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03-24-2020, 06:04 AM

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Originally Posted by jay helfert View Post
He beat Hopkins in the finals of the World Straight Pool, running 150 and out in something like 21 minutes. Or maybe it was 18.
I believe this to be true but this is really hard to believe! I can't imagine what this must have looked like.
  
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03-24-2020, 06:16 AM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Psy-ops??? Seriously?? What brand of tin-foil is your hat? Alcoa? Reynolds? I've seen a lot of top players play the whole game with the template down. I think you're readin' too much into this.
I never take mine off the table. If its going to be in the way I just move it out of the way.

It's not a distraction.


-H

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I'm really a sh!t pool player and you probably shouldn't listen to any advice I may give.
  
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03-24-2020, 08:29 AM

There are other videos of Filler leaving the template on the table. Apparently it doesn't bother him.
  
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03-24-2020, 09:30 AM

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Originally Posted by jay helfert View Post
I've seen a lot of seriously fast players, and Earl at his best was one of them. He wasn't nearly the fastest though. Two others who played damn good and were a lot faster than Earl were Luc Salvas and Tony Drago. And then there was Machine Gun Lou Butera! Bang, Bang, you're dead! He was far and away the best and fastest of them all. He beat Hopkins in the finals of the World Straight Pool, running 150 and out in something like 21 minutes. Or maybe it was 18. Either way it was ridiculous to be able to play that fast and shoot so straight. Lou would literally race around the table and wait for the cue ball to stop and then shoot with NO practice strokes, and still play perfect shape. And he didn't miss! You had to see it to believe it. All I can say all these years later is that the human mind is the fastest computer there is, still to this day. No computer could analyze all the data that goes into a difficult pool shot and execute it instantly. Remember this, every single pool shot is different. No two shots are exactly the same.

Can you imagine playing someone where you labor over a 9-Ball rack for five minutes to win one game and then your opponent races through five racks in the same amount of time. It can be a little disheartening. I saw Lou gun down some top name players in 9-Ball (he liked to play 20 a game, no more, no less) and make them look silly. He had a big family to feed (seven kids I believe) and no time to waste.
Lou's fast run you refer to was in an exhibition not a tournament.
  
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03-24-2020, 09:32 AM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Lou's fast run you refer to was in an exhibition not a tournament.
It was done in the Final match of a major tournament held in Los Angeles in 1971 or 1972. Fred Whelan produced the event for several years in a row and all the top players came out to play in it. I was there!


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03-24-2020, 09:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay helfert View Post
It was done in the Final match of a major tournament held in Los Angeles in 1971 or 1972. Fred Whelan produced the event for several years in a row and all the top players came out to play in it. I was there!
From Lou's wikipedia page:

His nickname, "Machine Gun Lou", derives from his stunning the crowd and fellow competitors by running 150-and-out in straight pool in 21 minutes against Allen Hopkins in 1973.[1]
In 1973, he won his first World Championship. Lou earned his famous nickname that same year when, in an exhibition with Allen Hopkins, he ran 150 straight balls in just 21 minutes.
  
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03-24-2020, 11:04 AM

Why bother moving it if it dosnt distract you. If you are already focused on the run at hand, why distract your self by stopping your thought process to move something that wont affect your runout anyway. Dont think its an in your face move, he most likely dosnt move it while playing alone, so why boyher if you have an opponent?
  
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03-24-2020, 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyone View Post
In these heady days of conspiracy theories Ö well, hereís my contribution:

Leaving the rack on the table was an in-your-face gesture to Aranas. A mental middle-finger to an opponent. ďIím so superior that even physical distractions canít Ö um, distract me.Ē

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03-24-2020, 11:41 AM

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Originally Posted by jay helfert View Post
It was done in the Final match of a major tournament held in Los Angeles in 1971 or 1972. Fred Whelan produced the event for several years in a row and all the top players came out to play in it. I was there!
I just did a little digging and based on what i found Lou didn't win one of Whalen's events. They had four: Ed Kelley one the fist one in '69, Crane won in '70-'72 and Ray Martin won in '71. Lou was runner-up in '72. It was held at what was the Elks Club now the MacArthur Park Hotel.
  
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03-24-2020, 11:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Duane Remick View Post
I watched some of the Quarantine 10-Ball Match between Filler and James Aranas. What a spanking! When Filler hits a certain gear, itís like he canít race around the table fast enough to get to the next shot.

I was watching an old straight pool vid....
"One of the commentators stated the same thing about Willie Mosconi-
"Once Willie got in stroke,
he would practically be running around the table to shoot"
I sure would like to see some OLD Mosconi vids
I saw Willie run 185 in an exhibition in NJ, and he was in continual motion, only stopping to shoot the next shot. He just knew where the cueball would be and would "run" there to meet it. Beautiful to watch-

-dj


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03-24-2020, 11:52 AM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
I just did a little digging and based on what i found Lou didn't win one of Whalen's events. They had four: Ed Kelley one the fist one in '69, Crane won in '70-'72 and Ray Martin won in '71. Lou was runner-up in '72. It was held at what was the Elks Club now the MacArthur Park Hotel.
It may not have been in the Finals, but it definitely was during the tournament. I just put a call in to Allen Hopkins. He will remember better than me. I was a referee at that tournament for the last two years. It may have happened in the 1971 event that Ray Martin won, but I still think it was the year that Lou finished second. I'm going to do some digging myself.


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Last edited by jay helfert; 03-24-2020 at 07:16 PM.
  
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03-24-2020, 11:55 AM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
I just did a little digging and based on what i found Lou didn't win one of Whalen's events. They had four: Ed Kelley one the fist one in '69, Crane won in '70-'72 and Ray Martin won in '71. Lou was runner-up in '72. It was held at what was the Elks Club now the MacArthur Park Hotel.
Looks like your info might have come from this thread on OnePocket.org: http://onepocket.org/forum/index.php...d-whalen.2317/

I thought Jay might like to read it and see if he agrees with what is there.

[It's also possible that Lou won super-fast matches like that more than once.]
  
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03-24-2020, 11:59 AM

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Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
Looks like your info might have come from this thread on OnePocket.org: http://onepocket.org/forum/index.php...d-whalen.2317/

I thought Jay might like to read it and see if he agrees with what is there.

[It's also possible that Lou won super-fast matches like that more than once.]
That's what i'm thinking too. All his matches were at warp speed.
  
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03-24-2020, 12:18 PM

I watched most if not all of that set. I may have fallen asleep a few racks! But I do remember on one rack towards the end of the rack Fuller had to play a touchy shot by the magic rack or what ever you want to call it. He did take the time to move it then. So I would say its safe to say heís only going to move it if he feels its going to be a problem.

With that being said my personal feeling is if your going to use one you should remove directly after the break. Because Iíve personally seen both cueball and object ball affected by the rack. Itís not a lot but this is a game where a fraction of an inch makes a world of a difference. So personally I remove it.


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jay helfert
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03-24-2020, 12:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
Looks like your info might have come from this thread on OnePocket.org: http://onepocket.org/forum/index.php...d-whalen.2317/

I thought Jay might like to read it and see if he agrees with what is there.

[It's also possible that Lou won super-fast matches like that more than once.]
Thanks for this. I knew Fred Whalen well, even visited him at his mansion on Franklin Ave. in East Hollywood. He was a many time California state champion at Straight Pool. He made a lot of money in the casino business using large ships that he took six miles off shore where gambling was legal. I knew about his son Jack, who got ambushed in 1959. They say he was the toughest guy in L.A. and never carried a gun. He was not part of the gangster clan and they hated him for that. They shot him up in a phone booth one night. There is no way out!

I think that Fred's tournaments continued in 1973 and 1974, and were held at the American Legion Hall in Hollywood. They were Straight Pool and 9-Ball. I saw all the top hustlers out here back then. I think Lou Butera won the Straight Pool at one of these events and that may have been the one where he ran the 150 on Allen. I will find out. I'm trying to get hold of Sal Butera also. I know I was at the tournament where the 21 minute match happened, just can't remember what year.


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