Pro One Question for Stan

JMW

JMW

Seen Your Member
Silver Member
Mirza said:
How do you find A or C? You split the half or some other method?
When you say: "Then I locate the CTE line", do you just move your eyes to see it, or do you move your whole body, or just head, can you explain that a little bit too?

Thank you in advance.
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Stan is THE man and has answered the question. I am no expert. But I thought I would explain what I do anyway and see what he says.

This is how I see it but I also know people perceive things differently. I will use a left cut as an example. Opposite for right cut.

For a left cut, I start establishing the visual of LCBE to OB aim point A with my LEFT EYE. I move my head/body until I can see aim point A with the left eye AND the CCB to OB right edge appears to my RIGHT eye. Then I freeze, establish the vertical cue ball center line and then swing the cue to center cue ball.

If I am aligned correctly to aim point A (left eye) visual, the CTE visual (right eye) will appear with no head or eye movement. In other words, aim point A is not correct until I can also see the CTE line to right object ball edge. It is really one complete visual perception. The offset is created by starting with left eye over aim point A first.

Sorry if this is confusing. It reminds me of trying to communicate Buddhist concepts. Sometimes perceptions can't be explained well by words. You have to experience it to understand. Once you see the alignment of aim point A and the CTE line together as one visual, you will see what I am struggling to express.
 
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LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With the CB and OB being close together, the transition from the initial CTE line to sighting on the secondary aim line would effect a larger shift to the new stance than if the OB is farther down table?

Sighting the edge of the CB at 1/8 point on the OB would require a larger shift from the CTE line than aiming at "C"?

Thanks
 
M

Mirza

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JMW said:
Stan is THE man and has answered the question. I am no expert. But I thought I would explain what I do anyway and see what he says.

This is how I see it but I also know people perceive things differently. I will use a left cut as an example. Opposite for right cut.

For a left cut, I start establishing the visual of LCBE to OB aim point A with my LEFT EYE. I move my head/body until I can see aim point A with the left eye AND the CCB to OB right edge appears to my RIGHT eye. Then I freeze, establish the vertical cue ball center line and then swing the cue to center cue ball.

If I am aligned correctly to aim point A (left eye) visual, the CTE visual (right eye) will appear with no head or eye movement. In other words, aim point A is not correct until I can also see the CTE line to right object ball edge. It is really one complete visual perception. Starting with aim point A first creates the offset.

Sorry if this is confusing. It reminds me of trying to communicate Buddhist concepts. Sometimes perceptions can't be explained well by words. You have to experience it to understand. Once you see the alignment of aim point A and the CTE line together as one visual, you will see what I am struggling to express.
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Well, actualy, it makes more sence now.
So when it's right cut, your right eye is looking for RCBE to OBC, and left eye is on CTEL?
Are you right handed, right eye dominant or do you think that doesn't matter here?

What about when your looking at LCBE to B with your left eye, is you right eye again on CTEL?

Thank you, very helpful.
 
JMW

JMW

Seen Your Member
Silver Member
Mirza said:
Well, actualy, it makes more sence now.
So when it's right cut, your right eye is looking for RCBE to OBC, and left eye is on CTEL?
Are you right handed, right eye dominant or do you think that doesn't matter here?

What about when your looking at LCBE to B with your left eye, is you right eye again on CTEL?

Thank you, very helpful.
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So when it's right cut, your right eye is looking for RCBE to OBC, and left eye is on CTEL? Yes. My right eye is positioned over the aim line B or C and left eye for CTEL. But it is really one visual.
Are you right handed, right eye dominant or do you think that doesn't matter here? Right handed and left eye dominant. But it makes no difference for me. Left eye over aim line A or B for a left cut. Right eye over aim line B or C for a right cut.

What about when your looking at LCBE to B with your left eye, is you right eye again on CTEL? Yes
 
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Mirza

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JMW said:
So when it's right cut, your right eye is looking for RCBE to OBC, and left eye is on CTEL? Yes? My right eye is positioned over the aim line B or C and left eye for CTEL. But it is really one visual.
Are you right handed, right eye dominant or do you think that doesn't matter here? Right handed and left eye dominant. But it makes no difference for me. Left eye over aim line A or B for a left cut. Right eye over aim line B or C for a right cut.

What about when your looking at LCBE to B with your left eye, is you right eye again on CTEL? Yes
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Ok thank you, no more questions from me :)
 
gazman100

gazman100

Brunswick Gold Crowns - Qld Australia
Silver Member
left or right pivot

Hi All,
Can someone explain the difference between using left or right pivot.
What I mean is would it make any difference to potting the ball if you use either.
As I understand it from what I've searched on the net is that you can either do a left or right pivot as the center to cue ball is the same, however the Pro one DVD states that if one pivot doesn't work the other will. Also when going for a shot how do you know if it's left or right.
I've been playing around with this for a couple of months now and I've found that when I pivot, I pivot at the pocket side of the ball.
This seems to be a bit of a gray area for me.
Thankyou in advance for your responses.
Gary
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
gazman100 said:
Can someone explain the difference between using left or right pivot.
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From a non-user:

I think you have to decide where the CB's pre-pivot center is ("acquire the visual") with the direction of your pivot in mind - i.e., you can't change the pivot direction after that without also changing where the CB's pre-pivot center is.

This is because the CB's pre-pivot center gives you the line which is parallel to your pre-pivot cue, so pivoting one way from there will change the aim in one direction while pivoting the other way will change the aim in the opposite direction.

pj
chgo
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Reverse Engineering.

Put a ball where the GB needs to be and aim the center of the CB at the center of that (GB) ball. Pivot right or left to 1/2 tip to the side of the center of the CB and memorize the 2 visuals achieve when pivoting right and pivoting left for the cut angle.
 
JMW

JMW

Seen Your Member
Silver Member
LAMas said:
Put a ball where the GB needs to be and aim the center of the CB at the center of that (GB) ball. Pivot right or left to 1/2 tip to the side of the center of the CB and memorize the 2 visuals achieve when pivoting right and pivoting left for the cut angle.
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Just to be clear... there is no mechanical pivot in Pro One.
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Offset and Pivot Aiming Systems

Posted on January 27, 2012 by mohrt, 5,154 views


CTE, Pro1, 90/90, Shishkebob: each of which are close cousins of one and other and all share common elements. These techniques are all referred to as “offset and pivot” systems. Whether it be Hal Houle’s Center-to-Edge, Stan Shuffett’s Pro1 or Ron Vitello’s 90/90, offset and pivot systems afford players objective and repeatable methods of ball-pocketing (without the guesswork of ghost ball or other traditional methods.)
 
JMW

JMW

Seen Your Member
Silver Member
LAMas said:
Offset and Pivot Aiming Systems

Posted on January 27, 2012 by mohrt, 5,154 views


CTE, Pro1, 90/90, Shishkebob: each of which are close cousins of one and other and all share common elements. These techniques are all referred to as “offset and pivot” systems. Whether it be Hal Houle’s Center-to-Edge, Stan Shuffett’s Pro1 or Ron Vitello’s 90/90, offset and pivot systems afford players objective and repeatable methods of ball-pocketing (without the guesswork of ghost ball or other traditional methods.)
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Yes... that is correct. They share common elements. Pro One is body offset and CTE is mechanical pivot. In Pro One, you swing to center ball with no mechanical pivot. FYI... I had to learn CTE before I could grasp Pro One.
 
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LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CTE Version 4 (as interpreted by dr_dave from the description and examples on Stan Shuffett's Pro One DVD) - 6 lines of aim:

While standing, sight through the center of the CB and the outside edge of the OB (i.e., sight along the CTE line). Then, based on the type of cut (see the table below), shift your sighting to visualize a line through the inside edge of the CB to a given alignment point on the OB (see the table and figure below), while also maintaining the CTE visual. Then drop and slide into your stance straight toward the CB, placing your bridge to align the cue 1/2 tip off the CB's center (per the table and figure below). Now pivot the cue to the center of the CB with a fixed-bridge pivot. Here is a summary of the OB alignment points and pre-pivot tip positions for each type of cut:....
 
JMW

JMW

Seen Your Member
Silver Member
LAMas said:
CTE Version 4 (as interpreted by dr_dave from the description and examples on Stan Shuffett's Pro One DVD) - 6 lines of aim:

While standing, sight through the center of the CB and the outside edge of the OB (i.e., sight along the CTE line). Then, based on the type of cut (see the table below), shift your sighting to visualize a line through the inside edge of the CB to a given alignment point on the OB (see the table and figure below), while also maintaining the CTE visual. Then drop and slide into your stance straight toward the CB, placing your bridge to align the cue 1/2 tip off the CB's center (per the table and figure below). Now pivot the cue to the center of the CB with a fixed-bridge pivot. Here is a summary of the OB alignment points and pre-pivot tip positions for each type of cut:....
Click to expand...

That is correct for CTE/manual pivot. But Stan's DVD is divided into two sections... CTE with a manual pivot (first part) and Pro One without a manual pivot (second part). They are two different methods with common elements. Have you seen the DVD or are you going off of viewer descriptions?
 
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LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JMW said:
That is correct for CTE/manual pivot. But Stan's DVD is divided into two sections... CTE with a manual pivot (first part) and Pro One without a manual pivot (second part). They are two different methods with common elements. Have you seen the DVD or are you going off of viewer descriptions?
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I have not bought or seen the DVD and with all of info given up by Stan an others, I won't because the visuals thing and how that correlates to the cut angles is to be memorized.

I can align with the CTE aim line, but when I move to the secondary aim line, my eyes are moved away from that CTE line, but it is said that you should be able to see both - I can't.

Some say that they just drop down on the shot with the secondary aim line so that the initial CTE aim line isn't necessary.

Not parsimonious for me.
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
If by parsimonious you mean "clear and complete instructions that leave nothing to personal interpretation", then it's clearly not parsimonious for you or anybody else.

pj
chgo
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Yeah...that too.

... the law of parsimony, economy or succinctness. It is a principle urging one to select among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions and thereby offers the simplest explanation of the effect.

Occam's Razor.
 
gazman100

gazman100

Brunswick Gold Crowns - Qld Australia
Silver Member
I've only been using the Manual CTE for a couple of months and have now moved onto the Pro one.
All I can say is what a differance this has made. Pro one is smooth and fluid and has a natural movement about it. I thought it would have taken me months to go to Pro one however I find it much easier than the Manual CTE.
Give it a go, you won't be dissapointed.
 
T

thailandcues

Registered
Think is easy but doing is a hard part. I always imagine the line after the white ball touch the targeted ball. Just like doing a math and calculate what will happen after finish one turn. Just my opinion :D
 
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