"Sighting" The Object Ball Into The Pocket

jimmyg · Jun 3, 2010

I find it absolutely amazing that so many pro players have to constantly "look the object ball", or "sight" it into the pocket before shooting.

When I say "looking the ball", or "sighting" the shot into the pocket, I mean for a routine cut shot, not just when they need to see if it fits past another interferring ball, or on a really thin cut, which I can understand,.....but on a seemingly routine shot!

After all, the pockets don't move, they are in the same place they were 100 years ago....aren't they? :wink:

When I'm playing straight pool, feeling comfortable and shooting fairly well, I rarely need to "sight" the shot, especially when I get into a rhythm and I rarely play more than once a week. These guys play every day.

Am I missing something or are they making a major production for another reason? Slowing down the pace perhaps, or really planning shape?

Jim

DGunter · Jun 3, 2010

Calculating variables and visualizing how it will change the shot probably. The effect of x amount of collision induced throw on the OB for instance.

dr9ball · Jun 3, 2010

jimmyg said:
I find it absolutely amazing that so many pro players have to constantly "look the object ball", or "sight" it into the pocket before shooting.

snipped

Am I missing something or are they making a major production for another reason? Slowing down the pace perhaps, or really planning shape?

Jim

They are doing the same thing every time most likely. Consistency might be the reason they are a pro. Just a thought.

greyghost · Jun 3, 2010

thats just part of their complete pre-shot routine brother....its not about slow down or speed up its just doing the same thing over and over and over and over lol....

when your routine is always the same and dependable you depend on it, it becomes normal to you

duckie · Jun 3, 2010

jimmyg said:
I find it absolutely amazing that so many pro players have to constantly "look the object ball", or "sight" it into the pocket before shooting.

When I say "looking the ball", or "sighting" the shot into the pocket, I mean for a routine cut shot, not just when they need to see if it fits past another interferring ball, or on a really thin cut, which I can understand,.....but on a seemingly routine shot! After all, the pockets don't move, they are in the same place they were 100 years ago....aren't they? :wink:

When I'm playing straight pool, feeling comfortable and shooting fairly well, I rarely need to "sight" the shot, especially when I get into a rhythm and I rarely play more than once a week. These guys play every day.

Am I missing something or are they making a major production for another reason? Slowing down the pace perhaps, or really planning shape?

Jim

Because at some point, missing a "routine shot" cost them a match that really mattered.

There is no such a thing as a routine shot in pool. You may shoot the same type of shot over and over, but they are never routine.

NewStroke · Jun 3, 2010

jimmyg said:
I find it absolutely amazing that so many pro players have to constantly "look the object ball", or "sight" it into the pocket before shooting.

When I say "looking the ball", or "sighting" the shot into the pocket, I mean for a routine cut shot, not just when they need to see if it fits past another interferring ball, or on a really thin cut, which I can understand,.....but on a seemingly routine shot! After all, the pockets don't move, they are in the same place they were 100 years ago....aren't they? :wink:

When I'm playing straight pool, feeling comfortable and shooting fairly well, I rarely need to "sight" the shot, especially when I get into a rhythm and I rarely play more than once a week. These guys play every day.

Am I missing something or are they making a major production for another reason? Slowing down the pace perhaps, or really planning shape?

Jim

I don't know about any other players, but Allen Hopkins must do this repeatedly as his dominant eye is cube shaped. If the ball he is looking at "falls off" his line of site, he has to relook and commit the image to memory before shooting.

Black-Balled · Jun 3, 2010

greyghost said:
thats just part of their complete pre-shot routine brother....its not about slow down or speed up its just doing the same thing over and over and over and over lol....

when your routine is always the same and dependable you depend on it, it becomes normal to you

Agreed- it isn't coz the pocket might be in a different place or other physical barrier to pocketing...it is all part of a process that leads to 100% certainty, as opposed to 90%.

Which way you want to go to bat for your $$?

jimmyg · Jun 3, 2010

Thanks everyone for your responses.

So far, most seem to be almost defending the practice. Now, I understand pool pretty well, including pre-shot routines, concentration, and consistency, but I'm talking about "sighting" and lining up the shot, sometimes with their cue.

Watch the really great players like Willie, Lassiter, and most of the more current champions, they all seem to know where the pockets are.

Most of the players I'm referring to seem to be looking for the contact point instead of "knowing" where it is.

And NO, I don't want to gamble with them. :wink:

Jim

hang-the-9 · Jun 3, 2010

You just need to take one shot for granted and against who those guys play, you can go from a 10k check to a 3k one in one miss.

Some are really really bad about it though. I think Ralf S. is one of the worse, he looks and checks and relooks and rechecks and walks around the table 3 times on every shot. He's the only one I can think off that even I start thinking "get on with it already!", and I'm not what you would call a fast player.

336Robin · Jun 3, 2010

Sighting

I think the reason a lot of people do what you are talking about is they really dont know what it is they are doing. They are trying to put it all together and really dont know what to look for. Sure the pockets have not changed position but they havent yet made sense of how to see the aiming line off of a sphere. Id say it was visual confusion and trying to get as close as possible. Perhaps you see the line exceptionally well you ever thought of that? Now pro players are another thing altogether.

336robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com

jimmyg · Jun 3, 2010

Now I know that some of you guys and girls are out there......fess up!

Jim

mikeyfrost · Jun 3, 2010

You gotta make em wait, it's like a concert!

Seriously though I don't get it a lot of times either but I compare it to NBA Players shooting free throws, the good shooters always do the same exact thing everytime.

sfleinen · Jun 3, 2010

jimmyg said:
I find it absolutely amazing that so many pro players have to constantly "look the object ball", or "sight" it into the pocket before shooting.

When I say "looking the ball", or "sighting" the shot into the pocket, I mean for a routine cut shot, not just when they need to see if it fits past another interferring ball, or on a really thin cut, which I can understand,.....but on a seemingly routine shot! After all, the pockets don't move, they are in the same place they were 100 years ago....aren't they? :wink:

When I'm playing straight pool, feeling comfortable and shooting fairly well, I rarely need to "sight" the shot, especially when I get into a rhythm and I rarely play more than once a week. These guys play every day.

Am I missing something or are they making a major production for another reason? Slowing down the pace perhaps, or really planning shape?

Jim

Jim:

I'm an open-level player (not quite a pro, but working my way towards that goal), if my viewpoint means anything.

As a ghostballer, I do this. Not so much in "determining where the pocket is" (as you seem to put it), but rather to get comfortable that I don't hit the ball too fat. Usually, when I miss routine shots, it's because I hit the object ball too fat, or I don't compensate for throw. What I'm saying to myself when I get behind the object ball and view its line to the pocket is, "ok, there's the contact point; because of the angle of this shot, there is a high likelihood of throw, so I need to make sure to hit just slightly past that contact point to allow for it." Yes, it's a routine shot, but haven't we all missed routine shots in our playing lifetime -- especially at the worst possible time, when the difference between making that ball and missing it, meant you lose the match? Playing every day (which I don't, by the way) doesn't mean a thing; underestimating a shot, or not giving it the respect it deserves, is very costly. It doesn't matter if it's an easy or difficult shot -- you miss it, you pay the price.

It's not like in a gambling match where if you lose the set, you can just flip again (assuming you still have some green in the tank to play with). There are no do-overs in a tournament setting. It's also not like what you say "when I'm 'comfortable' and 'in a rhythm of shooting balls'." Remember, in those types of non-practice situations, there is no "rhythm" or "routine" or "comfort." This is not practice. This is "show time"!

Now I'm just saying this from a "quick glance" or "take a second glance to be sure" perspective, before getting down and shooting (which is what I do). For those that *belabor* the routine (I don't have to mention any pro's names here, but I'm sure you can guess), I agree with you. I've seen players that, during practice, one-stroke everything into the pocket, but when curtain call comes and it's "show time," they slow w-a-y down. That might be an act (read: sharking), or it might be them being uber conservative/careful, or it might be a nervous tic.

I hope this is helpful!
-Sean

jimmyg · Jun 3, 2010

mikeyfrost said:
You gotta make em wait, it's like a concert!

Seriously though I don't get it a lot of times either but I compare it to NBA Players shooting free throws, the good shooters always do the same exact thing everytime.

LOL.

Correct Mike, but they don't have to "measure" the shot...they already know it.

Jim

JoeW · Jun 3, 2010

Seems to me that knowing the shot line often tells me how I can play the shot for position. That is, do I want to use the left or the right side of the pocket. If you sight standing up it is not the same picture as when you are down. If you sight from behind the cue ball it is again a different picture.

I not only sight the OB, I then sight from behind the CB and hold that picture all the way down to the shooting stance. The whole process helps me concentrate better and creates images that can be used.

Check yourself and find out why you miss the shots you miss. Once you have mastered a PSR I would bet that you miss because you hit the OB in the wrong place. My subconscious often thinks it knows where to hit the ball and it often does. But then the missed shots are because I placed to much confidence in that visual ability that is not as good as I would like to think that it is.

Over time, I think that my subconscious has learned to "check all the lines" when the shot is important. It has learned to do this becasuu of the attention I have paid to why I miss.

In my game I have found that easy shots (where I often don't check the lines) which require precise position are the shots I miss. Hmmm -- maybe I should check those lines again.

leehayes · Jun 3, 2010

I agree with Sean. I do pretty much what he does. And for me...I'm doing it as part of preshot routine as a mental image for how I want to hit the ball and computing where I want the cueball to end up. I find that if I do it consistently on every shot I end up with the same results. When I don't....I end up making the ball and being out of position. Not from not knowing where I want the ball but from being out of a set routine.

Aaron_S · Jun 3, 2010

I think many of the ones that do this may be ghost ball or contact point aimers, and it does help to sight down the line when you aim that way, especially when you are cutting into a blind pocket.

Another thing that is big in my field (IT), and that I find myself using in pool is redundant systems. If you have one good solution for a problem, that is great. If you have two good solutions for a problem, or at least a system that you can use as a verification, backup, or cross-check for the main system, then you may be able to further mitigate risk by employing both systems. It's free to walk around and look at the other angle, so even if it only improves potting percentage by 1%, it's worth it IMO.

Aaron

TATE · Jun 3, 2010

jimmyg said:
I find it absolutely amazing that so many pro players have to constantly "look the object ball", or "sight" it into the pocket before shooting.

When I say "looking the ball", or "sighting" the shot into the pocket, I mean for a routine cut shot, not just when they need to see if it fits past another interferring ball, or on a really thin cut, which I can understand,.....but on a seemingly routine shot! After all, the pockets don't move, they are in the same place they were 100 years ago....aren't they? :wink:

When I'm playing straight pool, feeling comfortable and shooting fairly well, I rarely need to "sight" the shot, especially when I get into a rhythm and I rarely play more than once a week. These guys play every day.

Am I missing something or are they making a major production for another reason? Slowing down the pace perhaps, or really planning shape?

Jim

Checking the angle, I can understand. What cracks me up is when they bend down to look at it from a low angle - like a golfer checking the line of the putt.

To tell you the truth, I think some of it is just blowing off nervous energy.

Chris

jimmyg · Jun 3, 2010

TATE said:
Checking the angle, I can understand. What cracks me up is when they bend down to look at it from a low angle - like a golfer checking the line of the putt.

To tell you the truth, I think some of it is just blowing off nervous energy.

Chris

That is funny, never occured to me that they may be checking the contours of the green. :wink:

Jim

jimmyg · Jun 3, 2010

sfleinen said:
Jim:

I'm an open-level player (not quite a pro, but working my way towards that goal), if my viewpoint means anything.

As a ghostballer, I do this. Not so much in "determining where the pocket is" (as you seem to put it), but rather to get comfortable that I don't hit the ball too fat. Usually, when I miss routine shots, it's because I hit the object ball too fat, or I don't compensate for throw. What I'm saying to myself when I get behind the object ball and view its line to the pocket is, "ok, there's the contact point; because of the angle of this shot, there is a high likelihood of throw, so I need to make sure to hit just slightly past that contact point to allow for it." Yes, it's a routine shot, but haven't we all missed routine shots in our playing lifetime -- especially at the worst possible time, when the difference between making that ball and missing it, meant you lose the match? Playing every day (which I don't, by the way) doesn't mean a thing; underestimating a shot, or not giving it the respect it deserves, is very costly. It doesn't matter if it's an easy or difficult shot -- you miss it, you pay the price.

It's not like in a gambling match where if you lose the set, you can just flip again (assuming you still have some green in the tank to play with). There are no do-overs in a tournament setting. It's also not like what you say "when I'm 'comfortable' and 'in a rhythm of shooting balls'." Remember, in those types of non-practice situations, there is no "rhythm" or "routine" or "comfort." This is not practice. This is "show time"!

Now I'm just saying this from a "quick glance" or "take a second glance to be sure" perspective, before getting down and shooting (which is what I do). For those that *belabor* the routine (I don't have to mention any pro's names here, but I'm sure you can guess), I agree with you. I've seen players that, during practice, one-stroke everything into the pocket, but when curtain call comes and it's "show time," they slow w-a-y down. That might be an act (read: sharking), or it might be them being uber conservative/careful, or it might be a nervous tic.

I hope this is helpful!
-Sean

All good observations Sean, thanks.

And again, I am referring to the pros that take an awful long time aiming with their cue, getting down on the ball with one eye closed, and then placing an imaginary mark on the object ball with their cue.

Basketball players seem to know where the basket is without a tape measure and scope.

Jim

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