Request for rules post
- Thread starter white1
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I couldn't comment on 2 shot rollout, before my time.
The hard part about asking for rules for "Texas Express" is that it's not exactly an official ruleset. I think it represents a movement of rules changes for 8-ball and 9-ball that occurred 40 (50?) years ago that speed up the game for television. Certainly ball-in-hand will be a component.
When someone says "Texas Express" they could be thinking of various official and unofficial league/tournament rules, e.g. WPA, BCA, APA, Valley, TAP, etc. Or they could be thinking of what their local pool scene has agreed to by tradition. There is no official "Texas Express" published ruleset observed today (if ever).
If you're looking for which of the "Texas Express"-like rulesets are most prevalently observed, I'd say WPA is the most official (worldwide).
https://wpapool.com/rules-of-play/
I'd also say BCAPL(CSI) fits within the WPA framework very well and is actually more comprehensive and detailed. I consider it the best ruleset published for that reason.
https://www.playcsipool.com/bcapl-rules.html
In my experiences people have really slowed down on mentioning the term "Texas Express" anymore. I find people will say "You wanna play bar rules or league rules?" more often. I think "League Rules" as a term has mostly replaced "Texas Express" in usage.
The hard part about asking for rules for "Texas Express" is that it's not exactly an official ruleset. I think it represents a movement of rules changes for 8-ball and 9-ball that occurred 40 (50?) years ago that speed up the game for television. Certainly ball-in-hand will be a component.
When someone says "Texas Express" they could be thinking of various official and unofficial league/tournament rules, e.g. WPA, BCA, APA, Valley, TAP, etc. Or they could be thinking of what their local pool scene has agreed to by tradition. There is no official "Texas Express" published ruleset observed today (if ever).
If you're looking for which of the "Texas Express"-like rulesets are most prevalently observed, I'd say WPA is the most official (worldwide).
https://wpapool.com/rules-of-play/
I'd also say BCAPL(CSI) fits within the WPA framework very well and is actually more comprehensive and detailed. I consider it the best ruleset published for that reason.
https://www.playcsipool.com/bcapl-rules.html
In my experiences people have really slowed down on mentioning the term "Texas Express" anymore. I find people will say "You wanna play bar rules or league rules?" more often. I think "League Rules" as a term has mostly replaced "Texas Express" in usage.
Hi Matt
Texas Express are real rules. Played World wide. Published!
Actually WPA 9-ball is Texas Express 9-ball rules.
Hi Ray. What exactly are you looking for? Robin and I would love to help.
TWO SHOT ROLLOUT:
Short version. I player A is shooting at the 3-ball and misses it, Player B can make A shoot again or take the shot.
randyg
I guess my point here is that there are many strong A players in some rural areas around me from a strong gambling background in the 80s and 90s that would play you some “Texas Express” rules and would have never heard of the WPA and would laugh at you if your tried to pull out the WPA rule book to argue a shot. But for the most part are playing those same rules.
And perhaps my other point is that while WPA may be the most official rule set in the Texas Express tradition, it’s worth noting the WPA doesn’t seem to use the phrase “Texas Express” anywhere, ever.
I assume the OP is asking for a reason. I think the context of that reason plays a factor in the response. So I framed my post to hedge on that.
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Very true. I received permission from the Texas Express Group that would allow WPA to copy our rules.
Texas Express was written by:
Robin Adair
John McChesney
Randy Goettlicher
A version of the rules from the Texas Express Group is available at this website:
https://skinnybobs.com/official-texas-express-rules/
I think those exact rules may be used in only a few rooms. I have also seen an earlier or later version of that rule set.
But I think the OP was asking about the differences between the current "no ball spots and BIH for any foul" nine ball and the old style (pre-1980) nine ball that gamblers played with "two foul roll out". I think there have been several discussions of roll-out nine ball recently but briefly:
The second definition was two fouls in a row by the same player. I'm not sure exactly how that worked. Would a shot by one player erase fouls by the other? Or would it have to be a foul by the player who had just fouled and been given back the shot?
(Also back in those days it was not a foul to knock an object ball onto the floor.)
https://skinnybobs.com/official-texas-express-rules/
I think those exact rules may be used in only a few rooms. I have also seen an earlier or later version of that rule set.
But I think the OP was asking about the differences between the current "no ball spots and BIH for any foul" nine ball and the old style (pre-1980) nine ball that gamblers played with "two foul roll out". I think there have been several discussions of roll-out nine ball recently but briefly:
- Any ball made on a foul spots.
- The cue ball when in hand after a scratch is behind the line.
- You can have your opponent shoot again after any foul, such as not hitting the right ball.
- If there are two fouls in a row, the second foul gives up ball in hand anywhere to the seated player.
The second definition was two fouls in a row by the same player. I'm not sure exactly how that worked. Would a shot by one player erase fouls by the other? Or would it have to be a foul by the player who had just fouled and been given back the shot?
(Also back in those days it was not a foul to knock an object ball onto the floor.)
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I remember 2 shot PUSH out.
Any time during the game player A can push out and player B can take the shot or give it back.
We never played safe because your opponent would simply push out.
We always played the second version you describe. Two fouls by same player. If A pushed/fouled and B took the shot then A's foul was erased. If B let him shoot and he fouled again it was BIH for B. We never played two-by-either player.
We played whereby if you accept the shot, you accept the foul. So, shooting after a foul, you are on one.
Huh?? Doesn't make sense to me. Are you saying that if player A fouls/pushes and player B decides to shoot it he's on one foul???? That's ridiculous if that's what you're saying.
On "2 shot rollout": Two players playing 9 ball. Player A breaks, makes a ball and continues his inning. Shoots in the 1 and 2 but rolls short of a shot on the 3. Player A now pushes out. Player B now has the option of taking the shot as left by himself or making Player A shoot the the shot. If he takes the shot himself, and scratches or fouls on the low numbered ball, Player A now has, because 2 fouls in a row have occurred, has ball in hand anywhere on the table. Player B, if he accepts the shot as left, cannot push out himself because this would be 2 fouls in a row giving Player A ball in hand anywhere on the table. If Player B takes the shot and makes it or manages to play a safety, the first foul no longer exists.
I started playing in 1961 and got serious about it in 1973, which is when I learned to play 9 ball as I described. This version is ANY TWO FOULS. In the 25 years I played in the room where I lived I never saw TWO FOULS BY THE SAME PLAYER. Gary Pinkowski was a regular there along with long time friend/road partner Alan K. I talked with both of them quite a bit and they never described the game any other way as far as I can recall. This is 9 ball as I saw it and played until the rules changed in the late '70s/early '80s. I no longer compete at 9 ball and the rule change in one reason why. There are others but......
Have no clue who Pinkowski is but in my area(Okla, Kan, Tex) i've never seen push-out played that way. Different areas had different versions i guess.
He's not on a foul, the table is on a foul. That's one way of looking at it. I thought it was a little strange when I first saw it, but it's as functional as the other way. It puts a little more pressure on the decision whether to take the shot or not.
Gary was (now deceased) a road player turned promoter who started and ran the BC Open 9 Ball Tournament in Binghamton, NY from 1984 or '85 into the early 1990s.
That is exactly right. Playing that form of push-out is more stategic and involves careful thought at times. I was taught that variant of the game during the mid-70s by a pro in Lansing Mi. named Tom Kollins.
A lotta things about pushout are rediculous.