Top 10 BANK and KICK Shot Aiming SYSTEMS

dr_dave

dr_dave

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FYI, I just posted a new video that demonstrates the 10 most useful systems for aiming bank and kick shots:



Some of the systems are “diamond systems” that use the markings on the rails as references. Others are completely visual and require no diamonds or numbers. All of them are useful to know in different situations, especially if you do not yet have perfect intuition judging bank and kick shots.

Systems covered (with timestamp links) include:
1. Contact Point Mirror Kick [0:30]
2. Midpoint Parallel Shift Kick [2:35]
3. 2-to-1 Rolling Kick [3:59]
4. Rolling Kick Speed Adjustments [6:20]
5. Visual Equal-Distance Kick [7:37]
6. Mirror Kick [9:31]
7. Banks Using Kicking Systems [10:35]
8. 1/3-More-than-Twice Sliding Bank [11:07]
9. Plus System Kick [14:17]
10. Corner-5 System Kick [15:58]
Wrap-Up [18:32]

Please check it out and let me know what you think. As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
S

shasta777

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Dr Dave... Excellent as always... :)

This really helps layout all the different type of systems out there for banks & kicks... as players
grew up learning differently on how to play, this certainly helps. Now those who want can check
or learn which ever system they feel is best for them.

As for me... the more systems I can learn the better... Thanks again for all you do & for helping
explain so many different system to choose from... :)
 
dr_dave

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shasta777 said:
Dr Dave... Excellent as always... :)
Click to expand...
Thank you!

shasta777 said:
This really helps layout all the different type of systems out there for banks & kicks... as players grew up learning differently on how to play, this certainly helps. Now those who want can check or learn which ever system they feel is best for them.

As for me... the more systems I can learn the better... Thanks again for all you do & for helping explain so many different system to choose from... :)
Click to expand...
If one wants to be effective over a wide range of kick and bank shots, a single "system" is not adequate; although, it is good to learn one at a time. I personally use all 10 of these systems when each is called for in different game situations.

Thanks for watching,
Dave
 
Scratch85

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Mirror Kick

Dave, excellent as always.

With the mirror system, when the full mirror image places the target spot 3 or 4 feet out into space, it can get hard for me to visualize. I frequently find it useful to use a parallel shift, from the cue ball, object ball half-way-point to the point on the rail/cushion/groove, instead of using the full mirror image. It keeps my visual frame completely on the table.
 
dr_dave

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Scratch85 said:
Dave, excellent as always.
Click to expand...
Thanks.

Scratch85 said:
With the mirror system, when the full mirror image places the target spot 3 or 4 feet out into space, it can get hard for me to visualize. I frequently find it useful to use a parallel shift, from the cue ball, object ball half-way-point to the point on the rail/cushion/groove, instead of using the full mirror image. It keeps my visual frame completely on the table.
Click to expand...
I should have included that variation. Some people might prefer it in certain situations. In general, I am more accurate with the mirror system since it can be difficult to locate the midpoint accurately, and the parallel shift can also introduce error. Although, it is nice not needing so much room around the table (which might not be available or practical).

This system (midpoint parallel shift) is demonstrated on VEPS-IV (shot 484), applied to bank shots. Also, I just added an illustration and description to the mirror system resource page. Here's what I added:

A related alternative to the mirror system is the midpoint-parallel-shift system illustrated below. You first visualize the midpoint between the CB and OB. Then you place your cue along a line from this midpoint to the OB rail point. Then you parallel-shift this line to the CB for the required line of aim, which is the exact same as the mirror-system line of aim.

kick_through-diamond_mirror_midpoint_shift-1-1024x507.png

Thank you for indirectly encouraging me to do this.

Best regards,
Dave
 
B

bb9ball

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Good job.

I was a bit surprised to not see the method described in the video below(at 58:30). I had seen a few pros use it, most notably Chris Melling, but never knew how it worked until I ran across this video. It is a shortcut to a method described in Byrne's Standard Book of Pool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcMzteXmFXk&t=3510

I also didn't see it in your FAQ for banks and kicks.
 
dr_dave

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Eagleshot said:
Curious why the 10% fast speed adjustment was not included?
Click to expand...
For which of the 10 systems? I assume you are referring to the mirror system, but I am not sure. Could you explain what you mean by the "10% fast speed adjustment?"

Using the rail groove instead of the line of diamonds is an easy way to account for fast speed using any of the rolling-ball systems presented (2-to-1, equal distance, mirror, etc.). For fast speed banks, where the OB is sliding into the cushion, the 1/3 diamond rail-groove adjustment works great.

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave

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dr_dave

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As a general comment, my intention was not to include every known system and variation ... only the Top 10 that I think are the most reliable and most useful. My choices might not be the best for everybody in all situations, but I think my list is good for most people and most situations.

Regards,
Dave
 
Bob Jewett

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dr_dave said:
As a general comment, my intention was not to include every known system and variation ... only the Top 10 that I think are the most reliable and most useful. ...
Click to expand...
For people who would like to see great, steaming piles of kicking/banking systems, The Billiard Atlas in four volumes by Walt Harris will probably be enough. All four can be ordered from his website (run by a friend since Walt died). http://www.billiardsatlas.com/atlas.html

The problem is that he covers dozens of systems but none of them deeply so you will have to spend time with each one and experiment to see how, why, where, and when they work. One fairly well known system he covers is "System Sid" which is an end-rail-first mirror-equivalent system when your target is on the side rail. It can also be used for side-rail first to hit a target on the end rail.
 
dr_dave

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Bob Jewett said:
For people who would like to see great, steaming piles of kicking/banking systems, The Billiard Atlas in four volumes by Walt Harris will probably be enough. All four can be ordered from his website (run by a friend since Walt died). http://www.billiardsatlas.com/atlas.html
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info Bob.

Bob Jewett said:
The problem is that he covers dozens of systems but none of them deeply so you will have to spend time with each one and experiment to see how, why, where, and when they work. One fairly well known system he covers is "System Sid" which is an end-rail-first mirror-equivalent system when your target is on the side rail. It can also be used for side-rail first to hit a target on the end rail.
Click to expand...
That was #11 on my list. For those interested, some info on this system is available here:

Sid System resource page

This is on my future YouTube videos list, but it is fairly low on the list.

Regards,
Dave
 
Tin Man

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Great video, thank you Dave!

I have used the two rail kick system where you parallel shift from the midpoint-pocket line for years. I never knew the nuances of reducing spin from flatter angles. Awesome!

Also, I'm excited to see the visual equal distance kick. I figured this out on my own 5-10 years ago playing one pocket. There is a shot I shoot all the time where the cue ball is near your pocket and there is an object ball on your opponents side of the table equal with the bottom of the stack. The shot is to kick/back-cut a ball towards your pocket and lag the cue ball in the stack. On that shot you must hit the ball or you can sell out, but the thinner you can back cut it the better. It does no good to kick it into the stack and not get a good hook. Anyway, using this system I have become very effective with this shot and I can create outright winning situations routinely. The one thing I emphasize is I use this system aiming at the ghost ball of where I need the cue ball to hit to back cut the ball correctly (as I am not aiming at the center of the ball).

You are also dead on about kicking off a rail when the cue ball is closer to the rail. Much easier to calculate by measuring from the object ball as you said. I'm glad you pointed that out. Another lesson learned from trial and error that could've been avoided if you'd just made this video a few years ago. Oh well, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is now...
 
dr_dave

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Tin Man said:
Great video, thank you Dave!
Click to expand...
Thank you ... and you're welcome!

Tin Man said:
I have used the two rail kick system where you parallel shift from the midpoint-pocket line for years. I never knew the nuances of reducing spin from flatter angles. Awesome!
Click to expand...
There are other ways to adjust, but that seems to work the best for me.

Tin Man said:
Also, I'm excited to see the visual equal distance kick. I figured this out on my own 5-10 years ago playing one pocket. There is a shot I shoot all the time where the cue ball is near your pocket and there is an object ball on your opponents side of the table equal with the bottom of the stack. The shot is to kick/back-cut a ball towards your pocket and lag the cue ball in the stack. On that shot you must hit the ball or you can sell out, but the thinner you can back cut it the better. It does no good to kick it into the stack and not get a good hook. Anyway, using this system I have become very effective with this shot and I can create outright winning situations routinely. The one thing I emphasize is I use this system aiming at the ghost ball of where I need the cue ball to hit to back cut the ball correctly (as I am not aiming at the center of the ball).
Click to expand...
Good point. Regard less of the system you are using, you should always target the point where you want the CB to go. For example, that's how I was able to pocket the 13 in the side using the mirror system at 9:31.

Tin Man said:
You are also dead on about kicking off a rail when the cue ball is closer to the rail. Much easier to calculate by measuring from the object ball as you said. I'm glad you pointed that out. Another lesson learned from trial and error that could've been avoided if you'd just made this video a few years ago. Oh well, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is now...
Click to expand...
Thank you for the comments and feedback.

I appreciate it,
Dave

PS: I now have an interesting urge to plant a tree. :grin:
 
dr_dave

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This video is getting a lot fewer views on YouTube compared to most of my past stuff, and I can't figure out why. I worked hard on this and thought people would like it. Sometimes I am surprised by what people like and dislike, so I am trying to better understand.

Why do you guys think this video is getting low interest?

Is it too much info in too short a time?

Is it just the COVID pandemic and the time of the year making people less interested in pool?

Something else?

Thanks,
Dave

dr_dave said:
FYI, I just posted a new video that demonstrates the 10 most useful systems for aiming bank and kick shots:



Some of the systems are “diamond systems” that use the markings on the rails as references. Others are completely visual and require no diamonds or numbers. All of them are useful to know in different situations, especially if you do not yet have perfect intuition judging bank and kick shots.

Systems covered (with timestamp links) include:
1. Contact Point Mirror Kick [0:30]
2. Midpoint Parallel Shift Kick [2:35]
3. 2-to-1 Rolling Kick [3:59]
4. Rolling Kick Speed Adjustments [6:20]
5. Visual Equal-Distance Kick [7:37]
6. Mirror Kick [9:31]
7. Banks Using Kicking Systems [10:35]
8. 1/3-More-than-Twice Sliding Bank [11:07]
9. Plus System Kick [14:17]
10. Corner-5 System Kick [15:58]
Wrap-Up [18:32]

Please check it out and let me know what you think. As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy,
Dave
Click to expand...
 
MooseKnuckle

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dr_dave said:
This video is getting a lot fewer views on YouTube compared to most of my past stuff, and I can't figure out why. I worked hard on this and thought people would like it. Sometimes I am surprised by what people like and dislike, so I am trying to better understand.

Why do you guys think this video is getting low interest?

Is it too much info in too short a time?

Is it just the COVID pandemic and the time of the year making people less interested in pool?

Something else?

Thanks,
Dave
Click to expand...

I love your work, have watched many times, thank you for the hard work and gifts of knowledge :)

As for youtube views, could it be a metric or algorithm issue within their search function? I see people post complaints all the time about unfair treatment on that platform.

Maybe because your nickname is Doctor you got put in the low rung of the search function. So many Dr's discussing the pandemic etc etc. :confused:
 
dr_dave

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MooseKnuckle said:
I love your work, have watched many times, thank you for the hard work and gifts of knowledge :)
Click to expand...
I'm glad to hear it. Thank you ... and you're welcome.

MooseKnuckle said:
As for youtube views, could it be a metric or algorithm issue within their search function? I see people post complaints all the time about unfair treatment on that platform.

Maybe because your nickname is Doctor you got put in the low rung of the search function. So many Dr's discussing the pandemic etc etc. :confused:
Click to expand...
That is an interested "conspiracy theory."

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

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dr_dave said:
dr_dave said:
FYI, I just posted a new video that demonstrates the 10 most useful systems for aiming bank and kick shots:



Some of the systems are “diamond systems” that use the markings on the rails as references. Others are completely visual and require no diamonds or numbers. All of them are useful to know in different situations, especially if you do not yet have perfect intuition judging bank and kick shots.

Systems covered (with timestamp links) include:
1. Contact Point Mirror Kick [0:30]
2. Midpoint Parallel Shift Kick [2:35]
3. 2-to-1 Rolling Kick [3:59]
4. Rolling Kick Speed Adjustments [6:20]
5. Visual Equal-Distance Kick [7:37]
6. Mirror Kick [9:31]
7. Banks Using Kicking Systems [10:35]
8. 1/3-More-than-Twice Sliding Bank [11:07]
9. Plus System Kick [14:17]
10. Corner-5 System Kick [15:58]
Wrap-Up [18:32]

Please check it out and let me know what you think. As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.
Click to expand...
This video is getting a lot fewer views on YouTube compared to most of my past stuff, and I can't figure out why. I worked hard on this and thought people would like it. Sometimes I am surprised by what people like and dislike, so I am trying to better understand.

Why do you guys think this video is getting low interest?

Is it too much info in too short a time?

Is it just the COVID pandemic and the time of the year making people less interested in pool?

Something else?
Click to expand...
Could it also be that some people are "turned off" by the non-visual "diamond systems" I included that require working with numbers?

Thanks,
Dave
 
freds

freds

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dr_dave said:
Could it also be that some people are "turned off" by the non-visual "diamond systems" I included that require working with numbers?
Click to expand...

Yes, though it might be just the term "system" that turns people off. To some players, "system" conjures up notions of memorizing esoteric numbering algorithms which drain the joy out of the game. (Who, me?) Maybe simply renaming it "methods" instead of "systems" would help in getting people to watch.
 
Last edited:
Scratch85

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The likely problem is that people, in general,are lazy thinkers. And we pool players may be lazier than most.

The title has “aiming system” in it. That creates some disinterest. System 1, System 6 and the system you describe in post #6 are all the same system with different descriptions. I think that is confusing to many.

Because running English, speed and shifts are all variables of kicking and banks, practice is necessary to make systems work. People are looking for quick results and “aha” moments.

Anyone who has played for very long and wanted to improve, has taken a look at one or more diamond systems. Most diamond systems are confusing and require a lot of practice. Your methods in the video are not the complicated ones and are full of knowledge that takes years to figure out, without help.

With all that being said, I think you’re right in thinking it is too much info in one tutorial. Maybe a video for the plus system, another video for the mirror system and another for the visual system.

I think this is a good video and will stand the test of time. It is one that I will go back to when I’m struggling with a kick or bank to remind me what systems are available.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
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