"Sighting" The Object Ball Into The Pocket

elvicash

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All good observations Sean, thanks.

And again, I am referring to the pros that take an awful long time aiming with their cue, getting down on the ball with one eye closed, and then placing an imaginary mark on the object ball with their cue. :)

Basketball players seem to know where the basket is without a tape measure and scope.

Jim


Pool players go long periods without missing a shot when a basket ball player makes 7 or 8 in a row he is on fire. I know there are defenders etc more in basketball than just shooting the shot.
 

ronhudson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They wouldn't have to do that if they had a good aiming system they could use. Do you know of any?
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Reply to JoeW

Joe,
I think youre exactly on with your comment. I have always said if you dont see the aiming line then its really not there. The minute you just start shooting shots ignoring the proper process you normally know you need to use to have success then you drop the ball.

As long as I continue to do my thing, see the shot line and know its there my success rate is optimum and if I miss I usually know exactly what it was I did wrong, stand wrong, be in a bind, etc

Good Post,

336robin:thumbup:
 

jimmyg

Mook! What's a Mook?
Silver Member
I'm glad that everyone seems to realize that I mean no disrespect to the sport of pool, nor it's players. I'm just trying to place a light hearted spin on this issue.

Consider these facts:

1) Assuming that we are playing on a 9' by 4 1/2' table, the average length of your shot is about 3'.

2) Unlike sports like golf or tennis that are played on different courses and surfaces, pool is always played on 2' slate covered in felt.

3) Aside from slight variances in size, and unlike golf, the six pockets on all pool tables are placed in the same locations, 4 corners and two sides.

4) Almost all pool shots, with the exception of combinations, caroms, and banks, are shot at no less than 0 and no more than 90 degrees.

5) Also, unlike golf or tennis, pool is always played indoors, eliminating all the variances involved in dealing with weather and nature; wind, sunlight, etc.

6) Unlike many other sports, except golf, pool is played against oneself, with stationary balls.

Considering, as an example, that tennis players, playing in the elements, must hit balls coming at them with different speeds and spins while moving and without the ability to measure each shot, makes the "measuring" practice seem slightly amatuerish. They "know" the court.

After playing pool for many years and pocketing tens of thousands of balls I would think that any pro should be able to pocket most balls and "know" the table without excessive measuring. Pre shot routine noted.

Am I way off base here?

Jim
 

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm glad that everyone seems to realize that I mean no disrespect to the sport of pool, nor it's players. I'm just trying to place a light hearted spin on this issue.

Consider these facts:

1) Assuming that we are playing on a 9' by 4 1/2' table, the average length of your shot is about 3'.

2) Unlike sports like golf or tennis that are played on different courses and surfaces, pool is always played on 2' slate covered in felt.

3) Aside from slight variances in size, and unlike golf, the six pockets on all pool tables are placed in the same locations, 4 corners and two sides.

4) Almost all pool shots, with the exception of combinations, caroms, and banks, are shot at no less than 0 and no more than 90 degrees.

5) Also, unlike golf or tennis, pool is always played indoors, eliminating all the variances involved in dealing with weather and nature; wind, sunlight, etc.

6) Unlike many other sports, except golf, pool is played against oneself, with stationary balls.

Considering, as an example, that tennis players, playing in the elements, must hit balls coming at them with different speeds and spins while moving and without the ability to measure each shot, makes the "measuring" practice seem slightly amatuerish. They "know" the court.

After playing pool for many years and pocketing tens of thousands of balls I would think that any pro should be able to pocket most balls and "know" the table without excessive measuring. Pre shot routine noted.

Am I way off base here?

Jim

Jim,

I understand where you are coming from. However, I am pretty sure your logic goes like this:

I don't believe I need to do this particular thing. Therefore someone else shouldn't need to do it either.

There are a LOT of assumptions in this one simple statement that unfortunately are not accurate. Here are some of them:
1) there is *tremendous* variance in how human beings operate, process information, compose themselves under a variety of situations, and perceive things. You can't assume that everyone does these things just like you.
2) Because of # 1 above, the way someone else does it *doesn't have to make sense to you* in order for it to be effective for them.
3) You have already pointed out that you are talking about pro players. The fact that they are pro players should indicate that whatever method they are using is effective enough. Since I am assuming you are not a pro player, I would think you would be more likely to find fault with your own method, rather than the one that results in pro level play.

I'm not trying to disrespect you or anything. You asked if you were way off base. I believe your observation of these pros is accurate (you are able to clearly see and say *what* they are doing), but you are committing an error in logic when you believe you can explain *why they are doing it* in terms of why *you* do what you do.

This reminds me of a time long ago playing in an APA 9 ball match. I was playing in a craphole bar, against a lower ranked player (I think he was a 6). When I didn't have a good shot, I played a safe. Some guy on the other team, ranked a 4 (out of 9, if you're not familiar with APA 9 ball rankings) challenged me with "you're a 9, you shouldn't have to play safe!"

Think about that for a second. This 4 who can barely make 3 balls in a row is telling me how I should play. He is exposing the fact that he has little understanding of the game of 9 ball, and also that he has little understanding of the kind of thought processes that go into becoming a 9 in the APA (not saying that is anything great, but you do have to know how to play a little). He is basically saying to me that I as a 9 should be able to be a 9 by using his skill level 4 mentality. This is simply illogical. The *reason* I am a 9 is because I play the way I do.

In any case, like I said not trying to crap on you or anything, just pointing out one way in which I think you might be off base.

Does that make any sense?

Thanks,

KMRUNOUT
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
JimmyG,
I have to tend to agree a lot with what KMRUNOUT said. Perhaps you should look at the decision making process that is going on when pros look at a pocket. I used to play chess and its not about making the shot its about the move, whats going to happen if you make it and whats going to happen if you miss it. The shot making aspect is just a piece of it and if you have to figure out 2 sides to possibly 3 scenarios of shot English, position and stroke then lets give the guy at least time to decide the best course of action. In straight pool you have more possible shots but still when it comes down to getting to a great break ball you had better know how you going to get to last few balls fairly precisely to have that good break shot.Just my thoughts not slamming you at all.

In competitive chess they play on the clock. Its G30, G45, G60 etc and that means game in 30 minutes or whatever of individual play.

I think thats not a bad idea I ran a tournament and one guy held the whole thing up so long I decided not to run the tournament any more. It became aggravating to stand there waiting for the grass to grow.

A timed event separates the men from the boys and that is plain and simple. So youre being irritated by time taking is not without merit.


336robin :thumbup:
 

desi2960

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
its just a stop and think thing

i was having trouble with combination's a lot lately, so i started moving behind the shot and lining it up with my cue, looking the first ball into the pocket, then looking where i needed to hit the 2nd ball to make it hit the first, then where to hit the cue ball. my combination shots got better.
it could be just a way of taking your time and making sure of the shot. i do not line up every shot but the ones that are giving me trouble, i will stop and think.
and i know where the pocket is, i've been playing for 60 years.

chuck
 

jimmyg

Mook! What's a Mook?
Silver Member
i was having trouble with combination's a lot lately, so i started moving behind the shot and lining it up with my cue, looking the first ball into the pocket, then looking where i needed to hit the 2nd ball to make it hit the first, then where to hit the cue ball. my combination shots got better.
it could be just a way of taking your time and making sure of the shot. i do not line up every shot but the ones that are giving me trouble, i will stop and think.
and i know where the pocket is, i've been playing for 60 years.

chuck

That makes sense because on a combination you are not actually aiming your contact ball at a pocket, you're aiming into the object ball and that confuses your muscle/memory reference. I understand and do the same.

Jim
 

12310bch

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No shot is deserving of more respect than any other. The pool Gods know when you are disrespecting what are considered to be ,"easy," shots by
shortcutting your routine and they will make you pay for it.

All shots must be respected. :bow-down:
 

whitewolf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I find it absolutely amazing that so many pro players have to constantly "look the object ball", or "sight" it into the pocket before shooting.

Jim

I find it absolutely amazing that NO pros I have watched do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell us the pros who do this :rolleyes:

With the exception being Charlie Williams who taught his class including me that if he can't see the shot correctly, he gets up and does this to break up his routine so he can can't a re-vitalized fresh look - and one of his steps is to sight the ball into the pocket (walking over to the direct line and noticing the spot on the object ball to hit).
 

Masayoshi

Fusenshou no Masa
Silver Member
It's about using all information available to shoot a shot. It doesn't cost anything to recheck a shot as long as your rhythm is the same, it does however cost a lot to miss a shot because you failed to check something, even if this miss only occurs 1% of the time, it is still worth it to check because 1 mistake can cost you a match.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Jim,

I understand where you are coming from. However, I am pretty sure your logic goes like this:

I don't believe I need to do this particular thing. Therefore someone else shouldn't need to do it either.

There are a LOT of assumptions in this one simple statement that unfortunately are not accurate. Here are some of them:
1) there is *tremendous* variance in how human beings operate, process information, compose themselves under a variety of situations, and perceive things. You can't assume that everyone does these things just like you.
2) Because of # 1 above, the way someone else does it *doesn't have to make sense to you* in order for it to be effective for them.
3) You have already pointed out that you are talking about pro players. The fact that they are pro players should indicate that whatever method they are using is effective enough. Since I am assuming you are not a pro player, I would think you would be more likely to find fault with your own method, rather than the one that results in pro level play.

I'm not trying to disrespect you or anything. You asked if you were way off base. I believe your observation of these pros is accurate (you are able to clearly see and say *what* they are doing), but you are committing an error in logic when you believe you can explain *why they are doing it* in terms of why *you* do what you do.

This reminds me of a time long ago playing in an APA 9 ball match. I was playing in a craphole bar, against a lower ranked player (I think he was a 6). When I didn't have a good shot, I played a safe. Some guy on the other team, ranked a 4 (out of 9, if you're not familiar with APA 9 ball rankings) challenged me with "you're a 9, you shouldn't have to play safe!"

Think about that for a second. This 4 who can barely make 3 balls in a row is telling me how I should play. He is exposing the fact that he has little understanding of the game of 9 ball, and also that he has little understanding of the kind of thought processes that go into becoming a 9 in the APA (not saying that is anything great, but you do have to know how to play a little). He is basically saying to me that I as a 9 should be able to be a 9 by using his skill level 4 mentality. This is simply illogical. The *reason* I am a 9 is because I play the way I do.

In any case, like I said not trying to crap on you or anything, just pointing out one way in which I think you might be off base.

Does that make any sense?

Thanks,

KMRUNOUT

GREAT GREAT GREAT POST.

This one should be in the AZB Hall of Fame.
 
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