The softer the tip, the more spin you can get? is this accurate.

asbani

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok, these are not my words, and I won't write a very long thread, but they are the words of Florian "Venom" Kohler, he's a pro trick shot player, some people call him the artist when it comes to trick shots, and here's what he said and I quote "The softer your tip is the more spin you can get, or at least you can reach more extreme side of the ball"

he also said "With a hard tip, I cannot hit very far on the left, I would just miscue, so the softer you get the least miscue you will get"

Now my question is, with all the threads I have read on azbilliard, I think azbilliard disgree with him?

Btw, here's the reference for proof, watch the first 40 seconds of the video, he said it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fcrc5Xa-KA
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok, these are not my words, and I won't write a very long thread, but they are the words of Florian "Venom" Kohler, he's a pro trick shot player, some people call him the artist when it comes to trick shots, and here's what he said and I quote "The softer your tip is the more spin you can get, or at least you can reach more extreme side of the ball"

he also said "With a hard tip, I cannot hit very far on the left, I would just miscue, so the softer you get the least miscue you will get"

Now my question is, with all the threads I have read on azbilliard, I think azbilliard disgree with him?

Btw, here's the reference for proof, watch the first 40 seconds of the video, he said it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fcrc5Xa-KA

I'm a "show and tell" kind of guy.

I believe what somebody shows me at the table more than reading something on here.

I want a pool scientist to meet up with Florian and make a video.

I'm assuming Florian has hit the shot thousands of times and "knows" what he "knows".

When a pool scientist has hit the same shot as him thousands of times and shown the results on video, I may change my opinion.
 
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evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
it's not an "all things being equal" scenario, but

"Now, it is possible that a hard tip, especially if it is not holding chalk very well, will have a miscue limit closer to the center than a soft tip that is holding chalk well. In this case, the soft tip will enable a player to apply more spin to the CB since the tip contact point can be farther from the CB’s center without resulting in a miscue."

is worth considering.

personally
I wonder how much of my miscue woes have to do with using a hard(er) tip
I notice when I miscue with the hard tip, the miscued area is much smaller
than if I miscue with a softer tip
indicating, maybe
that the miscue limit can be smaller with a harder tip (easier to miscue)
 

DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm a "show and tell" kind of guy.

I believe what somebody shows me at the table more than reading something on here.

I want a pool scientist to meet up with Florian and make a video.

I'm assuming Florian has hit the shot thousands of times and "knows" what he "knows".

When a pool scientist has hit the same shot as him thousands of times and shown the results on video, I may change my opinion.

Like ESPN sport's science, you don't have the scientist doing the thing they are testing, they get a world class pro and measure him.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
Touch up any good quality tip with a little 220 sandpaper, put/apply some good quality chalk, and spinning is accomplished with practice. Magic mombojumbo is mostly pure BS to sell you something you do no need.

I could grind up peddles from a cactus flowers, dry out, and sell for $19.99 on eBay, as magic cactus dust. Novelty item like the PET ROCK., people buy stupit stuff.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Dr. Dave: "The soft tip [might] enable a player to apply more spin to the CB since the tip contact point can be farther from the CB’s center without resulting in a miscue."
It's easy to misread this. It doesn't mean a softer tip creates more spin wherever you hit the CB - only that it might be able to hit slightly farther from center and create slightly more maximum spin. Not much of a difference to me, even if true.

pj
chgo
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
it might be true with some of the balls that are full of silicon treatment/polished. a hard tip may slip easier if it has not been chalked properly . like hard shoes on ice against a spongy shoe on ice.
but with proper cue balls not tricked out each tip is the same.
and what is more important is that you know how much english exactly you are going to get wherever you decide to hit the cue ball.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's easy to misread this. It doesn't mean a softer tip creates more spin wherever you hit the CB - only that it might be able to hit slightly farther from center and create slightly more maximum spin. Not much of a difference to me, even if true.

pj
chgo

You keep basing YOUR opinions/calculations on YOUR abilities and experience. People with JUST AS MUCH or MORE ability and experience may think/conclude something OTHERWISE.

Have you ever asked Efren, Rodney, Earl, Archer, or anybody else THEIR opinion/conclusions? I've heard them say lots of things that differ from what pool scientists say and they can show you at the table.

Are you of THEIR caliber?

If you say "not much", how much is "not much" in the scientific world?

Or, "generally"...what does that mean? It isn't one way or the other. What is "generally" for you may be all the time for me, or vice versa.

If Florian, who has shot his shot thousands of times, says he gets MORE English on the ball with a soft tip, I'm going with what he says, I'm betting he can hit the cue ball way more precisely than you can and he has set up and practiced his shots, over and over, for thousands of attempts. Have you?
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Touch up any good quality tip with a little 220 sandpaper, put/apply some good quality chalk, and spinning is accomplished with practice. Magic mombojumbo is mostly pure BS to sell you something you do no need.

I could grind up peddles from a cactus flowers, dry out, and sell for $19.99 on eBay, as magic cactus dust. Novelty item like the PET ROCK., people buy stupit stuff.


I would agree with this and perhaps state what he is saying another way: You need that tip to stay "on" the cueball for as long as possible to impart what one might refer to as "maximum english" (right or left, NOT talking draw or follow here). So IMO it is the STROKE that is more responsible for how much right or left one can achieve rather than the cue tip- given, as someone else mentioned, the tip is well maintained and well chalked- it should not matter a hardness rating of say 64 vs. 74. I doubt that the tip hardness difference between a leather tip rated soft vs. a leather tip rated hard has nearly as much effect on the english as does a good quality stroke vs. a poke at the cue ball. Just talking leather tips here and not phenolic or other break/jump tips - those are meant for a completely different usage in pool - not position play.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Have you ever asked Efren, Rodney, Earl, Archer, or anybody else THEIR opinion/conclusions? I've heard them say lots of things that differ from what pool scientists say and they can show you at the table.
I seriously doubt they (or you) can demonstrate "lots of things that differ from what pool scientists say", but I'm interested to see whatever demonstration like that you can post.

pj
chgo
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I seriously doubt they (or you) can demonstrate "lots of things that differ from what pool scientists say", but I'm interested to see whatever demonstration like that you can post.

pj
chgo

I'm happy to show people at the table.

Come on over.

Poi is on me.
 

scsuxci

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I swear i miscue more with a soft tip and less accurate because generally soft tips compress and find them inconsistent. Any hard tip that takes chalk will perform much better in all aspects imho.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I swear i miscue more with a soft tip and less accurate because generally soft tips compress and find them inconsistent. Any hard tip that takes chalk will perform much better in all aspects imho.

Different strokes for different folks.

FWIW, the Ko brothers from Taiwan use "HOW" soft tips.

I rarely see them miscuing.
 

Boxcar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I practice with soft, medium, and hard tip cues. The variable that effects amount of draw for me is follow through. Maybe the soft tip works a little better. But I'm not practicing to see how far I can draw. I try to practice inches of draw, like precise measurements so I can predict where my CB will end up.
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It doesn't mean a softer tip creates more spin wherever you hit the CB - only that it might be able to hit slightly farther from center and create slightly more maximum spin.

sure- agree
but even if spot for spot, a soft tip doesn't create more spin
being able to safely access more of the cue ball
is worth considering

of course this example isn't the same as
"a soft tip creates more spin than a hard tip"

that said
due to a longer contact time
it seems like a soft tip could create (slightly) more (or less) spin
it just might not be perceptible- ?
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
I've been told that. With the ld shafts and the current Simonis cloth, I'll let yah know. I've tried 4 different tips on the same ld shaft over a two week period and none of em allow me to draw my rock, like I know I can. I've got a couple more to try and I'll give you my opinion. One things for sure, I'm no longer able to draw the ball with my new LD shaft, with my Kikel handle with the LePro tips anymore, that's a given. My thinking is the newer cloth has allot less grip, and more slippage? than the Simonis of the 90's. Still looking for the answer. I do tho know, that that Measles ball, does NOT draw back like any of the cue balls I used before they came out, that too may be what's going on.
 
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