A family of drills based on running racks

Bob Jewett said:

See my articles in Billiards Digest for some more details.

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Bob,

Could you please post those here? I would also like to link to them in the video I am finishing up today.

Thanks,
Dave

I’m going to try this soon, but wanted to recommend or get thoughts that all balls pocketed on the break be spotted.

Keeping them down sort of defeats the drill purpose of sinking the required number of balls. (Of course this is whether one thinks sinking balls on the break is skill or luck)

Bob Jewett said:

The idea was to have more variety than a simple ghost range. I also wanted a set of drills that worked better for the very new beginners that wasn't simply set up shots in fixed positions (which is sort of the standard now) so that the student would have more of the feel of being in a game situation.

I think it's good to have a variety of requirements to get the student thinking about various strategies. See my articles in Billiards Digest for some more details.

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Sounds good.

I did like the challenge.

cjr3559 said:

I’m going to try this soon, but wanted to recommend or get thoughts that all balls pocketed on the break be spotted.

Keeping them down sort of defeats the drill purpose of sinking the required number of balls. (Of course this is whether one thinks sinking balls on the break is skill or luck)

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Yeah I think that might be a good improvement as in the video that was posted making a ball seemed to trivialize some of the levels since there were not many balls to begin with.

I’d vote no to respotting balls on the break, even if a foul occurred.

I’m going to try this today.

I’m about 50/50 on the 6-ball ghost, so I’m guessing I’ll end up somewhere around 9 or 10, but we’ll see.

Maybe not the right place but I have been thinking that some of these drills come somewhat close to a game that does not exist but might be better for television. It's kind of sad in the snooker is AWESOME on TV but pool is generally terrible.

In the middle of a session, and this drill system is really good. I like the progressive nature, especially increasing the number of balls as you move up.

There’s a danger of getting a little over confident on the lower levels and a tendency to get a little careless, but once I hit my true level of ability things sharpened up and started to come together nicely.

Not going to share my level as it’s a bit embarrassing but at least it’s not ‘novice’.

I do wonder if clearing a level only twice in three attempts is enough to graduate to the next level. I’m thinking 7 or 8 times out of 10 would be a more accurate assessment of your skills.

Nice work on this!

dr_dave said:

Thank you for the input! I agree with your comments. Bob and I discussed things and settled on the new version below, which I think addresses your concerns and makes all of the lower levels a little easier. Being able to take the extra BIHs when you want can be very helpful. It might also involve more strategic thinking, which we like. There is still BIH after the break on every level.

1. 6 balls, pocket OBs directly with no CB – lower novice
2. 6 balls, any order, BIH on every shot – mid novice
3. 6 balls, any order, 3 extra BIHs – upper novice
4. 6 balls, any order, 2 extra BIHs – lower beginner (D-)
5. 6 balls, any order, 1 extra BIH – mid beginner (D)
6. 6 balls+8 (3 solids, 3 stripes, 8), 8-ball rules – upper beginner (D+)
7. 9 balls, any order, 1 extra BIH – lower intermediate (C-)
8. 9 balls (4 solids, 4 stripes, 8), 8-ball rules – mid intermediate (C)
9. 15 balls, any order, 2 extra BIHs – upper intermediate (C+)
10. 6 balls, in order – lower advanced (B-)
11. 15 balls, any order – mid advanced (B)
12. 15 balls, 8-ball rules – upper advanced (B+)
13. 9 balls (4 solids, 4 stripes, 8), 8-ball rules, then remaining balls in order – expert tournament player (A-)
14. 9 balls, 9-ball rules – master semi pro (A)
15. 15 balls, 8-ball rules, then remaining balls in order – touring pro (A+/AA)
16. 15 balls, in order – world class pro (A++/AAA)

I hope others try it out and give us more feedback before we set it in stone.

Thanks again,
Dave

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Ok, tried it yesterday. For reference, I’m a 510ish banger and played on a 9’ blue label Diamond.

1. W 3/0
2. W 3/0
3. W 3/0
4. W 3/0
5. W 3/0
6. W 2/1
7. W 3/0
8. W 2/1
9. L 1/2 *
10. W 2/1 **
11. L 1/2
12. L 0/3
13. L 0/3
14. L 0/3 Missed the 9-ball on game 2.
15. L 0/3 ***
16. L 0/3 ***

* Immediately played again and won 3/0. This is tricky because I lost sight of the goal of beating the challenge the first time and didn’t take advantage of the extra BIH’s when I should’ve. Once I realized that, it became easier. A good test because it drives some strategic thought.

** I’m about 50/50 on the 6-ball ghost, so this is about where I thought I would end up.

*** Hahahahahahaha...! Yeah. No.


Overall a fun challenge.

cjr3559 said:

In the middle of a session, and this drill system is really good. I like the progressive nature, especially increasing the number of balls as you move up.

There’s a danger of getting a little over confident on the lower levels and a tendency to get a little careless, but once I hit my true level of ability things sharpened up and started to come together nicely.

Not going to share my level as it’s a bit embarrassing but at least it’s not ‘novice’.

I do wonder if clearing a level only twice in three attempts is enough to graduate to the next level. I’m thinking 7 or 8 times out of 10 would be a more accurate assessment of your skills.

Nice work on this!

Click to expand...

I'm glad you like it. I agree that a larger number of racks at one level might provide a better measure, but I prefer the progressive nature with fewer trials. Your level might go up and down more, but that will give you more variety. Regardless, your ending point should be the same either way.

Regards,
Dave

David in FL said:

Ok, tried it yesterday. For reference, I’m a 510ish banger and played on a 9’ blue label Diamond.

1. W 3/0
2. W 3/0
3. W 3/0
4. W 3/0
5. W 3/0
6. W 2/1
7. W 3/0
8. W 2/1
9. L 1/2 *
10. W 2/1 **
11. L 1/2
12. L 0/3
13. L 0/3
14. L 0/3 Missed the 9-ball on game 2.
15. L 0/3 ***
16. L 0/3 ***

* Immediately played again and won 3/0. This is tricky because I lost sight of the goal of beating the challenge the first time and didn’t take advantage of the extra BIH’s when I should’ve. Once I realized that, it became easier. A good test because it drives some strategic thought.

** I’m about 50/50 on the 6-ball ghost, so this is about where I thought I would end up.

*** Hahahahahahaha...! Yeah. No.


Overall a fun challenge.

Click to expand...

Nice job. How many games do you have in Fargo? I don't have any, and the people I play even with have like 30 and range from about 500 to 575 (with 30 games).

David in FL said:

Ok, tried it yesterday. For reference, I’m a 510ish banger and played on a 9’ blue label Diamond.

1. W 3/0
2. W 3/0
3. W 3/0
4. W 3/0
5. W 3/0
6. W 2/1
7. W 3/0
8. W 2/1
9. L 1/2 *
10. W 2/1 **
11. L 1/2
12. L 0/3
13. L 0/3
14. L 0/3 Missed the 9-ball on game 2.
15. L 0/3 ***
16. L 0/3 ***

* Immediately played again and won 3/0. This is tricky because I lost sight of the goal of beating the challenge the first time and didn’t take advantage of the extra BIH’s when I should’ve. Once I realized that, it became easier. A good test because it drives some strategic thought.

** I’m about 50/50 on the 6-ball ghost, so this is about where I thought I would end up.

*** Hahahahahahaha...! Yeah. No.


Overall a fun challenge.

Click to expand...

Thanks for trying it out. I’m glad you liked it.

Regards,
Dave

iusedtoberich said:

Nice job. How many games do you have in Fargo? I don't have any, and the people I play even with have like 30 and range from about 500 to 575 (with 30 games).

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Only 285 games. It really hasn’t varied much in the 2 years since i started playing in a league and tournaments that reported though...

I finally finished my video dealing with the Runout Drill System (RDS). Here it is:

I also revised the supporting document. Here it is:

Enjoy,
Dave

dr_dave said:

I finally finished my video dealing with the Runout Drill System (RDS). Here it is:

RUNOUT DRILL SYSTEM (RDS) … A New Way to Practice, Teach, and Learn
​

I also revised the supporting document. Here it is:

BU Exam IV - Runout Drill System (RDS) instructions and diagrams
​

Enjoy,
Dave

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As described in the RDS document, the recommended format for RDS is the progressive/adaptive approach where you go up or down through the levels based on your performance. Your final level at the end of your session gives you your player rating.

iusedtoberich and others have done a different format where you run through all 16 levels, attempting 3 racks of each, regardless of how you do. I think that is also a fun format for well-rounded practice; although, it might be frustrating for low-rating players and boring for high-rating players.

Bob and I also discussed a score-based system. Here is what I added to the document for this format:

An alternative RDS format is a scored approach, where you start with 100 points and attempt to run one rack at each level, deducting points left on the table after each miss or foul.

What do you guys think of this?

Thanks,
Dave

I watched your video, good job making it.

Did you try the 15 ball rotation rack at all? I got to the 10 ball on one of my attempts and felt almost like Efren, ha ha. I was pissed my camera crapped out and stopped at the 4 ball.

I'll have to say your style of play seems off to me. When you have shallow angle cut shots you play them with dead draw or dead follow according to your CB graphic. You could have gotten nearly identical CB paths with some spin on the CB. I know there is a lot of debate on this topic, but I don't think any pros would play with dead draw/follow when a tip of spin would get them the same result.

Also on a few shots you stated you overhit the CB, and then made a good recovery stroke to get back in line. It looked to me, that you actually landed perfectly, and if the CB was not "overhit" you would have had to pound it for the next shot. Now, I have a ton of experience with filming my play and then watching the video, and I KNOW way more than most people that the camera distorts things tremendously, no matter the camera angle, lens type, if its me filming, or if its Matchroom filming. So if you tell me it is camera angle making the angle look off, I will 100% believe it.

PS, good work, you know I like picking on you

iusedtoberich said:

I watched your video, good job making it.

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Thanks! It was fun, except for all of the tedious editing and production stuff.

iusedtoberich said:

Did you try the 15 ball rotation rack at all?

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No. I didn't because I knew I already had lots of footage of previous 15-ball rotation runs I had done. I was also excited to get the video out as soon as possible.

iusedtoberich said:

I got to the 10 ball on one of my attempts and felt almost like Efren, ha ha. I was pissed my camera crapped out and stopped at the 4 ball.

Click to expand...

I know the feeling. When I was filming level 15, I was proud of myself for making it through most of the rack and then I miscued on an easy draw shot. I think I was patting myself on the back too much for the long inside follow shot a few balls before that. Live and learn.

iusedtoberich said:

I'll have to say your style of play seems off to me. When you have shallow angle cut shots you play them with dead draw or dead follow according to your CB graphic. You could have gotten nearly identical CB paths with some spin on the CB. I know there is a lot of debate on this topic, but I don't think any pros would play with dead draw/follow when a tip of spin would get them the same result.

Click to expand...

I'll need to look back at that. I generally use both techniques depending on which feels right at the time. On another day, I might have played them all differently.

iusedtoberich said:

Also on a few shots you stated you overhit the CB, and then made a good recovery stroke to get back in line. It looked to me, that you actually landed perfectly, and if the CB was not "overhit" you would have had to pound it for the next shot. Now, I have a ton of experience with filming my play and then watching the video, and I KNOW way more than most people that the camera distorts things tremendously, no matter the camera angle, lens type, if its me filming, or if its Matchroom filming. So if you tell me it is camera angle making the angle look off, I will 100% believe it.

Click to expand...

I'll need to look back at that also, but I do remember leaving angles much larger than I wanted and needed several times.

iusedtoberich said:

PS, good work, you know I like picking on you

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Thanks. I expect no less. :grin-square:

Seriously, though, I appreciate all your input and participation throughout this discussion. It was helpful.

Catch you later,
Dave

PS: What do you think of the progressive approach vs. the scored approach?

dr_dave said:

...snip...
PS: What do you think of the progressive approach vs. the scored approach?

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I only did each single one 3 tries each just to test them all. I had not even realized at the time that you were planning on doing plus 2 equals advance, plus 1= stay, and plus 0 = go back. It was just a test to see if things were in the proper order, not to rate my play.

Now that you have it more refined, if I was doing it to see where I stand according to this system, I'd probably do it like you recommend, plus 0, plus 1, plus 2. I would only do it the other way again (with maybe 5 or 10 racks each), to see if I thought the order was still off.

The score system from 100 is too complicated for me. That involves writing things down and keeping track.

And now that I write this, I can see for a practice drill, (as opposed to a rating drill), it would actually be beneficial to do all the racks, or at least a few levels past where the rating end up settling at. This is so a player can practice at a harder level for a brief period.