Jay Helfert resigned as Tourney Director at the US Open
- Thread starter bfdlad
- Start date
To add some additional fuel to the fire, this is from Gabe Owen, former US Open champ:
"Mark, can someone give me some insight on why my name was removed from,the list two weeks prior to starting???????????????????????? Pat Patrick Fleming must be way too busy to answer my p.m.s!"
"Mark, can someone give me some insight on why my name was removed from,the list two weeks prior to starting???????????????????????? Pat Patrick Fleming must be way too busy to answer my p.m.s!"
This is just a guess, but the year that Gabe won the US Open, he failed to buy Barry a drink with his winnings?
...another shining example of the pool player mentality.....
JV
JV
Was there a solution for Allen to play?
I thought I would ask Jay, if Barry had come to him respectfully asking how Allen could get into the tournament, (letting Jay handle it as the TD instead of "dictating") what would he have done? However, I think Jay already said that he told Allen he couldn't play, so I guess as far as Jay was concerned, there was no way Allen could play.
I thought I would ask Jay, if Barry had come to him respectfully asking how Allen could get into the tournament, (letting Jay handle it as the TD instead of "dictating") what would he have done? However, I think Jay already said that he told Allen he couldn't play, so I guess as far as Jay was concerned, there was no way Allen could play.
"Mark" who?
Oughtta be throwed out of the game forever
Letting hopkins in after the board was full. Try that in the bars and halls I play in and you get your tires cut at best. Ridiculous.....and a champion like Hopkins shouldda had enough honor to watch instead of play.........crooks
Letting hopkins in after the board was full. Try that in the bars and halls I play in and you get your tires cut at best. Ridiculous.....and a champion like Hopkins shouldda had enough honor to watch instead of play.........crooks
1. If somebody signed up before the tournament filled up, and somehow got removed from the list by accident, then they would "move to the front of the line" and be ahead of anyone on the waiting list IMO. All of the replacements and corrections and filling empty spots from the waiting list must be done before the bracket is made public though. Once the bracket is out, no more replacements can be allowed for any reason because this allows for cheating, and even when cheating does not actually occur it can still give the appearance of cheating which destroys the integrity of the event. The integrity of the event is always more important than any one player.
2. Who cares if a player was paid for his spot? As long as the paid off player did it completely voluntarily and without being pressured then that is between them. It has to be done before the bracket is made public however otherwise no changes for any reason payment or not.
3. Allen already said that since the tournament promoter and owner of the event told him he would be playing he didn't feel the need to check the brackets. I tend to agree with Allen on this one. If the owner says you are in, then I can't say he has an obligation to check later to verify. It might be smart to still do it anyway, but I can't see really faulting him for not doing it after the owner told him he was in. I have a feeling there is a bit more to this than a simple mistake where it was known all along Allen would be playing and his name somehow just accidentally got removed. I'm guessing this was more a case where all along it was known that Allen was not going to be playing and near the last minute that changed and Allen decided to play for whatever reason (after there was already a waiting list) and this of course would change everything. If that is the case then Allen should not be moved ahead of the waiting list.
Once Allen found out that he wasn't on the bracket after it was already finalized and made public (whether Allen had thought he was signed up for many months or whether it was a last minute thing either one) I do find fault with Allen for going along with a bracket change to put him in the event though. He of all people knows how this destroys the integrity of the event. He was in a tough place for sure and was getting screwed but the integrity of the event is always more important than any one player and he knows that. Allen should have just declined to play and had Barry make it up to him some other way. Just because another guy is also wanting to do the wrong thing doesn't make you any less responsible when you go along with it. It just means that you did the wrong thing right alone with him.
So Gabe thinks he was IN and then was removed....Allen was told he was in, and wasn't. Who's taking people out?
And Jeremy said he never told them he was playing, yet his name was there. Is it possible there were just tooo many chiefs taking entries and filing in brackets.
And Jeremy Jones never intended to play?
It seems the only common thread on these 3 guys is they were all past champions. Anyone who paid physical money via Pat's signup, was a non-issue. Was Barry handling the past champions, and not Pat?
In golf tournaments that I have run and played in, past champions were required to send back an RSVP. These were included with the entry forms, when the draw was completed. The other part was, we had an official check-in. The draw was published the night before, but clearly on the entry form, it stated that the played had to check in 60 minutes prior to their tee-time. And also stated, in the event of a no-show, the next player on the wait list was called. There was only one time when the wait list wasn't used, it was the first group out for a US Open Local Qualifier, a player walked onto the tee, and said he was not going to play. The tournament director could have called from the wait list, but it was very early in the morning and no one that was on list was even there yet.
This is the side issue (and the one that created the other issues) that obviously needs to be answered and then addressed so that it can never happen again in the future. The answer appears to be that Barry was handling the past champions (or failing to handle it as it were) although this needs to be confirmed. Whoever was doing it did an absolutely incompetent job in the matter it would appear.
I think that past champions play free is dumb personally. If Barry wants to cover their entry fees out of his own pocket than so be it, but they shouldn't be free where nobody is paying it. But regardless of how it is done if any past champions are going to continue to to get a free entry my suggestion is that for the future they should have a deadline that they have to confirm attendance by, and after that deadline they are removed from the list and lose their guaranteed spot and once the tournament fills up if they try to sign up they go on the waiting list and are treated like everyone else and are never moved ahead of anyone. Whether or not they lose their free entry privileges after the deadline they are to confirm by can be done either way.
For example, they need to confirm by say August 31st if they are playing. If they don't confirm by that date then they lost their guaranteed spot and if they later decide they want to play, they are in if the bracket is not yet full, and still get their free entry if one was being offered that year (or the free entry option can also be off the table at that point too, either way). But if the bracket is already full then they go on the waiting list just like everyone else, and are not moved ahead of anyone else for any reason. If enough spots open up and they are able to get in from the waiting list great, and if not too bad.
This would eliminate all the problems this "past champions play free" has caused and it would eliminate how they never know what champions are actually going to show up until their first matches are called. How anybody could have possibly thought that never knowing if the past champions are coming or not until their first matches are called was an acceptable way to run a tournament is beyond me.
Good stuff!
If Barry had just given Alan back his expense money we would not be having this thread.
And why was it so important for Alan to play that Barry paid "handsomely" for Steelman's departure?
Lack of class on both Barry and Alan's part.
OR, how about Hopkins just says: The TD said no. Not playing. Thanks.
Hopkins is no pool ingenue. He's played in and run major events forever. If he doesn't know it's wrong, then who?
Lou Figueroa
So did anybody there figure out how to do the chart or was it too hard to do?
So did anybody there figure out how to do the chart or was it too hard to do?
Did Jay leave the pencils but take home his erasers?