Buying decision: spindle vs router

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The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Good Morning All,

I'm looking to get into a live tooling set up for my metal lathe. The initial intent is to turn down and taper wood blanks, and if I get real full myself try and build a butt for myself. I have a bunch of hobby machinist time under my belt, but haven't done anything with live tooling unless you would consider using a tool post grinder for creating morse taper adapters a comparable.

My questions are..: If you were doing it again. Would you use a router or a cnc spindle for your lathe live tooling...? ...and what type / power would you lean toward..? I've read mention on this forum about 2.2kw spindles. I'm assuming that would mean those using router opt for a 2.5hp..?

Do either a router or spindle provide any advantages over the other in terms of "cue building"...?

Thanks in advance for your time.
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A spindle motor is usually heavier and some are water cooled, making it a bit unpractical on a lathe where you take the spindle/router of and on all the time. Kress or Suhner are built to take abuse and they are very accurate. I hear good things about Makita too. My CNC have a water cooled 2.2kw spindle, it's very quiet compared to the Kress and it uses normal ER20 collets wich is a huge pluss.
 
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T

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Thanks for the reply Kim.

I did a little digging on both Kress and Suhner. It would be nice to have a single (all in one housing) unit that I could slip in and out of different applications. That's something a spindle that requires a separate drive wouldn't provide me with much ease.

Did you experience much deflection when using the Kress...?..., or did you make a effort to take lighter passes with it as compared to the cnc spindle..? Even though the single point of mounting is at the nose it doesn't seem very rigid approach.

I'll be honest... Although a lower sound level is very enticing. Water cooling isn't something I'd like to get into.
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Kress is pretty robust and I can't really say deflection is a huge issue. The collets go up to 5/16" would be nice if you could fit 1/2" bits. But most cue making cutters are 1/4" anyways... I use a 1/2" bit in my spindle, high helix end mill for aluminium, cuts really nice.
 
Scratchy

Scratchy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As just FYI, I had been running several Kress routers and switched two of them to the water-cooled 120v Chinese spindles. I am very pleased. Much quieter than the Kress and as for the cooling - pretty simple. Get a small aquarium pump and drop it in a large kitty litter container/etc./bucket of antifreeze/water mix. Hardly gets warm. There are mount castings available that fit the spindles snd mske mounting pretty straightforward.
There is the need to configure the VFD, but lots of info on the net on doing that, as well as adding in s temp switch to keep the noisy fan from running unless needed - which is virtually never so far.
Works well for me.
Best luck to ya -
Mac


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
T

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
So here's what I'm looking at right now...

https://www.moretmotors.com/product...fd-80mm-clamp-water-pumpwater-pipe-13pcs-er20

-2.2KW CNC Water Cooled Spindle Motor
-2.2KW/220V VDF
-3.5M Water Pump
-5M Water Pipes ( Inside Diameter 6mm , outside Diameter 8mm )
-80mm Spindle Clamp
-ER20 Collet size (1,2,3.175,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12.7,13mm)

I'm comfortable with that price, and it seems to be on par if not better than many comparables on ebay. However I am terribly naive when it comes to spindles, and I can't help thinking I'm missing some aspect in this purchase that I should be placing importance on.

Does this appear to be a reasonable purchase to those who have done this before..?

As always..., thanks in advance
 
Scratchy

Scratchy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Again as just FYI, if you don’t conveniently have 220, I use a 1.5 kW, 2hp 110v spindle and it does everything I’ve needed.
Otherwise, the system seems like a good setup.
I don’t claim to be a pro machinist, just sharing my experience. I’ve used my setup for quite a few inlays and it has performed well.

HIH, good luck!

Mac


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Facundus Cues

Facundus Cues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The noise reduction a spindle is worth a lot in my opinion. I have a couple air cooled Chinese spindles that I have been running for a couple years so for with no issues yet and they are pretty inexpensive. I highly doubt that they will last as long or hold tolerances as well as a quality spindle.
I am pretty sure that any spindle will require a vfd to run and if you are making a removable mount for a lathe I would think it would be pretty cumbersome compared to a router unless you could maybe mount the vfd permanently and have some sort of quick connect cord for the motor itself. I also think that any spindle would have less runout but on the flipside the routers are pretty easy to replace bearings when they wear out
 
aphelps1

aphelps1

Phelps Custom Cues
Silver Member
The 3.175mm is 1/8 inch, I'm assuming the 13mm is close enough for a 1/2 inch shank but a 1/4 inch shank would be 6.35mm. The price point is very good for that spindle, but for cuemaking I think 2.2K is overkill. I run a 1050 Kress on one of my machines and it has plenty of power, although on high RPMs it sounds like a jet engine.

Alan
 
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JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
The_JV said:
So here's what I'm looking at right now...

https://www.moretmotors.com/product...fd-80mm-clamp-water-pumpwater-pipe-13pcs-er20

-2.2KW CNC Water Cooled Spindle Motor
-2.2KW/220V VDF
-3.5M Water Pump
-5M Water Pipes ( Inside Diameter 6mm , outside Diameter 8mm )
-80mm Spindle Clamp
-ER20 Collet size (1,2,3.175,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12.7,13mm)

I'm comfortable with that price, and it seems to be on par if not better than many comparables on ebay. However I am terribly naive when it comes to spindles, and I can't help thinking I'm missing some aspect in this purchase that I should be placing importance on.

Does this appear to be a reasonable purchase to those who have done this before..?

As always..., thanks in advance
Click to expand...

That will do.
That is pretty cheap.
10 years ago, it might have been 75% more.

For really rough jobs, it does not hurt to use a huge router .
They are cheap too.
You can't use the spindle for really tough rough jobs.
You'll burn the bearings.
 
Facundus Cues

Facundus Cues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why not just get the air cooled version for about the same price and skip the hassle of having to deal with the water?
 
T

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Scratchy said:
Again as just FYI, if you don’t conveniently have 220, I use a 1.5 kW, 2hp 110v spindle and it does everything I’ve needed.
Click to expand...

aphelps1 said:
The price point is very good for that spindle, but for cuemaking I think 2.2K is overkill. I run a 1050 Kress on one of my machines and it has plenty of power, although on high RPMs it sounds like a jet engine.
Click to expand...

Fortunately the lathe I intend to use the future spindle with is a 220v machine, so the power is at the wall already.

When I was digging through the seas of available spindle packages I leaned toward the 2.2kw size for two reasons.
-available power
-larger collet capacity

The only real "disadvantage" I saw was an increase in spindle diameter of about 20mm. The price difference is about $60 but the ability to use ER20 collets offset that fairly easily.

dafunkdawg said:
Why not just get the air cooled version for about the same price and skip the hassle of having to deal with the water?
Click to expand...

Good question, and I did a little research. Here's the advantages in water cooled I have found. Whether they directly apply to cue building is another question.
-Quieter
-lower rpm range (cooling not spd depended)
-dust control (not competing with the spindle exhaust)
-Fluid tight (so in flood coolant apps there is no concern about pulling flood medium into the spindle)

What this digging has lead me to believe is that there really isn't a major advantage to water cooled in a home gamer application. Possibly the lower rpm range but there's work arounds for that.

Note: While digging for air .vs. water comparisons I found a cheaper seller. Seller goes by "RATTMMOTOR" on your favourite shopping website.
 
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Scratchy

Scratchy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I went with the water-cooled version because things I read here seemed to indicate they were the quietest. It also seemed to me that water-cooled should have cooler bearings and perhaps thus a longer life. The VFD was a bigger concern to me in making the switch from my Kress 800s.
All are just ‘beliefs’! I have no data, but all in all, it was not a big deal to switch and the water system is really trivial.
The fan on the VFD is the noisiest part, but adding a thermal switch so it only runs if the drivers get hot (like, never!) was pretty easy as shown in a Youtube video I found.

Best

Mac


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
T

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Nearly all the kits I have looked at thus far, seem to have a lower limit of 9000rpm....

I found that surprising.
 
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