Lining up the pectoral ?

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
How come it's popular in snooker but not nearly as fanatically taught in pool.

I saw a video on youtube ( from a very controversial instructor whose materials are actually incredibly good ) and have been more conscious of it .
Has made a lot of difference in shooting straight to me.
 

fathomblue

Rusty Shackleford
Silver Member
Can you explain what this is? I've never heard of it. I'd be interested in knowing what it's all about.
 

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
Hi Joey,

there is nothin wrong to use this kind of *lining up* for pool....as long as you re feeling comfortable. You have to think also about, that a snooker-table is higher- and a pool table is lower. So for many ppl the stance like Del Hill and many other snooker coaches are teaching feels a bit uncomfortable for them (more stretching your body).

In my opinion the *basic points* of this stance are similar what i like to show persons, who are trying to still *find* their stance. Next to the "natural alignment" i try to show kind of *snooker lign-up* as an alternative. So they can test, what brings out the best for the pupils/students.

Everybody s stance is a bit unique. It must be comfortable, and you have to be able to execute the stroke straight. Imagine if a guy like Steve Mizerak would try to line up with a perfect snooker-stance.......would be kid of funny, and i swear Miz would feel....kind of strange :p, lol.

lg
Ingo
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

Yes, those are the anchor points I was referring to in another thread. I'm like you Joey in that I don't know why we haven't taught that method as much for pool. Allison plays that way and we all know her success rate over the last 15 years.

However, I think Ingo has a good point about the snooker tables being higher. I also think there is less margin for error with the lighter snooker cues, small diamater tips, small balls, small pockets and larger table.

Without having spent time shooting that way, I wonder if it might prove somewhat restrictive in executing some pool shots. There are shots I've never seen Allison play. In contrast, I think of the Filipino players and how their strokes flow and how with so little effort, they can make the cb dance.
 

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
Agree here Fran,

however- each *good* player should be able to adjust his stance if some kind of different shot would afford it. That s my opinion.

I see it extremly on my own- after i begun without playin one ball for 10 years, i was already forced to use a totally different stance. Eyes went really bad (blind as a drunken smurf, lol) and caused by being 25kg more weight....uhm ^^. Was really hard-i can tell you :)
then, few months later, some pieces in my knee thought about to say good-bye.....-again 8 months, not allowed to put any weight onto the leg. And the procedere begun again-
So i can really tell stories about it- and i if i read often or better said- really often hear players crying because they are afraid of changing their stroke or stance completly.....pffft, it s always JUST about your personal willing-nothin else!

My student from norway i m teaching via internet acted the same way. Terje was really mentally down after i told him, that he would have to change elemental things, if he really wanna increase his game to a higher level. I told him a few things and described him why and how.
After 1-2 days he said yes-- knowing that it could be horrible, lol-
But he managed it successfully, he increased really, got rid of the "most" of his old habits-and became a good PSR, and his stroke is now far straighter and much more repeatable. I m proud of him-
And this just happened because he got the WILLING and the necessary energy to change something.

Sry-went a bit off-topic. Like Fran said- many ppl are often stubborn and also many just dont want to *try* new ways of thinkin. Why do not pick the best of each for yourself? It s all about knowledge and *try and error*.

Open minds would bring everyone much farther.

lg from overseas,

ingo
 

ronscuba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Fran.

As you know, I have quite a bit still to learn, but on this subject, my experiences might be valuable to people on the forum.

I'm a long time causal player. 6 months ago I joined a league for the 1st time and want to improve my play. A few months ago I changed to a snooker stance. I Pretty much do most of what is described in the video except cue chest contact. For me, I sometimes have the cue touching my chest on softer shots. On stronger shots with longer strokes my hand hits my chest so I avoid cue chest contact in those situations. On power shots or breaks I use a standard pool stance.

I find the snooker stance helps my alignment, stroke and consistency. My stroke feels more "slotted" and less loose compared to the typical pool stance. The snooker stance positions are specific so it makes my pre-shot routine easier to repeat.

The only negative for me is my right leg, the straight leg, can get tired. The stance requires some flexibility and after long practice sessions, my leg aches.



Thanks,

Ron
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Fran.

As you know, I have quite a bit still to learn, but on this subject, my experiences might be valuable to people on the forum.

I'm a long time causal player. 6 months ago I joined a league for the 1st time and want to improve my play. A few months ago I changed to a snooker stance. I Pretty much do most of what is described in the video except cue chest contact. For me, I sometimes have the cue touching my chest on softer shots. On stronger shots with longer strokes my hand hits my chest so I avoid cue chest contact in those situations. On power shots or breaks I use a standard pool stance.

I find the snooker stance helps my alignment, stroke and consistency. My stroke feels more "slotted" and less loose compared to the typical pool stance. The snooker stance positions are specific so it makes my pre-shot routine easier to repeat.

The only negative for me is my right leg, the straight leg, can get tired. The stance requires some flexibility and after long practice sessions, my leg aches.



Thanks,

Ron

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the info. I like your stance overall. I think you have a point about the stiff back leg. I've seen Allison play with both -- a stiff back leg and a slightly bent back leg so I think there is some flexibility there. The amount of bending is a variable and hard to gauge, but if you could bend it the same every time, it might be less stressful on the leg.

I bend my back leg slightly, but I know I have to be aware to make sure I don't bend it too much.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
How come it's popular in snooker but not nearly as fanatically taught in pool.

I saw a video on youtube ( from a very controversial instructor whose materials are actually incredibly good ) and have been more conscious of it .
Has made a lot of difference in shooting straight to me.

because they have better structure top to bottom and im not just talking the actual playing. if one dont believe that then you better take the blue pill and jump into the rabbit hole in the top left hand corner pocket of table #1 at the tulsa billiards palace and ask crazy chris.

Once you do that, let me borrow your time machine please.
 

ronscuba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
because they have better structure top to bottom and im not just talking the actual playing. if one dont believe that then you better take the blue pill and jump into the rabbit hole in the top left hand corner pocket of table #1 at the tulsa billiards palace and ask crazy chris.

Once you do that, let me borrow your time machine please.

??????????:scratchhead:
 

fathomblue

Rusty Shackleford
Silver Member
I've been using the snooker stance, minus the cue chinlock (just NOT comfy, due to an eye condition I have)......and wow....it's really straightened my stroke out!

Yes, it does feel a bit weird, but it's becoming less and less so. I shot for about 6 hours last night and after starting out cold....I really warmed up.

I'm looking forward to a solid few months of this under my pec....er, belt.
 

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
Hi fathomblue,

i see this extremly often (what you re feeling in your case). Many players don t pay the necessary attention if it s about fundamentals. And the stance is very important. The way you re ligning up in Snooker have many positive points.
Usualy you have here a *Baseline* -on this so called *Baseline* you have following “Parts” you re aligning on this *Baseline*

- Bridgehand
- Head(vision center)
- shoulder
- forearm/elbow (vertical/90 ° floor)
- rear foot


So far so good- Usualy, if you (better said “I”  ) try to explain and teach a proper stance to a student, i explain him 2 types.

The first would be the stance where you re aligning *naturally*. (Described nicely in the DVD1 of the PAT Series).

Second would be what we call the *Snooker-Stance*. With the knowledge, that snookertables are higher, it depends also a bit on your body. (how far you can go down etc.)
The stance has to be comfortable-that s important. To use a stance where you are fighting each time your ass off, just to *stay so called perfectly* is senseless..and imo wrong.

Both types of stances have one I important thing common:
Imagine a skeleton- furthermore just think about your arm. The forearm is just able to move forwards and backwards. This *ability* of just being able to move it just forward and backward is the positive thing you “will and want” to use.
Here is the chance for your, to receive a repeatable and straight stroke relative easily by using a pendulum stroke.

So all in all, easily described you try to build your stance *around your cue*-in a way so that you can stroke while having enough place to move your forearm completely back and forwards without hindering yourself. Furthermore in that case there is no reason to use your upperarm.
You re just using your biceps and triceps- this the concept of the pendulum stroke- you re just using the benefits of your naturally given anatomical abilities.
The rest is just to find your proper setup/address points.

So- both types of *stances* trying to take the benefit of your forearm which can just go forward and backwards- which stance is the best for you is your choice-and a qualified instructor can help your here for sure.

I hope the English was well enough, so you understand all, how I tried to described it.

Lg from overseas,

Ingo
 

ronscuba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So- both types of *stances* trying to take the benefit of your forearm which can just go forward and backwards- which stance is the best for you is your choice-and a qualified instructor can help your here for sure.

I like to experiment with different styles/concepts as there is no one best style for everyone.

For me, it seems the snooker stance works better because my body, shoulders and feet are more square towards the direction of the shot. This seems to make it more natural for my arm to stroke the cue straight towards the direction of the shot. My arm feels like it is in a "slot" and wants to only stroke straight back and forward.

In comparison, the traditional pool stance of 45 degrees diagonal seems to give my arm and shoulder more looseness to stoke the cue in any direction which made it more difficult to keep my arm and cue on line.
 
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