Pool School Question. Is it worth it?

dmgwalsh

Straight Pool Fanatic
Silver Member
I'm thinking of going to the pool school by Randy G and Scott Lee in Chicago the weekend of September 9-11 and I wanted some input from people who have been through this school as to whether you think it is worth it and what I can expect to get out of it.

I'm sure it varies depending upon one's level of experience and ability. my high run in straight is in the low 30s. I don't always stroke good; I've been accused of poking the ball instead of stroking it, though I think I'm getting better at stroking. I'd like to develop a reliable stroke, and good cue ball control.

Any input would be appreciated.
 

cheese_ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dennis-

Randy and Scott are two of the best instructors in the US! I'm not sure how the school "stacks up" but their private lessons are 100% worth it. I am planning on attending this Chi-town session (assuming I can afford it... I'm closing on my first place that week), and I hope to meet you there. I would guess that a couple days of intensive training will be worth the $$$. I paid over $100/hr. for my lesson with Scott, and it was worth every penny. You're getting 24 hours of instruction for much less than that... although there will be 8 of us and 2 instructors. So it's like sharing your time with 3 other people. I hope to see you there!
 

pooltchr

Prof. Billiard Instructor
Silver Member
Randy may bring along another instructor if there are that many students. He usually likes to keep a 2 to 1 ratio whenever possible. And trust me, it will be the best 3 days of your pool life. Worth every penny!
Steve
 
B

Bruce S. de Lis

Guest
dmgwalsh said:
I'm thinking of going to the pool school by Randy G and Scott Lee in Chicago the weekend of September 9-11 and I wanted some input from people who have been through this school as to whether you think it is worth it and what I can expect to get out of it.

I'm sure it varies depending upon one's level of experience and ability. my high run in straight is in the low 30s. I don't always stroke good; I've been accused of poking the ball instead of stroking it, though I think I'm getting better at stroking. I'd like to develop a reliable stroke, and good cue ball control.

Any input would be appreciated.

First Off I am not trying to DISCOURAGE you about going to a Pool School. as there are Schools for just about everything.

Saw a Program on Television where they profiled Bar-B-Q U, as Barbecue School where the attendees learn to Do Barbecue. Cost was I believe $2.500.00, School appeared to be full of Yuppies, and School was so popular it had a Waiting List.

Personally I can cook, do Barbecue, and most folks who have been invited to Eat at my Place Return. I do Great Ribs, Slow Cooked @170 Degrees, Streamed in Bourbon with my Secret Rub. ;)

Think several things are uproots important in being a GREAT POOL PLAYER. A GREAT STROKE, A GREAT STROKE, A GREAT STROKE. Ability to TUNE OUT Everything happening around you except your Shot. (being distracted by nothing) Least learning what I will call Advance Shots in Pool, and Advanced Pool Techniques.

Think there are many FINE Pool Instructional Video's, like Jim Rempe & Lori John Jones “Powder Pool", Mike Sigal Tapes, and last Robert Brynes Tapes volumes I & II.

If most people could MASTER 95% of what was Taught in these (4) Tapes 95% of the time they were at the Table. They would be great players. IMO

If I had the Extra CASH to go to Bar-B-Que U, or Pool School. The question I would ask is what do I get to take home with me from the class. Tapes, Work Book, Hand Out Material, or just a Memory.

Spend your money wisely, you might find a BCA Teaching Pro who will help you with your game for an Occassional Lunch....
;)
 

Cane

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bruce S. de Lis said:
If most people could MASTER 95% of what was Taught in these (4) Tapes 95% of the time they were at the Table. They would be great players. IMO

True, but if most people COULD do that, then there'd be very few bad players! Everyone could be a champion if they could just get everything out a tape! After all, there have been literally MILLIONS of instructional tapes sold, but we certainly don't have MILLIONS of great players roaming the pool rooms, do we???

If I had the Extra CASH to go to Bar-B-Que U, or Pool School. The question I would ask is what do I get to take home with me from the class. Tapes, Work Book, Hand Out Material, or just a Memory.

In the case of Randy's Pool School... Tapes... Well, none that you take with you, however, you do get a frame by frame video analysis of YOU and YOUR stroke every day of the school so that you can get proper feedback on what you're doing right or wrong and see your progress... YOUR progress, not a tape of a shotmaking show by a pro or instructor...

Workbooks? Absolutely. You get a huge book that covers every aspect of the class you take.

Hand Out Material? Included in the workbook, on everything from stoke to aiming to position play, to game stategy, to... oh, hell, there isn't enough room in this post for all of it! Believe me, the book that you own and take home with you after Pool School is PRICELESS

Memories? A bucket full of them. All great memories... and if you perform the things you're supposed to perform after you leave, there is ONE Memory you'll lose... the one of the bad things you USED to do in your pool game.


Spend your money wisely, you might find a BCA Teaching Pro who will help you with your game for an Occassional Lunch....
;)

Hell yeah, I'll do that for you! Come to Oklahoma!!! I LOVE to eat!!! Of course, for "lunch" you're going to get an appetizer, not the full course meal of Pool School. A tidbit here, a tidbit there, but you aren't going to get 24 hours of intense training and knowledge, and you aren't going to get the Book, the Handouts, the custom tailored Perfect Practice Routine built just for you... just an appetizer in exchange for lunch... And for lunch, you aren't going to get the BCA's #1 Rated Master Academy to teach you...



Later,
Bob
 

woody_968

BRING BACK 14.1
Silver Member
Dennis, if you get the chance to go I think you will kick yourself if you dont take advantage of this opportunity.

I would be amazed if you attended this school and afterwards said you didnt feel like it was worth it.

If you think your game might be passed what they will be teaching (although based on what you said some of your problems are I doubt it :D ) ask Randy what is going to be covered in the school. If they will be getting into some of the aiming techniques you really dont want to miss it.

Woody
 

alpine9430

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pool School

I attended a session with RandyG in June at one of his road classes. My game improved much more than I had expected and I would recommend the classes.
I also have several tapes but the one thing that was missing was the evaluation of ME and RandyG and his road staff evaluated me through video tape so I could see myself.
Worth the money for the class and the best part is that you can repeat the same class for not additional cost as a refresher.
Go for it and have a blast,
Alpine9430
 

Barbara

Wilson deleted my avatar
Silver Member
dmgwalsh said:
I'm thinking of going to the pool school by Randy G and Scott Lee in Chicago the weekend of September 9-11 and I wanted some input from people who have been through this school as to whether you think it is worth it and what I can expect to get out of it.

I'm sure it varies depending upon one's level of experience and ability. my high run in straight is in the low 30s. I don't always stroke good; I've been accused of poking the ball instead of stroking it, though I think I'm getting better at stroking. I'd like to develop a reliable stroke, and good cue ball control.

Any input would be appreciated.

Absolutely! It is worth every penny you spend and you will have the knowledge for the rest of your life.

In fact, I'm looking for a refresher course, but RandyG's dates always conflict with my tourny dates.

Barbara
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
dmgwalsh said:
I'm thinking of going to the pool school by Randy G and Scott Lee in Chicago the weekend of September 9-11 and I wanted some input from people who have been through this school as to whether you think it is worth it and what I can expect to get out of it.

I'm sure it varies depending upon one's level of experience and ability. my high run in straight is in the low 30s. I don't always stroke good; I've been accused of poking the ball instead of stroking it, though I think I'm getting better at stroking. I'd like to develop a reliable stroke, and good cue ball control.

Any input would be appreciated.

Go for it. Randy is an exceptional teacher and runs a great school. You can learn a lot from books and tapes, but there's no substitute for direct on-the-spot feedback from a true scholar of the game.
 

Jersey

Clickin' & Clackin'
Silver Member
woody_968 said:
Dennis, if you get the chance to go I think you will kick yourself if you dont take advantage of this opportunity.

I would be amazed if you attended this school and afterwards said you didnt feel like it was worth it.

If you think your game might be passed what they will be teaching (although based on what you said some of your problems are I doubt it :D ) ask Randy what is going to be covered in the school. If they will be getting into some of the aiming techniques you really dont want to miss it.

Woody

Woody/All,

I'm hoping this will be the best $$$ I've ever spent on Pool. I'm taking a road course with Tom Simpson in Oct., when he'll be in Atlanta for two, three day clinics. The one ? I neglected to ask was about refreshers. You or anyone know if he offers this option as well? Have any experience with Tom, or comments to share?

Thx~
 

bruin70

don't wannabe M0DERATOR
Silver Member
have someone camcord you from all angles.....it's cheaper. nothing in pool school is as good as seeing yourself on tape. believe it or not, you know more than you think,,,you're just not aware of what you're doing wrong.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
bruin70 said:
have someone camcord you from all angles.....it's cheaper. nothing in pool school is as good as seeing yourself on tape. believe it or not, you know more than you think,,,you're just not aware of what you're doing wrong.
While you can see a lot on your own, I think it really helps to have someone with video experience review the video with you. First, they may see things you don't notice. Second, they may be able to suggest ways to fix problems, if any.
 
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Bruce S. de Lis

Guest
So what is the Cost of the Course, does it include Hotel, Meals, how Many Days, and hour of Class?
 

SmoothStroke

Swim for the win.
Silver Member
School

dmgwalsh said:
I'm thinking of going to the pool school by Randy G and Scott Lee in Chicago the weekend of September 9-11 and I wanted some input from people who have been through this school as to whether you think it is worth it and what I can expect to get out of it.

I'm sure it varies depending upon one's level of experience and ability. my high run in straight is in the low 30s. I don't always stroke good; I've been accused of poking the ball instead of stroking it, though I think I'm getting better at stroking. I'd like to develop a reliable stroke, and good cue ball control.

Any input would be appreciated.
It cant hurt you but it will not make you a world champ..Take the course then go home and find yourself an instructor who will every week (1) teach you stroke technique....you can learn all the systems in the world but without stroke you may as well take up knitting,,(2) every week he is there reminding you of what you are doing right (3) every week he is there reminding you of what you are doing wrong.... that you twisted, head is crooked,,improper stance,,,not following through,,poor bridge,,,,etc etc etc,, until you hear him in your sleep...apply it in practice,,,,stroke is built on muscle memory and only you can improve it,,,a teacher can pass on knowledge but not memory,,,learn stroke technique and throw 75 % of the other crap out of the window for now,,.1 hour lessons are useless..take 2 hours for stroke once a week or once every 2 weeks.... $ 100 an hour for lessons? give me 4 of them a day and i will have more time for golf
 
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Bruce S. de Lis

Guest
SmoothStroke said:
It cant hurt you but it will not make you a world champ..Take the course then go home and find yourself an instructor who will every week (1) teach you stroke technique....you can learn all the systems in the world but without stroke you may as well take up knitting,,(2) every week he is there reminding you of what you are doing right (3) every week he is there reminding you of what you are doing wrong.... that you twisted, head is crooked,,improper stance,,,not following through,,poor bridge,,,,etc etc etc,, until you hear him in your sleep...apply it in practice,,,,stroke is built on muscle memory and only you can improve it,,,a teacher can pass on knowledge but not memory,,,learn stroke technique and throw 75 % of the other crap out of the window for now,,.1 hour lessons are useless..take 2 hours for stroke once a week or once every 2 weeks.... $ 100 an hour for lessons? give me 4 of them a day and i will have more time for golf


True words above...... :)
 

pooltchr

Prof. Billiard Instructor
Silver Member
For anyone interested, Randy is also going to have his school in Charlotte, NC October 14-16 for those of you in the Southeast. You can PM me or Randy for details.
 

jjinfla

Banned
The only problem I see with "pool schools" is that the student gets over saturated with knowledge in a short time. And just how much can one retain. I personally would prefer weekly or biweekly lessons from a pro with time between to practice.

But private lessons are hard to come by so pool school is the next best thing.

And I have heard nothing negative about Randy and Scott, and the price seems reasonable. So if you have the time and money and desire go for it. Next year you will be wishing you went and the price will be more, you will be older, and you may not have the time. And you will still be doing the same things wrong at the table.

I heard that the Monk is holding a two day school in Orlando for $900.

Bert Kinister offers private lessons for $40 an hour. Oh wait, that was on his video of banking #16, which was produced in 1996, so it is probaly twice that by now. Or more.

Jake
 
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Bruce S. de Lis

Guest
Where I live....

One of our resident is a Certified BCA Teaching Pro, he use to do a Pool 101 Series, with 5 People for three weeks. Three One Hour Lesson that many time went over 2 Hours. Cost for the Series was 30 Bucks/Person.

Private Lesson 40-50 Per hour, or almost free to friends... ;)
 

Deno J. Andrews

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bruce,
I can appreciate your viewpoint on this subject, and I have another viewpoint to share. Billiard games are some of the only serious sports in the world where players do not typically have coaches. As a result of that, there are many great players who have horrible mechanics. That is not to say of course that they can't play because they are unbelievable really. The question is though had they had a coach since early on, where would they be now? So while we can see how well they play today, there is no way for us to measure the amount of effort they put into their own games to overcome the obstacles of bad mechanics.

With that said, I am of the mind that coaching and lessons will accelerate the learning process, and help to reduce long term bad habits that creap into your game before you realize it. If someone wants to play the games well, they will do so more quickly and with a greater understanding of the game by having a qualified coach or teacher. And by qualified, I don't mean a certificate from the BCA which only really guarantees that the instructer paid to take a class somewhere. That is not to say that the BCA instructors are somehow bad...only that there are a few in my opinion who are really good and that the program has historically been very easy to join.

Videos and books are great resources and learning sources. What you don't have with those media is the feedback and Q&A if you don't understand something. What you are also faced with is having to weed through all the stuff that may or may not be good on your own. Also, when a technique is shown on a tape, you really have no way of knowing for sure whether or not you have implemented the technique into your mechanics unless you have feedback. Of course you could video yourself, which I always tell people to do. But the problem in learning technique is that the video will only show your problems after the fact.


And as far as the cost issue, in my experience you get what you pay for. A good teacher will have a lesson plan outlining what exactly will be covered in the lesson; shot diagrams or photos of mechanical aspects built into the lesson; a good video camera; a vast understanding of the game and the ability to teach it. If someone can find people like this who charge less than $100 per lesson, book 'em for the next few years! If someone is doing all of this (keep in mind the pre and post work) for less than $75 a lesson, they don't think very much of their own product or they are not doing the work.

As far as the pool school concept, I think it is the best thing to come around for this sport and enthusiasts. Of course, there are good schools and not so good schools. The problem is this- do you go to the best players for learning or the best teachers who might not know what they heck they are talking about. Of course there are people who can teach and who have an understanding of the game but just can't perform. My contention though is that they are few and far between. Great players might not make great teachers, but what they can tell you about the game is real because they have done it, under pressure, and in real situations. A teacher who has never competed, never played well, in my opinion is not qualified to be a teacher or coach. That is not to say that they may have something of interest or value about certain aspects of the game which they might know really well. It is to say that when it comes to teaching the game, how can one teach what they might not really know...and if they think they know, how do they know for sure? So if anyone is attending a pool school, it is important to get feeback from other students. I have heard wildly good feedback about Allison Fisher's pool school (World Champion teachers who can also teach), as well as the one in Vancouver (the Pool School in Paradise). Not having met anyone who has taken lessons from Scott Lee, I can't really comment. However, having met Scott, my impression is that he knows his game. I would certainly avoid any 'celebrity' pool schools that market getting to know the players moreso than learning how to play.

Ultimately, players should try to learn from everywhere. Tapes, books, articles, even watching great players in person is good. Having a qualified (and I mean qualified)teacher or coach will not hurt your game, and the money is well spent if you have it, and even more well spent if you don't have but want to make some playing billiards :)

Deno Andrews
-just another perspective...
 
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