Opinions on 9-Ball Tourney Hill/Hill Controversy

Opinion is if you are going to have vague call pocket rules (which this falls under, what is obvious to one isn't to another) then player A won.

Personally I think it is either call pocket all the time, or never. Leave grey areas then it becomes a shit show.

The shooter should have called it. But at the same time, anyone who would call foul on their opponent on a shot as such is a fookin nit in my book.

Let us not forget, the seated player has the option to ask if there is any confusion as to what the player at the table is going to shoot, and should have done so had there been any actual doubt. Waiting until after they make a bank that they were obviously shooting, only to call foul? That is pretty much the textbook definition of a chickenshit nit trying to win by the rules.

Any pool scene that I have ever been a part of, shit like that would get you ridiculed and run off toot sweet. :thumbup:

On one hand, you do not call it.........well, you did not call it. You lose.

On the other hand, you stated the "obvious".......well, to some that bank may have been the obvious shot.

Given both players are "A" players, the bank should have been obvious if it was a really, really tough cut.

Bottom line for me:

If its gonna be call "anything"..........then call it no matter how easy or obvious it is.....end story.....end drama or at least helps.

And as someone else said, NIT.

Rake

ChrisinNC said:

We had a big 9-ball tourney yesterday for our regulars. In the final match, where the difference between 1st and 2nd place was over $500, in the hill/hill game, player A was left with a tough cut in the side pocket or a side pocket bank shot on the 9-ball. Rules are strict call pocket on the 9-ball except when it is absolutely obvious - such as a bank, carom, or sharp cut, which are not obvious. Player A failed to call his pocket, but made the bank shot in the side.

His opponent, player B, claimed he did not call his pocket, which he admitted, but claimed it was obvious where he was playing it. A conflict ensued, whereby player A claimed it was clear where he was playing it - both players were "A" ranked players. After a short argument, player A said to spot the 9-ball and for player B to shoot. Player B missed but left him tough. Player A then missed and left a fairly easy shot and raked the balls and stormed out, claiming he was robbed. Ruling was made in favor for player B. Opinions regarding the correct call in this situation? - Thanks

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Player A won...it was a straight bank....player B wins because he's bad action. Should have,just conceded the match. Bad action gets no action. If you gotta win like that word gets around.

ChrisinNC said:

So the consensus here is that player A screwed up by not calling the pocket on the bank shot on the 9-ball, so if player B chooses to call him out for failing to call his pocket, the 9-ball would then be spotted and it is player B's shot, and the tournament director would have no choice but to enforce this rule. Others have gone as far as to say it's the observing opponent's responsibility to interrupt the shooter before they shoot, to confirm what pocket their opponent is planning to play the 9-ball in. And if the pocket is not called and the shot is made, and player B enforces this stated rule that the pocket was not called, player B will have his reputation questioned, be shunned upon, and be considered a "nit". You've got to love this game to truly understand this stuff!

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To me, its call everything no matter how obvious it is ..........or.........you do not have to call it.

The "only when not obvious" is where the problem comes in. Everyone's perception of an angle is different, not to mention how some are NITS.

Like I said, better just to agree to call all 9 balls or agree to not call anything. Not half, all or nothing.

Rake

Chuck Fields said:

The shooter should have called it. But at the same time, anyone who would call foul on their opponent on a shot as such is a fookin nit in my book.

Let us not forget, the seated player has the option to ask if there is any confusion as to what the player at the table is going to shoot, and should have done so had there been any actual doubt. Waiting until after they make a bank that they were obviously shooting, only to call foul? That is pretty much the textbook definition of a chickenshit nit trying to win by the rules.

Any pool scene that I have ever been a part of, shit like that would get you ridiculed and run off toot sweet. :thumbup:

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I kinda agree with ya, but on the other hand.... I did this a few years back. The team we were playing were bangers. They guy I was playing was on the eight. To be honest, not even sure how he ever got to the eight. But, he had a tough cut in the side, which most bangers would take cause it was only a diamond away from the side pocket. The right shot would be in the corner pocket, as the pocket would be playing at 4.75 inches versus, maybe less than 3 inches based on the angle to the side pocket. It was tight.

Well, he gets down, and I have no idea where he's shooting it. Heck, he could even be banking it, I don't know, and the guy was pretty awful. So, I ask him what he's calling. He says the side pocket, and missed by a mile.

His teammates accuse me of sharking him, and that the shot was obvious. I said it was not, because the angle, the side pocket was a very tough shot, and I would have shot it in the corner. And that I was only worrying about my "average" and just hated to lose?

Brutal. But, it seems no matter what you do, you lose sometimes. I even offered him to shoot the shot again, but he has to shoot in the side pocket. I don't think he could make it 1 out of 20. A good player would have been 50/50. They refused, as they would not get to b1tch and moan after he missed, again

ChrisinNC said:

You would think among fellow "regular" tournament players, there would be some degree of trust and respect, that obvious 9-ball shots need not be called, just as is common respect shown among straight pool players not to call very obvious shots. If there is any question at all as to whether a ball (9-ball) could be played in more than one possible pocket, that pocket without question needs to be called, every time. Any player with any level of common sense knows that is the rule.

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Chris, you are talking about pool players here. If you give them an opportunity to take advantage, one of them will for sure! I would think that someone who has years of experience in the pool world would realize that Call Shot Sometimes is ripe for controversy. Maybe where you are there is an alternate Universe of 100% honorable pool players. I have yet to visit such a place. :thumbup:

ChrisinNC said:

Yeah, I know - it's just very sad. After all this, I think I may go back to old 9-ball rules where anything goes - no need to ever call anything. Only rule difference I will keep for our tournaments is that you can't win with making the 9-ball on the break. I just don't feel that's fair.

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Play ten-ball then. Making the 9 on-the-snap is part of the excitement. Nine-ball has a luck factor, always has so why try to re-invent the wheel?

ChrisinNC said:

If there is any question at all as to whether a ball (9-ball) could be played in more than one possible pocket, that pocket without question needs to be called, every time. Any player with any level of common sense knows that is the rule.

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I disagree with this part. Lots of shots can have more than one choice, and be obvious at the same time. The way I like to interpret the “obvious shot” rule (which is DEFINITELY open for interpretation), is if it goes where the shooter is obviously playing it. Example: the OB is on the spot, the CB is in the dead center of the table. You can shoot it to whichever corner makes you comfortable. If I don’t call it, but swish it into one of the corners, I would have violated your rule. That’s crazy.

Does everyone remember the ESPN matches with called 9? How pros ran out, made the 9 and were told,it didn't count. That made pool look ridiculous. Well it is ridiculous at times.

franko said:

I agree with this. It is not that hard to say or point to your pocket.

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That's it right there.. if there's two potential pockets, call it. Player B might be
nitty calling A out, but that's the rules they're playing.

Runner said:

That's it right there.. if there's two potential pockets, call it. Player B might be
nitty calling A out, but that's the rules they're playing.

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I think both players probably believed they were playing by the rules. Obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Can’t have rules with so much subjectivity.

I thought everybody was playing Texas Express these days for exactly this reason.

Was the opponent calling every shot? Did the ball double kiss and slop in? Nobody in the pool hall knows what a bank shot is?

pt109 said:

A...I think player A is very careless

B...I think player B is a nit

C...I don’t like call-shot 9-ball....:angry::angry::angry:

Brings out the bar rules crowd

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Amen, Reverend!

ChrisinNC said:

Rules are strict call pocket on the 9-ball except when it is absolutely obvious - such as a bank, carom, or sharp cut, which are not obvious.

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Are these rules in writing somewhere?

I wouldn't call it "strict" call pocket if there are many exceptions.

If these rules aren't in writing that carefully word the exception cases, then you'll continue to have problems.

garczar said:

Play ten-ball then. Making the 9 on-the-snap is part of the excitement. Nine-ball has a luck factor, always has so why try to re-invent the wheel?

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Tap tap tap.

If the 9 is intended to be called pocket, allowing exceptions is just asking for this kind of issue. I wasn't there but my sense is that the shooter made it in the pocket he was going for and the opponent was taking advantage.

Again though..make it a mandatory call. How many times has a side pocket bank been missed only to come off the rail and land in the opposite side pocket? You may feel stupid calling a tap in 9 shot but it's hardly a burden to point your cue as you take your stance to pop that last ball in.