Top 10 Things You Need to Know about THROW

dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
FYI, I just posted a new two-part video series demonstrating the Top 10 Things You Need to Know about THROW. Here it is:


The topics covered (with YouTube time-stamps) include:

Part 1:
Introduction to Throw [0:00]
---- cut-induced throw (CIT) [0:03]
---- spin-induced throw (SIT) [0:32]
1. No Throw with Gearing Outside Spin [1:52]
---- example [2:35]
---- should you use gearing outside spin on every shot? [3:06]
2. Throw Can Often be Ignored [3:42]
---- example [4:07]
3. Aim Thinner to Account for CIT [5:00]
---- example [5:31]
4. Shots with the Most Throw [6:11]
---- slow-roll shot and alternatives [6:17]
---- spin shots [8:34]
Wrap-Up [9:26]

Part 2:
Intro [0:00]
5. Frozen and Small-Gap Combos [1:04]
---- small gap [1:21]
---- large gap [2:07]
---- 3/8" gap [2:29]
---- frozen combo throw [2:57]
---- cut-induced spin [3:42]
6. Maximum Throw [4:27]
7. Maximum CIT [4:51]
---- speed effects [4:51]
---- cut angle effects [5:03]
---- examples [5:25]
8. Maximum SIT [6:23]
---- examples [7:09]
---- impossible cut [7:57]
9. Follow and Draw Reduce Throw [8:32]
10. Cling/Skid/Kick [9:30]
---- follow examples [10:35]
Wrap-Up [11:27]

Please check them out and let me know what you think. I worked longer and harder on these YouTube videos than any other I have ever done, so I hope people enjoy and benefit from them. I look forward to your feedback, comments, and questions.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
These videos are getting a lot fewer views than normal, and I am a little surprised. I personally think the info in these videos is very important and useful.

Why do you guys think the view numbers are down? Is the word "throw" in the title scaring people away? Maybe only advanced players are interested?

Thanks,
Dave


dr_dave said:
FYI, I just posted a new two-part video series demonstrating the Top 10 Things You Need to Know about THROW. Here it is:


The topics covered (with YouTube time-stamps) include:

Part 1:
Introduction to Throw [0:00]
---- cut-induced throw (CIT) [0:03]
---- spin-induced throw (SIT) [0:32]
1. No Throw with Gearing Outside Spin [1:52]
---- example [2:35]
---- should you use gearing outside spin on every shot? [3:06]
2. Throw Can Often be Ignored [3:42]
---- example [4:07]
3. Aim Thinner to Account for CIT [5:00]
---- example [5:31]
4. Shots with the Most Throw [6:11]
---- slow-roll shot and alternatives [6:17]
---- spin shots [8:34]
Wrap-Up [9:26]

Part 2:
Intro [0:00]
5. Frozen and Small-Gap Combos [1:04]
---- small gap [1:21]
---- large gap [2:07]
---- 3/8" gap [2:29]
---- frozen combo throw [2:57]
---- cut-induced spin [3:42]
6. Maximum Throw [4:27]
7. Maximum CIT [4:51]
---- speed effects [4:51]
---- cut angle effects [5:03]
---- examples [5:25]
8. Maximum SIT [6:23]
---- examples [7:09]
---- impossible cut [7:57]
9. Follow and Draw Reduce Throw [8:32]
10. Cling/Skid/Kick [9:30]
---- follow examples [10:35]
Wrap-Up [11:27]

Please check them out and let me know what you think. I worked longer and harder on these YouTube videos than any other I have ever done, so I hope people enjoy and benefit from them. I look forward to your feedback, comments, and questions.

Enjoy,
Dave
Click to expand...
 
skip100

skip100

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Throw seems to be the red-headed stepchild of pool instruction and self-instruction - which is strange when you consider that lack of ability or knowledge of the subject may be the single most important factor holding the largest number of avid players back from getting to the next level.


The series of shots at 5 minute mark is an amazing example of this phenomenon. Great camerawork, along with pointing out how the striped ball wobbles off.
 
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dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
skip100 said:
Throw seems to be the red-headed stepchild of pool instruction and self-instruction - which is strange when you consider that lack of ability or knowledge of the subject may be the single most important factor holding the largest number of avid players back from getting to the next level.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Throw and its intricacies are often ignored or misunderstood, even by many top players.

skip100 said:
The series of shots at 5 minute mark is an amazing example of this phenomenon. Great camerawork, along with pointing out how the striped ball wobbles off.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I really like that section in the Part 1 video also.

Thanks for the comments,
Dave
 
S

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dr. Dave - Thank you for your continuing excellent work. The fact that you do this without charge, for the betterment of the game and the enjoyment of fellow players, is remarkable.

One question: I’m curious why you did not address combining CIT and SIT, whether to offset one or the other fully or partially, or to increase or maximize throw. Yes, you did speak about offset in two contexts - using gearing effect SIT to offset CIT, and the relationship of cut and throw in combination play. But the use of more SIT than gearing effect SIT, in combination with CIT, is not covered. I would be interested in your knowledge about the relationships, relative impacts, and predominance of each of the two types of throw depending on the variables - particularly with frozen or near-frozen combination shots.

Thanks again, very much.
 
pwd72s

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
I enjoyed them...but just didn't "get" much of it. I need to watch one shot at a time, while at a table...practice until it sinks in. Very much still a novice making baby steps. These videos tell me just how much of a novice I am.

Watching pro matches, I assume the pros just know throw and adjust without really thinking about it? Meaning, after hitting a million balls, they just know where the cue ball and object balls will end up?
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Seth C. said:
Dr. Dave - Thank you for your continuing excellent work. The fact that you do this without charge, for the betterment of the game and the enjoyment of fellow players, is remarkable.
Click to expand...
You’re welcome ... and thank you for the supportive words. I aim to swerve. :grin-square:

Seth C. said:
One question: I’m curious why you did not address combining CIT and SIT, whether to offset one or the other fully or partially, or to increase or maximize throw. Yes, you did speak about offset in two contexts - using gearing effect SIT to offset CIT, and the relationship of cut and throw in combination play. But the use of more SIT than gearing effect SIT, in combination with CIT, is not covered. I would be interested in your knowledge about the relationships, relative impacts, and predominance of each of the two types of throw depending on the variables - particularly with frozen or near-frozen combination shots.
Click to expand...
CIT and SIT are not really separate effects that add or subtract. If there is inside spin or less outside spin than the gearing amount, throw is due to the cut (CIT); and if there is more outside spin than the gearing amount, throw is due to (SIT). FYI, these topics are covered in detail in the answer to the 3rd question here:

answers to questions about throw

and here:

gearing outside spin effects

Enjoy,
Dave
 
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dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
pwd72s said:
I enjoyed them...but just didn't "get" much of it. I need to watch one shot at a time, while at a table...practice until it sinks in. Very much still a novice making baby steps. These videos tell me just how much of a novice I am.
Click to expand...
These videos might take multiple viewings, and practicing the shots is a great idea. But this topic is honestly a little advanced for novice players.

pwd72s said:
Watching pro matches, I assume the pros just know throw and adjust without really thinking about it? Meaning, after hitting a million balls, they just know where the cue ball and object balls will end up?
Click to expand...
This is mostly true. They have excellent intuition from countless years of successful practice and experience. Although, even pros miss shots at times due to inadequate compensation for throw. In fact, I think many (if not most) pro misses are due to a failure to compensate for throw.

Good luck with your game,
Dave
 
B

brigeton

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just watched it. It's very informative. On most of my shots I don't consciously think about throw but it's probably why I miss some shots that I don't shoot as often and need to practice.
 
S

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
You’re welcome ... and thank you for the supportive words. I aim to swerve. :grin-square:

CIT and SIT are not really separate effects that add or subtract. If there is less spin than the gearing amount, throw is due to the cut (CIT); and if there is more spin than the gearing amount, throw is due to (SIT). FYI, these topics are covered in detail in the answer to the 3rd question here:

answers to questions about throw

and here:

gearing outside spin effects

Enjoy,
Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

Let’s consider a scenario involving two frozen balls, the 1 ball and the 9 ball, located some distance from a given corner pocket, perhaps in the center of the table. The player wishes to pocket the 9 ball in that corner pocket by striking the 1 ball. The 1 ball and 9 ball are lined up such that the 9 ball is not dead, but is instead going to miss by some inches if there were a line of centers, no spin hit. Assuming the player is on the side of the 1 ball that allows him to impart the desired CIT on the 9 ball, but assuming also that maximum CIT will not throw the 9 ball enough to pocket it, wouldn’t the player be able to throw the 9 ball closer to the pocket (or perhaps make it, or even miss it on the far side, all depending on the variables) by adding inside English (assuming, in this example, a full hit on the 1 ball)?

Thanks in advance for your input.
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
brigeton said:
I just watched it. It's very informative. On most of my shots I don't consciously think about throw but it's probably why I miss some shots that I don't shoot as often and need to practice.
Click to expand...
I think this is the case for most people. Although, many people don't know why they miss shots and this limits their learning and development, IMO.

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Seth C. said:
Thanks for the reply.

Let’s consider a scenario involving two frozen balls, the 1 ball and the 9 ball, located some distance from a given corner pocket, perhaps in the center of the table. The player wishes to pocket the 9 ball in that corner pocket by striking the 1 ball. The 1 ball and 9 ball are lined up such that the 9 ball is not dead, but is instead going to miss by some inches if there were a line of centers, no spin hit. Assuming the player is on the side of the 1 ball that allows him to impart the desired CIT on the 9 ball, but assuming also that maximum CIT will not throw the 9 ball enough to pocket it, wouldn’t the player be able to throw the 9 ball closer to the pocket (or perhaps make it, or even miss it on the far side, all depending on the variables) by adding inside English (assuming, in this example, a full hit on the 1 ball)?

Thanks in advance for your input.
Click to expand...
Again, these effects do not add. Adding inside spin actually reduces the amount of throw for the same reason adding more spin to a straight shot reduces throw, as demonstrated and discussed in my Part 2 throw video. For more info, see the answer to the 3rd question (and the linked resources) here:

answers to questions about throw

Also see the inside spin effects resource page.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
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S

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
Again, these effects do not add. Adding inside spin actually reduces the amount of throw for the same reason adding more spin to a straight shot reduces throw, as demonstrated and discussed in my Part 2 throw video. For more info, see the answer to the 3rd question (and the linked resources) here:

answers to questions about throw

Enjoy,
Dave
Click to expand...

Yes, I blew it by saying “inside English.” Please ignore that entirely. What I meant to say/describe is “transferred gearing English” that would throw the 9 ball in the direction of the corner pocket in question. Maybe there is a semantics hangup here? Do you disagree with the thought that maximum throw of the 9 ball would result from causing the 1 ball to rub against the 9 ball, with the 1 ball having been impacted by a spinning CB? (Obviously the rubbing and transferred spin (spin transferred from the CB through the 1 ball to the 9 ball) must be in the desired directions).
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Seth C. said:
Yes, I blew it by saying “inside English.” Please ignore that entirely. What I meant to say/describe is “transferred gearing English” that would throw the 9 ball in the direction of the corner pocket in question. Maybe there is a semantics hangup here? Do you disagree with the thought that maximum throw of the 9 ball would result from causing the 1 ball to rub against the 9 ball, with the 1 ball having been impacted by a spinning CB? (Obviously the rubbing and transferred spin (spin transferred from the CB through the 1 ball to the 9 ball) must be in the desired directions).
Click to expand...
The direction of throw depends on the direction of the rubbing. Maximum throw occurs with just the right amount of rubbing speed. Less rubbing gives less throw, and faster rubbing also gives less throw. For a detailed explanation, see throw speed effects.

Regards,
Dave
 
S

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
The direction of throw depends on the direction of the rubbing. Maximum throw occurs with just the right amount of rubbing speed. Less rubbing gives less throw, and faster rubbing also gives less throw. For a detailed explanation, see throw speed effects.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Yes, but what about the application of spin? Are you saying that, assuming one has already, and properly, set up to maximize friction (and will be striking the CB at the speed that will maximize throw), it makes no difference, in a frozen ball combination scenario, whether spin is applied or not?
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Seth C. said:
Yes, but what about the application of spin? Are you saying that, assuming one has already, and properly, set up to maximize friction (and will be striking the CB at the speed that will maximize throw), it makes no difference, in a frozen ball combination scenario, whether spin is applied or not?
Click to expand...
Spin on the CB definitely affects the rubbing direction and rubbing speed between the frozen balls. Therefore, it does affect the amount of throw. This is demonstrated and discussed at the 3:42 point in the Part 2 video.

Check it out,
Dave
 
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