Question about Grip
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Question about Grip - 08-14-2014, 11:52 PM

I'm having a bit of trouble with my grip.

I'm keeping a loose grip with my main points of contact being mostly the thumb, index finger and to a lesser degree the middle finger. As I pull back my pinkie to middle finger splay out and away from the cue.

I'm noticing that in my follow through, there reaches a point in my pendulum swing where the butt hits the palm of my hand and I can't follow through any further. Is that ok?
  
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the "loose grip" and "long follow through" has ruined more pool games than .......
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Unhappy the "loose grip" and "long follow through" has ruined more pool games than ....... - 08-15-2014, 12:45 AM

A "loose grip" is a problem for many players.....I'd highly recommend a "controlling grip," much like you would use with a hammer so you can utilize your hand/wrist action properly.

From my experience the "loose grip" and "long follow through" has ruined more pool games than anyone could possibly imagine.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonythetiger583 View Post
I'm having a bit of trouble with my grip.

I'm keeping a loose grip with my main points of contact being mostly the thumb, index finger and to a lesser degree the middle finger. As I pull back my pinkie to middle finger splay out and away from the cue.

I'm noticing that in my follow through, there reaches a point in my pendulum swing where the butt hits the palm of my hand and I can't follow through any further. Is that ok?


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08-15-2014, 01:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonythetiger583 View Post
I'm having a bit of trouble with my grip.

I'm keeping a loose grip with my main points of contact being mostly the thumb, index finger and to a lesser degree the middle finger. As I pull back my pinkie to middle finger splay out and away from the cue.

I'm noticing that in my follow through, there reaches a point in my pendulum swing where the butt hits the palm of my hand and I can't follow through any further. Is that ok?
This is a pretty good video to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA05wRcRhwc even though his hand position seems a little forward of where it should be, which could also lead to the problem you feel you are having.

Edit: By not having your hand in a position to where you strike the cue ball at 90 deg,. the only way you will feel like you get through the ball is by dropping your elbow.

It really comes down to, if the grip you are using changes the up or side to side delivery of the cue. Depending on your body type your swing should finish when A: your hand hits your torso somewhere; or B: when your forearm hits your bicep.

To give you an extreme, I sometimes have a bigger gap between the but of my cue and the top of the V that is formed by my pointer finger and thumb. I have some back issues, so when I can't physically get down on the shot as far as want, I can compensate my ideal grip to get my cue level, which is very important to build consistent shot patterns.

Grip is mostly personal to me. If you keep the things in mind that was addressed on the video, you will be fine.

Happy shooting



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Last edited by juspooln; 08-15-2014 at 01:16 AM.
  
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08-15-2014, 02:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
A "loose grip" is a problem for many players.....I'd highly recommend a "controlling grip," much like you would use with a hammer so you can utilize your hand/wrist action properly.

From my experience the "loose grip" and "long follow through" has ruined more pool games than anyone could possibly imagine.

The Game is the Teacher.com
Interesting thought on "loose grip" ruining plays,which made me half to respond to your comment. I HIGHLY value your opinion and wanted to get a little more thought on why you feel that way. While I agree about the exaggerated follow through, I see most amatuer players that do start with a great loose grip tighten up half way through the delivery, which alters cue path. I have only personally run into two players that were trying to tighten their grip and pre engage or slow down their wrist action. One was Tommy Kennedy and the other wasn't a real known player. I still have to guess, in pool, just like golf, most still grip it like they are holding on to a big Harley and could benefit with a consistent loose grip.

Speaking of Harley, he once showed me something years ago where he would put an object ball on the bottom short rail by the first diamond closest to the pocket; put the cue ball 6 diamonds up a half diamond closer to the long rail and spin it in.

The trick he showed me to consistently make it, was to keep a close to level cue and tighten up the grip to make the cue ball deflect more which allowed the cue to come into the ball with a little more angle.

Do you think because of how you prefer TOI, it leads to your grip you use?

P.S.again I am just trying to understand so I can become a better teacher



Bill Pelham
League Operator UPA of Jax
http://upatour.com

http://www.bhtip.com//

“The man who complains about the way the ball bounces is likely to be the one who dropped it.” — Lou Holtz

Last edited by juspooln; 08-15-2014 at 02:07 AM.
  
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08-15-2014, 05:46 AM

I agree with CJ. You need to have somewhere between a cradle with all the fingers and a firmer grip. The palm smacking action you have may indicate you are making the wrong wrist movement/direction with the forward stroke. Have an instructor look at your stroke and stance. Once you have a perfect stroke and stance you can be confident with a very light grip as well.


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08-15-2014, 06:19 AM

I have yet to hear an explanation as to why using the thumb and index finger as the main pressure points of a grip is beneficial. This is regardless of whether you use a loose or controlled grip.

Can anyone explain the 'why' of the thumb and index finger pressure point grip?

My research has taken me in the exact opposite direction.

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08-15-2014, 07:28 AM

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Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
I have yet to hear an explanation as to why using the thumb and index finger as the main pressure points of a grip is beneficial. This is regardless of whether you use a loose or controlled grip.

Can anyone explain the 'why' of the thumb and index finger pressure point grip?

My research has taken me in the exact opposite direction.
I am thinking it is because you have to use your thumb and if you let your wrist fall down straight, your thumb lines up with your index finger.
  
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08-15-2014, 07:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
I have yet to hear an explanation as to why using the thumb and index finger as the main pressure points of a grip is beneficial. This is regardless of whether you use a loose or controlled grip.

Can anyone explain the 'why' of the thumb and index finger pressure point grip?

My research has taken me in the exact opposite direction.
Maybe Lee Brett will chime in. He talks about it in his DVD.
  
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08-15-2014, 11:06 AM

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Originally Posted by (((Satori))) View Post
I am thinking it is because you have to use your thumb and if you let your wrist fall down straight, your thumb lines up with your index finger.
So, what happens if you don't grip the cue with your thumb?

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08-15-2014, 11:29 AM

I have read on snooker forums that the thumb should apply no pressure at all and which fingers we use to hold the cue is a matter of preference - index fingers, first two fingers, or back fingers etc.
  
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08-15-2014, 12:03 PM

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Originally Posted by pleforowicz View Post
I have read on snooker forums that the thumb should apply no pressure at all and which fingers we use to hold the cue is a matter of preference - index fingers, first two fingers, or back fingers etc.
I agree 100%. The thumb causes a lot of problems in many players. They just have to find how to place their thumb to keep the stroke smooth. And maybe a left shoulder rotation will also help with this.
  
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08-15-2014, 12:57 PM

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I agree 100%. The thumb causes a lot of problems in many players. They just have to find how to place their thumb to keep the stroke smooth. And maybe a left shoulder rotation will also help with this.
You mean like a "Come up and see me sometime" kind of shoulder rotation?

Sorry, couldn't resist. I don't know who you are but I'll tell you a little about myself. I played on the women's pro tour for some 20 years. In later years I've had top 10 finishes on tour and a ranking in the top 16. My rank in earlier years at one point was as high as 5th. I studied the game for years and years and I've taught the game for a few decades now.

My research never led me to such a correlation between the right thumb and left shoulder. However, I am open to new and interesting information, so please, if you have definitive proof of this relationship, please post it, and your name as well as your experience in researching the game.

See, I'm a big believer in that whatever you discover, or uncover, it must work under pressure or it is of little or no value. Plus, if you're going to throw out theories in the ask the instructor section, you should be prepared to be challenged.

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08-15-2014, 01:58 PM

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Originally Posted by pleforowicz View Post
I have read on snooker forums that the thumb should apply no pressure at all and which fingers we use to hold the cue is a matter of preference - index fingers, first two fingers, or back fingers etc.
That sounds goofy. If the thumb touches the cue it is applying pressure. Do these savants recommend not touching the cue with the thumb? I know someone who recommends laying the thumb on the top of the cue. Would that work as well?

For the vast majority of top players the thumb is an essential part of the grip.


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08-15-2014, 02:07 PM

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Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
You mean like a "Come up and see me sometime" kind of shoulder rotation?

Sorry, couldn't resist. I don't know who you are but I'll tell you a little about myself. I played on the women's pro tour for some 20 years. In later years I've had top 10 finishes on tour and a ranking in the top 16. My rank in earlier years at one point was as high as 5th. I studied the game for years and years and I've taught the game for a few decades now.

My research never led me to such a correlation between the right thumb and left shoulder. However, I am open to new and interesting information, so please, if you have definitive proof of this relationship, please post it, and your name as well as your experience in researching the game.

See, I'm a big believer in that whatever you discover, or uncover, it must work under pressure or it is of little or no value. Plus, if you're going to throw out theories in the ask the instructor section, you should be prepared to be challenged.
No big deal. Because everybody is different he has to find what to do in order to feel comfortable and have a smooth stroke. When I say "left shoulder rotation" i just mean watch Efren Reyes or Mika Immonen or Ronnie Alcano. These three play with their left shoulder rotated to the inside. Other players play with their left shoulder open.

About the thumb: the above three players when they deliver their thumb is not even touching the cue. It is out of the game.

My name is Panagiotis and I am from Greece. I study the game a lot. You don't know me, you might think I am a troll or an idiot. And I don't know you either. So I can also say anything about you ????

You are an instructor. This doesn't mean anything to me.
  
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understand the synergy created by the components of the hand, wrist, and forearm
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Thumbs up understand the synergy created by the components of the hand, wrist, and forearm - 08-15-2014, 02:13 PM

One reason is a "loose grip" allows unconscious stroke alterations without the player being aware it's happening. I've seen this time and time again and it leads to inconsistency and frustration.

Learning the stroke with a firmer grip forces the player to understand the synergy created by the components of the hand, wrist, and forearm and how it connects the shoulder all the say to the tip......and the tip is what we play the game with, the only physical connection and therefore a vital one.

I have a routine in teaching the stoke that connects the shoulder, arm, wrist, and hand in such a way that even a slight movement of the shoulder will register in the tip (after the player is already down on the shot).....this is probably the best way to make sure the connection is correct and if you watch Shane closely he will do this as a part of his routine.

Once a player has a near perfect stroke they can loosen up and it won't be such a negative factor because there will be no need for unconscious alterations.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by juspooln View Post
Interesting thought on "loose grip" ruining plays,which made me half to respond to your comment. I HIGHLY value your opinion and wanted to get a little more thought on why you feel that way. While I agree about the exaggerated follow through, I see most amatuer players that do start with a great loose grip tighten up half way through the delivery, which alters cue path. I have only personally run into two players that were trying to tighten their grip and pre engage or slow down their wrist action. One was Tommy Kennedy and the other wasn't a real known player. I still have to guess, in pool, just like golf, most still grip it like they are holding on to a big Harley and could benefit with a consistent loose grip.

Speaking of Harley, he once showed me something years ago where he would put an object ball on the bottom short rail by the first diamond closest to the pocket; put the cue ball 6 diamonds up a half diamond closer to the long rail and spin it in.

The trick he showed me to consistently make it, was to keep a close to level cue and tighten up the grip to make the cue ball deflect more which allowed the cue to come into the ball with a little more angle.

Do you think because of how you prefer TOI, it leads to your grip you use?

P.S.again I am just trying to understand so I can become a better teacher


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