CJ Wiley's New Blog

CJ Wiley

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
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Getting Down more SQUARE on your Shots ...CJ WILEY

mristea said:
Hi CJ,

I will jump on the opportunity to address you a question, hope you will not get bored with my long post and you will have patience until the end to get to the question :)

For years I struggled with my sighting, I even thought that my eyes have problems that don't allow me to play pool consistently...I had days when I was just "seeing" the shots and days when I could not play a straight in shot...
I only recently started to understand what was (and still is sometimes) happening and why I was so inconsistent...
I was changing my eyes position during the transition down from the standing address to getting down behind the cue ball...and this is so hard to notice for our amateur un-trained eyes, because our eyes have this great possibility of adapting the sight picture no matter how you look at the shot (with dominant eye right over the shot line or with the other line a bit on the shot line etc.). But getting the dominant eye out of his dominant position / out of the shot line is ruining the whole alignment to the shot in my opinion, without us (amateurs) even realizing...

After some time of working with systems like ProOne and SEE, I started to understand how the eyes (and mostly the dominant eye) should be placed when getting your visuals while standing above the balls - but the most important part and in my opinion the sercret to great pool is how to bend your body / eyes down during the transition from standing to getting down behind the "CORRECT" cue ball...
Our torso can bend down in so many directions, and this is the main reason why us amateurs can not get consistent in my opinion - we are not approaching the shots consistently, not getting down correctly behind the cue ball...because it's not easy at all - all the instructors say get straight down, lock your chin, keep your eyes on the same vertical plane etc. - well it's not so easy...at least for me...because our 2 eyes see 2 different images that they are able to blend in 1 picture, it's hard to focus on the right "picture" / direction, the one seen by the dominant eye...
For me the way to learn how to get down right can only be seen if, after acquiring my visuals while standing, I close my non-dominant eye so that I cann see what my dominant eye sights - the direction towards the cue ball - and then I open the other eye and get down on that right line - though with both eyes open that direction looks so strange...but only until I'm down behind the cue ball and I no longer see a blurred / un-clear image like I used to when my eyes were not placed right, but a clear one and the shot just looks right and I feel I can not miss it...

It took me 1 year to understand Stan Shuffett's left and right pivots in Pro One...in his instructional video he was just saying for a left pivot move your eyes left of the center to edge line, for a right pivot move your eyes right of the center to edge line and place your tip in the center of the cue ball once your eyes pick center cue ball...well how much left and how much right should I move my eyes LOL How to guide yourself?? I think the answer lies in the way our dominant eyes sees different shots, different angles - I noticed that if when bending down I follow the direction seen by my dominant eye I indeed move my eyes either right or left of the center to edge sight line, exactly as Stan described...

Sorry for all the rambling but I wanted to have a clear description of what is happening, to me at least.

And now the question to you :)

How do you lower your body down behind the cue ball? Where do you look, what are you focusing on when you start your transition down / during the time you bend your torso and just before you place your bridge hand behind the cue ball (another crucial moment in my opinion - placing your bridge is the most over-looked aspect of consistent pool imho).

Thank you for your input CJ, I am really curious to see what a pro like yourself "SEES" from the moment he acquires his visuals until he is down at cue ball address and ready to shot...I have your Ultimate Pool Secrets DVD which contains tons of great info, much of it is unique, not seen in any other instructional video I've watched, but it did not contain the answer to my question :)
Click to expand...

I really do understand your delima and have had issues with this on and off since taking my time off from professional pool. The main thing I suggest is you try to see the connection between the balls naturally....like you would see something across the room. The real issue with seeing this line naturally arrises from the way our bodies are shaped, forcing us to shoot at the side of our body while looking straight ahead (approximately)....Especially at an older age I advicate facing the shot more....putting the left foot ON THE LINE OF THE SHOT and placed more on a line beside the right foot (like you'll see the snooker players stance)....this keeps you from having to cock your head or contort it as much as standing more "sideways".....are you following me so far?

I have a drill I would like you to try to get the feeling for what I am describing......This is the first time I'm putting this in writing, I always show this in my lessons, so I'm going to break into 5 steps.

  1. First, it's ideal if you can use a shorter cue like a jump cue....if not just choke up to the front of the wrap
  2. next put the cue ball about 8 inches from the end rail in the center of the table
  3. grab the cue with your left hand ON TOP of your right hand at the front of the wrap as if your two hands were just one "UNIT"
  4. Stand DIRECTLY behind the cue ball looking staight from the cue ball to the center diamond on the opposite end of the table (set something on the rail to aim at if you want...it's only important that it's straight ahead of the cue ball)
  5. This position will put you directly behind the cue ball looking staight down the path with your head very even, balanced and natural....forget about dominant eyes and just look naturally staight down the cueball....you obviously can't shoot like this, but you can get into this same position IF YOU STAND MORE SQUARE TO THE SHOT.....I go over how to do this in the first volume of my ULTIMATE POOL SECRETS.....I suggest you get it out and watch it again....this time just paying attention to my head position and my LEFT FOOT.....my RIGHT HIP IS ALMOST DIRECTLY BEHIND THE LINE OF THE SHOT...and I'm standing pretty square looking FULLY down the "LINE OF THE SHOT".......you can even see and example of this if you don't have my DVDs at www.cjwiley.com



    Feel like your shooting straight out of your chest.....completely facing the shot with your eyes as square and natural as if you were looking straight ahead down a long hallway....this is the most natural way to look and stand.....it puts less pressure on your back and you line of sight is completely square, not cocked or bent to one side or the other.....Take a look at the first few minutes of this link of Steve Davis and notice his FEET...his HEAD POSITION.....his DISTANCE FROM THE BALL.....his left foot is OPEN to the line of the shot which is great in snooker, but I would advise in pool to make it DIRECTLY ON THE LINE OF THE SHOT.....Take a look at this and try the things I've suggested and I think you'll start to understand how to come down more square to the shot and get the feeling that you're shooting out of the CENTER OF YOUR CHEST....

    Steve Davis EXAMPLE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEB_LBBJvzo
 
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M

mristea

Pool maniac
Silver Member
cjssecrets4u2 said:
I really do understand your delima and have had issues with this on and off since taking my time off from professional pool. The main thing I suggest is you try to see the connection between the balls naturally....like you would see something across the room. The real issue with seeing this line naturally arrises from the way our bodies are shaped, forcing us to shoot at the side of our body while looking straight ahead (approximately)....Especially at an older age I advicate facing the shot more....putting the left foot ON THE LINE OF THE SHOT and placed more on a line beside the right foot (like you'll see the snooker players stance)....this keeps you from having to cock your head or contort it as much as standing more "sideways".....are you following me so far?

I have a drill I would like you to try to get the feeling for what I am describing......This is the first time I'm putting this in writing, I always show this in my lessons, so I'm going to break into 5 steps.

  1. First, it's ideal if you can use a shorter cue like a jump cue....if not just choke up to the front of the wrap
  2. next put the cue ball about 8 inches from the end rail in the center of the table
  3. grab the cue with your left hand ON TOP of your right hand at the front of the wrap as if your two hands were just one "UNIT"
  4. Stand DIRECTLY behind the cue ball looking staight from the cue ball to the center diamond on the opposite end of the table (set something on the rail to aim at if you want...it's only important that it's straight ahead of the cue ball)
  5. This position will put you directly behind the cue ball looking staight down the path with your head very even, balanced and natural....forget about dominant eyes and just look naturally staight down the cueball....you obviously can't shoot like this, but you can get into this same position IF YOU STAND MORE SQUARE TO THE SHOT.....I go over how to do this in the first volume of my ULTIMATE POOL SECRETS.....I suggest you get it out and watch it again....this time just paying attention to my head position and my LEFT FOOT.....my RIGHT HIP IS ALMOST DIRECTLY BEHIND THE LINE OF THE SHOT...and I'm standing pretty square looking FULLY down the "LINE OF THE SHOT".......you can even see and example of this if you don't have my DVDs at www.cjwiley.com



    Feel like your shooting straight out of your chest.....completely facing the shot with your eyes as square and natural as if you were looking straight ahead down a long hallway....this is the most natural way to look and stand.....it puts less pressure on your back and you line of sight is completely square, not cocked or bent to one side or the other.....Take a look at the first few minutes of this link of Steve Davis and notice his FEET...his HEAD POSITION.....his DISTANCE FROM THE BALL.....his left foot is OPEN to the line of the shot which is great in snooker, but I would advise in pool to make it DIRECTLY ON THE LINE OF THE SHOT.....Take a look at this and try the things I've suggested and I think you'll start to understand how to come down more square to the shot and get the feeling that you're shooting out of the CENTER OF YOUR CHEST....

    Steve Davis EXAMPLE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEB_LBBJvzo
Click to expand...


  1. Thx for your answer CJ, indeed I reviewed your DVD (the Creating a solid foundation and Connecting to the line of the shot chapters), and usually I am trying to do all of this with my body.

    But still sorry for pushing lol but can you maybe describe what are you actually concentrating your sight during this transition down behind the cue ball? Do you look at the cue ball? Object ball? Shot line? Do you still align your cue to the shot line in the air like you were explaining on your DVD? (similar with what Mika Immonen does for those who did not watch CJ's instructional video)
 
A

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
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AtLarge said:
Here's a preview video for his dvd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCl3gtp2FUY. Do you think his grip is the same as yours?
Click to expand...

cjssecrets4u2 said:
no, his is at the back of the cue...when the wrist is cocked forward it forces the grip closer towards the balance point. I don't advocate this grip to the average player....if the person isn't a golfer or tennis player it would be very difficult to use.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that Lee's grip is fundamentally different from yours or that it is different only in that he is at the back of the cue and you are more forward?

And does your golf/tennis comment apply to Lee's grip, your own grip, or both? I have long wondered about your reason(s) for the grip you use. In golf and tennis, the ball is being hit in (roughly) the direction the palm is facing, whereas in pool the ball is being hit (roughly) 90 degrees to that. My conjecture has been that perhaps you are trying to eliminate unnecessary wrist movement for greater consistency.
 
One Pocket John

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks to CJ for mentioning the grip as similar to tennis. I googled tennis grip and now understand. Conventional, I believe.

John
 
CJ Wiley

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
AtLarge said:
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that Lee's grip is fundamentally different from yours or that it is different only in that he is at the back of the cue and you are more forward?

And does your golf/tennis comment apply to Lee's grip, your own grip, or both? I have long wondered about your reason(s) for the grip you use. In golf and tennis, the ball is being hit in (roughly) the direction the palm is facing, whereas in pool the ball is being hit (roughly) 90 degrees to that. My conjecture has been that perhaps you are trying to eliminate unnecessary wrist movement for greater consistency.
Click to expand...

I'm interested in controlling the top of the cue with this style grip (which would be like the left side of the tennis racquet)....after all we're hitting most shots with the top of the tip ... I try to keep the cue ABOVE my wrists....this gives me a stronger wrist motion than conventional methods do. I haven't seen anything written about this style grip, I just like it because it gives me more flexibility with my hand/wrist.
 
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L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cjssecrets4u2 said:
I'm interested in controlling the top of the cue with this style grip (which would be like the left side of the tennis racquet)....after all we're hitting most shots with the top of the tip ... I try to keep the cue ABOVE my wrists....this gives me a stronger wrist motion than conventional methods do. I haven't seen anything written about this style grip, I just like it because it gives me more flexibility with my hand/wrist.
Click to expand...

You lost me, "I try to keep the cue ABOVE my wrists.." Are you talking about keeping the cue above your wrist on your bridge hand? On the hand holding the cue everyone's wrist is above the cue.

Can you clarify in more detail what you are saynig here?

From the vid of you shooting, I notice that you often stroking the cue doward with the tip below the butt and not leve to the slate - with great results.

Thanks.
 
CJ Wiley

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
LAMas said:
You lost me, "I try to keep the cue ABOVE my wrists.." Are you talking about keeping the cue above your wrist on your bridge hand? On the hand holding the cue everyone's wrist is above the cue.

Can you clarify in more detail what you are saynig here?

From the vid of you shooting, I notice that you often stroking the cue doward with the tip below the butt and not leve to the slate - with great results.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's confusing going back and forth between the tennis example and applying it to the pool cue...I was talking about the hand holding the cue, but as if you had the cue held out if front of you (with the back of the hands pointing towards the ceiling), like a tennis racquet ... I cock my wrist up towards the ceiling in this position, where most conventional methods are either more even or slightly under the wrist ... this is difficult to explain in writing and I don't necessarily advocate it to others, it's just something I do from playing so many other sports....it's just a stronger wrist position, but you may not need that in pool.....I just like the ability to "pin" / "kill" the ball at times and this allows me to execute this more effectively than most other players.
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
OK. I will try cocking my wrist toward the ceiling. It will lock my wrist muscles and make my wrist rigid and free from unconcious sideways movement - that occurs when I hold the cue lightly in the cradle of my hand and just before impact with the CB - I tighten my grasp on the butt moving it sideways a bit.

I may have to hold the weight of the cue with the back finger/s and pinkie to allow the cue to remain level and not influenced by the cocked wrist.

Thanks.
 
CJ Wiley

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
AtLarge said:
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that Lee's grip is fundamentally different from yours or that it is different only in that he is at the back of the cue and you are more forward?

And does your golf/tennis comment apply to Lee's grip, your own grip, or both? I have long wondered about your reason(s) for the grip you use. In golf and tennis, the ball is being hit in (roughly) the direction the palm is facing, whereas in pool the ball is being hit (roughly) 90 degrees to that. My conjecture has been that perhaps you are trying to eliminate unnecessary wrist movement for greater consistency.
Click to expand...

I actually use more index/trigger finger pressure ... this influences the front of the wrist....there again, if you don't play tennis here's a picture that shows more about what I'm talking about...and yes, it does eliminate unnecessary wrist motion, but can still generate a LOT of power when needed.

1337-2006_04_19_grip_guide.jpg


1337-2006_04_19_grip_guide_2.jpg
 
CJ Wiley

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
The Cue Ball is the Main Target....OB is secondary

mristea said:
Thx for your answer CJ, indeed I reviewed your DVD (the Creating a solid foundation and Connecting to the line of the shot chapters), and usually I am trying to do all of this with my body.

But still sorry for pushing lol but can you maybe describe what are you actually concentrating your sight during this transition down behind the cue ball? Do you look at the cue ball? Object ball? Shot line? Do you still align your cue to the shot line in the air like you were explaining on your DVD? (similar with what Mika Immonen does for those who did not watch CJ's instructional video)
Click to expand...


Look at the object ball last, but for the first full 3 seconds look at exactly where you want to hit the cue ball....then focus on the object ball and back and forth.....pull the trigger looking at the object ball and watch the object ball go in the pocket while you're raising back up, don't "jump up", just come up at a steady, comfortable pace. I like practicing for 15 minutes by myself NOT taking any practice strokes, this MAKES you get down on the ball more carefully, with better attention to the detail part of precisely hitting the cue ball.
www.cjwiley.com
 
Ratta

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
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cjssecrets4u2 said:
Look at the object ball last, but for the first full 3 seconds look at exactly where you want to hit the cue ball....then focus on the object ball and back and forth.....pull the trigger looking at the object ball and watch the object ball go in the pocket while you're raising back up, don't "jump up", just come up at a steady, comfortable pace. I like practicing for 15 minutes by myself NOT taking any practice strokes, this MAKES you get down on the ball more carefully, with better attention to the detail part of precisely hitting the cue ball.
www.cjwiley.com
Click to expand...

I use this since a long time when working on habits/issues with students. This *exersize* can help and fix several bad habits and also can sharpen the focus.
Excellent :)

lg
Ingo
 
Okie

Okie

Seeker
Silver Member
cjssecrets4u2 said:
Look at the object ball last, but for the first full 3 seconds look at exactly where you want to hit the cue ball....then focus on the object ball and back and forth.....pull the trigger looking at the object ball and watch the object ball go in the pocket while you're raising back up, don't "jump up", just come up at a steady, comfortable pace. I like practicing for 15 minutes by myself NOT taking any practice strokes, this MAKES you get down on the ball more carefully, with better attention to the detail part of precisely hitting the cue ball.
www.cjwiley.com
Click to expand...

Good info! Thank you!

Once looking at the object ball are you focused on a point or the full ball?

3 seconds seems like a really long time...to me. Maybe I need to work on that a bit...

Ken
 
CrazySpecialist

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cjssecrets4u2 said:
I like practicing for 15 minutes by myself NOT taking any practice strokes, this MAKES you get down on the ball more carefully, with better attention to the detail part of precisely hitting the cue ball.
Click to expand...

I use this as a drill sometimes when I practice, but do it for only a few minutes and not at the beginning. I like your idea of starting off with it and doing it for 15 minutes. I think I'll try this in my next practice session this afternoon. I need something to help since I have an APA singles qualifier to play in OK City in 3 weeks.
 
CJ Wiley

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
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Practicing Connection

Okie said:
Good info! Thank you!

Once looking at the object ball are you focused on a point or the full ball?

3 seconds seems like a really long time...to me. Maybe I need to work on that a bit...

Ken
Click to expand...

This is more of a drill, Ken, to amplify the feeling of focusing entirely on the point on the cue ball FIRST....I think we sometimes have a inclination to rush our eyes from the cue ball to the object ball and don't LOCK IN to the connection between the two....I'm more inclined to call it a "connection system" rather than an "aiming system".
 
CJ Wiley

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
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Okie said:
Good info! Thank you!

Once looking at the object ball are you focused on a point or the full ball?

3 seconds seems like a really long time...to me. Maybe I need to work on that a bit...

Ken
Click to expand...


If you want to "get this" once and for all do the following: Practice for 2 hours straight, first by hitting ONLY straight in shots and then you can break, take "Ball in Hand" and run out WITHOUT TAKING ANY PRACTICE STROKES...that's right, get down with your cue CLOSE as you can get it {without touching} to the cue ball and take ONE STROKE EACH TIME (playing shape for the next shot as usual)....no matter how uncomfortable this is DO IT ANYWAY for 2 straight hours and report your progress to me here...then I'll tell you the next step :thumbup:
'The Game is the Teacher'
 
Okie

Okie

Seeker
Silver Member
cjssecrets4u2 said:
If you want to "get this" once and for all do the following: Practice for 2 hours straight, first by hitting ONLY straight in shots and then you can break, take "Ball in Hand" and run out WITHOUT TAKING ANY PRACTICE STROKES...that's right, get down with your cue CLOSE as you can get it {without touching} to the cue ball and take ONE STROKE EACH TIME (playing shape for the next shot as usual)....no matter how uncomfortable this is DO IT ANYWAY for 2 straight hours and report your progress to me here...then I'll tell you the next step :thumbup:
'The Game is the Teacher'
Click to expand...

Will do. It will have to hold until Friday or Sunday to get 4 hours straight but that is no problem. I will stream it to http://justin.tv/0kie/videos/. That will be better than reporting the result. ;)

Thank you!

Ken
 
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