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denwhit
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12-16-2017, 10:46 AM

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Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Is it money or mentality, you ask? It's money. How can anyone possibly compare sports that can earn players millions of dollars to pool?
Professional sports, no doubt what you are writing about. But when I played golf and tennis, I took hundreds of lessons from qualified teachers of the game. Most people in those sports do that often. I just don't see it in pool. You can glean the guys on AZB. They've never taken a lesson.


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12-16-2017, 06:25 PM

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Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
Professional sports, no doubt what you are writing about. But when I played golf and tennis, I took hundreds of lessons from qualified teachers of the game. Most people in those sports do that often. I just don't see it in pool. You can glean the guys on AZB. They've never taken a lesson.
Well, who were you referring to when you wrote "the world's top professionals"?


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12-16-2017, 06:41 PM

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Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Well, who were you referring to when you wrote "the world's top professionals"?
No, all I was saying is in golf or tennis, most people (that want to get better) take lessons from the professional teachers and we work on the drills trying to improve. I just don't see that in pool. Maybe because the golf professional teachers are hanging around the range or in the club house and we get to know them. Same with the tennis pros. So, in pool, we've got to ask the pool hall owner if he knows of anyone. Just a different composition. In my opinion, pool players that want to improve NEED to see a professional occasionally.


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FranCrimi
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12-16-2017, 10:50 PM

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Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
No, all I was saying is in golf or tennis, most people (that want to get better) take lessons from the professional teachers and we work on the drills trying to improve. I just don't see that in pool. Maybe because the golf professional teachers are hanging around the range or in the club house and we get to know them. Same with the tennis pros. So, in pool, we've got to ask the pool hall owner if he knows of anyone. Just a different composition. In my opinion, pool players that want to improve NEED to see a professional occasionally.
No, actually, this is what you wrote: "Mystifying to me. The world's top professionals, at the top golfers and tennis players strive and work out frequently with their coaches and teachers, making the changes hoping to get even better. But pool players think they can get it by playing. Is it money or mentality?"


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12-17-2017, 06:39 AM

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Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
No, actually, this is what you wrote: "Mystifying to me. The world's top professionals, at the top golfers and tennis players strive and work out frequently with their coaches and teachers, making the changes hoping to get even better. But pool players think they can get it by playing. Is it money or mentality?"
All I wrote was that the world's very best at all sports still take lessons... except pool players.


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Pool Players and Instruction
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Pool Players and Instruction - 12-17-2017, 10:24 AM

And we wonder on here what to do to win the Mosconi Cup.

ďI donít need an instructor/coach; HAMB; gamble; watch every video ever made; buy another new stick, case, tip; throw balls on the table and run them out; instructors canít play, etc., etc.Ē

Every professional sport has physical trainers, strength coaches, mental coaches, skill coaches, practice regimens, video tape analysis, nutritionists, and a head coach. Golfers have physical trainers, sports psychologists, swing coaches, nutritionists, and a caddy.

Playing pool on a professional level requires all these skills and more.

It is time for a change in our attitude to embrace coaches and instructors. Snooker sure has. Europe and Asia does. Embarrassing!
  
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12-17-2017, 11:05 AM

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Originally Posted by mfinkelstein3 View Post
And we wonder on here what to do to win the Mosconi Cup.

ďI donít need an instructor/coach; HAMB; gamble; watch every video ever made; buy another new stick, case, tip; throw balls on the table and run them out; instructors canít play, etc., etc.Ē

Every professional sport has physical trainers, strength coaches, mental coaches, skill coaches, practice regimens, video tape analysis, nutritionists, and a head coach. Golfers have physical trainers, sports psychologists, swing coaches, nutritionists, and a caddy.

Playing pool on a professional level requires all these skills and more.

It is time for a change in our attitude to embrace coaches and instructors. Snooker sure has. Europe and Asia does. Embarrassing!
I agree with you. The professional guys are one thing, but I'm talking about people (like me) that play pool hoping to succeed. I do take lessons regularly and am amazed what my professional knows about the game. I think others would too if they just thought about it.


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Low500
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12-17-2017, 11:54 AM

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Originally Posted by mfinkelstein3 View Post
And we wonder on here what to do to win the Mosconi Cup.
ďI donít need an instructor/coach; HAMB; gamble; watch every video ever made; buy another new stick, case, tip; throw balls on the table and run them out; instructors canít play, etc., etc.Ē
Every professional sport has physical trainers, strength coaches, mental coaches, skill coaches, practice regimens, video tape analysis, nutritionists, and a head coach. Golfers have physical trainers, sports psychologists, swing coaches, nutritionists, and a caddy.
Playing pool on a professional level requires all these skills and more.<=== can't agree with you on this word "more".
It is time for a change in our attitude to embrace coaches and instructors. Snooker sure has. Europe and Asia does. Embarrassing!
You make a LOT of solid points. Well worth thinking about.
Here in the states, from what I see though, it's wise to stick to the axiom of "BUYER BEWARE".
  
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12-17-2017, 12:19 PM

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Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
All I wrote was that the world's very best at all sports still take lessons... except pool players.
Right. And you asked if it was money or mentality. I answered your question. It's money, without a doubt. Don't think for a minute that the worlds best pool players wouldn't love to have a full time coach with them everywhere they went. Of course they would. This isn't about mentality. It's about money.


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12-17-2017, 01:20 PM

Low500...If you even had half a clue, you would know how to distinguish "expert/professional" instructors, like Mark Finkelstein, and many others I could mention (most of the best instructors in the USA post here(. Some used to, but were driven off by the trolls (look in the mirror at this point). Professional, quality instruction, that utilizes video analysis, is a solid path to a better pool game...whether you're just starting out, or you've been playing for 50 years. Anyone can improve, if you approach it the correct way. BTW...nothing is free in this world. Watch all the youtube videos you want...but it still doesn't replace the value of one on one instruction.

Here's the sad state of affairs here in the USA...I hear this every day from poolplayers of all abilities: "Pool lessons? I don't need pool lessons...I KNOW how to play pool. What I really need is a new (insert brand name here) cue! If I only had that cue, everything would be different!" That same player will plunk down $500-$2000+ for that cue...but wouldn't even consider spending a few hundred to actually learn how to play with it!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

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Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
You make a LOT of solid points. Well worth thinking about. Here in the states, from what I see though, it's wise to stick to the axiom of "BUYER BEWARE".


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Professional Pool player skills
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Professional Pool player skills - 12-17-2017, 02:46 PM

Physical fitness
flexibility
hand eye coordination
stamina
nutritional awareness
mental resilience
focus
visual acuity
stroke skills
eye patterns
ball to ball physics
game strategies
equipment maintenance

Improving each of these skills/areas will improve performance. Iím sure I left some things out.

Iím curious as to why you think pool is not as complex as golf.
  
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12-17-2017, 03:39 PM

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Originally Posted by Scott Lee View Post
Low500...If you even had half a clue, you would know how to distinguish "expert/professional" instructors, like Mark Finkelstein, and many others I could mention (most of the best instructors in the USA post here(. Some used to, but were driven off by the trolls (look in the mirror at this point). Professional, quality instruction, that utilizes video analysis, is a solid path to a better pool game...whether you're just starting out, or you've been playing for 50 years. Anyone can improve, if you approach it the correct way. BTW...nothing is free in this world. Watch all the youtube videos you want...but it still doesn't replace the value of one on one instruction.
Here's the sad state of affairs here in the USA...I hear this every day from poolplayers of all abilities: "Pool lessons? I don't need pool lessons...I KNOW how to play pool. What I really need is a new (insert brand name here) cue! If I only had that cue, everything would be different!" That same player will plunk down $500-$2000+ for that cue...but wouldn't even consider spending a few hundred to actually learn how to play with it!
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Maybe some literary comment could be in order here......"hell hath no fury like that of a woman scorned". (insert the appropriate noun to replace 'woman')
Enough said from me.
Reference my post #23.
Have a nice day.

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12-17-2017, 04:00 PM

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Originally Posted by mfinkelstein3 View Post
Physical fitness
flexibility
hand eye coordination
stamina
nutritional awareness
mental resilience
focus
visual acuity
stroke skills
eye patterns
ball to ball physics
game strategies
equipment maintenance
Improving each of these skills/areas will improve performance. Iím sure I left some things out.
Yes to all of the above!
Iím curious as to why you think pool is not as complex as golf.
Good question, sir.
I've walked golf courses as a kid to pick up some money when the players would pay you to carry their clubs...long before golf carts became the thing. Those grounds with their hills, rolls, slopes, water, and sand traps...not to mention how the placement of the cups on the greens changed fascinated me. I just never could grasp how a sport like golf could be close to a game like pool shooting.
Maybe because most golfers I've seen are trim, in good shape, and are excellent athletes. (I know nothing about how to play it...I never hit a golf ball. I was so into baseball I didn't care about golf...except to pick up some money. I was too busy learning to hit the "low and away"...from some good coaches too, by the way. Chuck Tanner being one of them)
I can't say the same for most pool players.........and I dislike fat people. I consider being fat a weakness.
That's just me, but what do I know? I'm just an old worn out pool player who really loves the game and likes to work and soak up genuine factual knowledge. And there is a lot of that genuine knowledge to be seen here on this wonderful site of ours.
Thanks for posting.
You seem to be calm, reasonable, and not carrying a chip on your shoulder.
Keep on truckin'
P. Lowenstein
  
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12-17-2017, 04:11 PM

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Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Right. And you asked if it was money or mentality. I answered your question. It's money, without a doubt. Don't think for a minute that the worlds best pool players wouldn't love to have a full time coach with them everywhere they went. Of course they would. This isn't about mentality. It's about money.
I think you may be on to something there Ms. Crimi.
This game we love just isn't lucrative enough to underwrite the expense of having a coach along at the events.
Unlike Hollywood, with the big bucks, where most top actors had a coach right there on the sets to help and critique how they were interpreting and playing a scene.
Oh well...life goes on and we take the bitter with the sweet.
Stay happy.
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12-18-2017, 06:15 AM

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Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
Mystifying to me. The world's top professionals, at the top golfers and tennis players strive and work out frequently with their coaches and teachers, making the changes hoping to get even better. But pool players think they can get it by playing. Is it money or mentality?
Money, mentality and culture of the sport--every golf club on Earth has a pro and likely several assistant pros, too. Most pool halls lost their in-house instructors and house men decades ago.

Me and other friends, teachers and pros, will play on amateur leagues for fun--just to hang with the guys and gals and so on. We've offered free lessons before and have been turned down by league mates trying to win championships! Do you know what's it like to get on airplanes and daylong car rides and stay in hotels just to have to teach someone who wants to pay for a lesson?


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