM

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Originally Posted by Neil View Post
Now the "other side of the coin". Your timing has to be on, or that longer back pause will mess you up big time. And you will almost guarantee to screw up the shot.

By timing, I mean that all must be done, and you have full confidence in your procedure to be able to "let go". Your final slow backswing is to assure you that you are dead on with what you already see happening in your mind. The pause is like the slow pull of the trigger. You have committed yourself at that point, and are just letting it fire when it does.

You have to train yourself that if anything changes during that pause, such as doubt, you have to stop everything immediately or that shot may still go off. You have to have full confidence.

I know, that for me, when I have it working properly, it is like a whole different game. The game becomes almost effortless.
That is what I am working towards.
  
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12-20-2017, 04:56 PM

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Originally Posted by BasementDweller View Post
I guess I was looking at it more in a on/off fashion while you two are saying it's more of a shutdown process. That makes more sense to me and I can see how that would be workable.

Thanks for the clarification.
I am still working it all out myself. The pause may shorten as it is less mechanical. I think I mostly lose focus on my aiming point and need a moment to get that back. If I didn't lose that focus to begin with I probably would not need the extended pause to get it back.

The other variable is speed control. With the extended pause I lose some momentum and need to add a little speed as I start from a stopped position to equal the momentum of the more continuous stroke. Still working on it and I appreciate all the input.
  
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01-15-2018, 11:39 AM

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Originally Posted by Scott Lee View Post
Skip...I have always been a "feel" player. That, however, is not something you can teach someone...they have to come to their own conclusions about what "feel" means to them...as it may not be the same for everyone. That said, like Knels mentioned, being in "the zone" or "deadstroke" is probably the most sought after ability a poolplayer can strive for. Anyone who has ever run a rack of pool has experienced deadstroke...even if just for a few shots. What we can control, and deliver under pressure, is a physical and mental routine to accurately set up and deliver the cuestick. Something must be trained physically (consciously), before it can enter the subconscious level of application. This is the real reason why doing the same thing the same way on every shot is the quickest way to see solid improvement, like your friend did. What we are really doing, is creating opportunities for us to fall into deadstroke more frequently (and hopefully for a longer time) Are you less trainable? I doubt it. What you are (imo) is unsure of something about what you do...maybe your stroke, maybe your aim, maybe something else...which is why you continue to seek the "holy grail"...whatever that is. While, in the end, it is different strokes for different folks...simpler is better. KISS rules!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
I don't know if anyone cares but I settled on something I really like. I re-watched my Jerry Briesath video and realized I remembered it wrong. He takes a long pause with the cue close to the cue ball and decides if it is a go or no go. It is his final aim, looking down the stick where he pauses and decides, not in the final back swing.

This works for me and gives me all the standardization you taught me without the count. I take some short CJ Wiley aiming strokes without a count, I may or may not take some full length stokes to release tension then put the stick almost against the cue ball and stop. I take final aim and decide go or no go. If no go I start over and may even stand up and step back into the shot. But if it is a go, I do what Fran and you and Jerry and the whole world suggests, I take it back slowly then shoot. I don't worry about the length of the pause at the back, just the slow take back.

I hope that qualifies my routine as doing something predictable for my sub conscious. It feels just right.
  
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01-15-2018, 03:55 PM

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Originally Posted by skipbales View Post
I don't know if anyone cares but I settled on something I really like. I re-watched my Jerry Briesath video and realized I remembered it wrong. He takes a long pause with the cue close to the cue ball and decides if it is a go or no go. It is his final aim, looking down the stick where he pauses and decides, not in the final back swing.

This works for me and gives me all the standardization you taught me without the count. I take some short CJ Wiley aiming strokes without a count, I may or may not take some full length stokes to release tension then put the stick almost against the cue ball and stop. I take final aim and decide go or no go. If no go I start over and may even stand up and step back into the shot. But if it is a go, I do what Fran and you and Jerry and the whole world suggests, I take it back slowly then shoot. I don't worry about the length of the pause at the back, just the slow take back.

I hope that qualifies my routine as doing something predictable for my sub conscious. It feels just right.
Well, heck. You just changed the whole thread. You just realized that Jerry didn't say what you initially thought he said. That changes everything. Geez! LOL


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01-15-2018, 04:11 PM

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Well, heck. You just changed the whole thread. You just realized that Jerry didn't say what you initially thought he said. That changes everything. Geez! LOL
Nobody ever accused me of getting things right the easy way.
  
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01-15-2018, 04:49 PM

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Nobody ever accused me of getting things right the easy way.
Hey Skip.

Watch Mr. 400 363 ball run in 14.1. (1hr 34min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUJ3...&feature=share

What I would like you to pay attention to is his pause (or change of feel for the forward pushing of the cue) he pulls back the cue, stops, then pushes the cue forward, pulls back the cue, stops, then pushes the cue forward. It's real easy to see.

He feathers the cue ball (measures the shot/gets a feel for the shot) pulls back the cue, stops and then pushes the cue thru the cue ball. The purpose of the back swing is to go from measuring to pushing (you have to stop on the back swing to begin the pushing motion of the cue)

He is very pronounced with this movement.

Hope this helps.

John


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Last edited by One Pocket John; 01-15-2018 at 05:14 PM.
  
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01-15-2018, 05:07 PM

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Originally Posted by One Pocket John View Post
Hey Skip.

Watch Mr. 400 363 ball run in 14.1. (1hr 34min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUJ3...&feature=share

What I would like you to pay attention to is his pause (or change of feel for the forward pushing of the cue)

He feathers the cue ball (measures the shot/gets a feel for the shot) pulls back the cue, stops and then pushes the cue thru the cue ball. The purpose of the back swing is to go from measuring to pushing (you have to stop on the back swing to begin the pushing motion of the cue)

He is very pronounced with this movement.

Hope this helps.

John
Nice video and yes it does help. I guess what has changed for me is less conscious thought in the back stroke pause and more rhythm. All the thought is while stationary with the cue extended.

As an aside I have watched a couple of players who do such a swooping stroke they don't go back and forward so have no pause at all. It is a circular motion. Like the old Mazda engine stroke.
  
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01-15-2018, 06:08 PM

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Originally Posted by skipbales View Post
Nice video and yes it does help. I guess what has changed for me is less conscious thought in the back stroke pause and more rhythm. All the thought is while stationary with the cue extended.

As an aside I have watched a couple of players who do such a swooping stroke they don't go back and forward so have no pause at all. It is a circular motion. Like the old Mazda engine stroke.
Just keep watching the video over and over. What will happen when you practice is your brain will start to replicate what you have watched. Takes time.

If you poke at the cue ball you will immediately know you did it wrong.

In BOLD above. That's their way of executing a shot. But it may not be yours, you have to find your way of playing.

Mr. 400 is pushing the cue ball where he wants it to go as does Alex Pagulayan. Not hitting it. Watch Alex on YouTube you will see the resemblance.

Here is another fine example of a player pushing the cue ball where he wants it to go. Watch his back stroke as compared to John's and Alex's. this is a personal feel for a shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP2GlqN49Js

John


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01-15-2018, 06:51 PM

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This is the real reason why doing the same thing the same way on every shot is the quickest way to see solid improvement, like your friend did.
Scott Lee
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Oops, now there's something that I am guilty of NOT doing. So many times I see any easier shot I just bend over and hit it. Maybe not quite that bad, but you get the idea.

I am going to start focusing on DOING THE SAME THING on every shot starting tomorrow. Whether it's a simple duck to a longer cut shot I am going to start doing the same thing.

Since all it does is snow here in SW Indiana what else do I have to do? Besides the birthday party for my dog tomorrow, Jan 16th. Whitey Herdog turns 3 tomorrow.

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