Line-Up
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Line-Up - 06-13-2020, 05:15 PM

I’m a mediocre to not very good 14.1 player but I really enjoy the game (both watching tournaments and playing).

I did find the rules on Line-Up which the BCA rules say is a forerunner of 14.1. It also appears to be a better option for novice straight pool players in that there’s no ‘continuous’ aspect.

The rules are a bit sketchy in the BCA regarding when the balls are lined up. Need to clarify if balls are spotted after the shooter completes his turn, or after all 15 are made?

Thanks for the info on this rarely played game.

Last edited by cjr3559; 06-13-2020 at 05:19 PM.
  
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06-14-2020, 08:30 AM

I think the answer is right in the rules, I missed the italicized text in parentheses:

‘If a player misses or fouls during the rack, he records his score and incoming player shoots, accepting the table in position.’


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06-14-2020, 02:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjr3559 View Post
I’m a mediocre to not very good 14.1 player but I really enjoy the game (both watching tournaments and playing).

I did find the rules on Line-Up which the BCA rules say is a forerunner of 14.1. It also appears to be a better option for novice straight pool players in that there’s no ‘continuous’ aspect.

The rules are a bit sketchy in the BCA regarding when the balls are lined up. Need to clarify if balls are spotted after the shooter completes his turn, or after all 15 are made?

Thanks for the info on this rarely played game.
Actually, ‘lineup’ IS a ‘continuous’ game. The only difference being the ‘breakshot’ CB position leave (after the 15th ball is pocketed) is usually designed to pick off a ball from the end of the string, and eventually break up the string. Like with 8 ball, most every town likely had it’s own peculiar rules, but I seem to remember back in the 50s, we kids would spot everything we pocketed after a miss, and hardly anyone was good enough then to run out, and thus have to spot all 15 at once (though that is apparently the official rule now). I think we also played it like a ‘short rack’ game, to only 10 or 15 points.
  
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06-14-2020, 03:27 PM

I've not seen line up played in over 30 years, but I'm going to have to disagree that it's a more suitable game for a novice than 14.1. No game played on a pool table is better than 14.1 at providing a foundation for learning, making it an ideal game for any developing player.

Regardless, if line up is a game you really like, you should continue to play it. Enjoy!
  
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06-14-2020, 04:26 PM

Geez, early memories flooding back now:
If I recall (no guaranty), we young kids started ‘Lineup’ with an open (winner) break, and anything not called that dropped was counted. I don’t think we even knew there WAS such a thing as an official rule book back then! We also didn’t know from ‘safety’ (like with ‘barroom’ 8 ball), and about the only penalized foul was a scratch. I actually think if you made your called shot, but also knocked a ball off the table, you just spotted it and kept shooting. Any miscue that didn’t travel far was considered a ‘Mulligan’, and you could shoot again.
Those were the days, huh?
  
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06-14-2020, 09:18 PM

Here are the rules for Line Up from the 1977 rule book. I doubt that anyone has sought fit to fix them in the last 43 years. They do reference the rules for 14.1 (poorly) so I suppose any changes there were brought in later.

No explicit mention is made of three fouls in a row.

The break shot is described but no mention is made of requiring the cue ball to touch a rail after contact. Presumably a bank shot to the back of the rack is OK.

Under the scoring items, it is apparent that the writer was unaware of negative numbers. Since negative numbers were understood and accepted fairy well around the year 1000 by the people who were doing algebra, it must be that line up predates that.
LINE-UP POCKET BILLIARDS
THIS game is played with fifteen object balls, numbered from 1
to 15, and a cue ball. Object balls are racked on the foot spot,
as in 14.1 continuous pocket billiards. (See Diagram No. 11.)
Starting player has cue ball in hand. It is a call shot game,
players being required to call the ball and the pocket.
Each ball legally pocketed gives the scorer credit for one
point. All balls pocketed on a legally called shot count, the
player getting one point for each ball.
Game is an agreed upon number of points-it can be 25, 50,
100, or whatever score agreed upon.
69
Start of Play: Rotation of play can be determined by lag or lot.
Winner of lag has option of breaking or assigning break to his
opponent.
Starting player must pocket a called ball in the rack or drive
two object balls to a cushion. Failure to do so is a foul. Offending
player forfeits two points. Opponent can require that
offender break again until he complies with the break shot requirements.
Player loses two points for each successive failure.
Subsequent Play: After the legal break shot, if starting player
has not scored, incoming player accepts balls in position. He
must call his shots—ball and pocket—on all strokes. Player continues
until he misses. At the conclusion of his inning, he
records his points, and all balls he scored are spotted on the
long string line. (See Diagram No. 9.)
If player scores all fifteen balls, they are spotted on the string
line and he continues play, shooting cue ball from where it
came to rest after preceding stroke.
Penalties: When a player fouls, he is penalized one point. Only
one penalty is imposed, however, if the player fouls more than
once on the same stroke.
General Rules: The rules for 14.1 continuous pocket billiards
apply to line-up pocket billiards. Balls scored on foul strokes do
not count. Penalties are paid out of the player's score. If he has
no points at time of foul, he owes a point, which is deducted
after he scores.


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06-15-2020, 09:53 AM

My rules are from the 2017-18 BCA edition, but after reading Mr. Jewett’s post, it’s still unclear on whether you spot after your miss, or after all 15 are off the table. Ultimately it’s up to the competitors to decide (of which there are probably 12 active in the entire world).

This game seems a bit rinky dink in the grand scheme of pool games, but what makes it appealing for the not very good straight pool player as myself is that it bypasses the angst of struggling to get a good break shot on the 15th ball and dealing with picking at the rack for a dozen turns until someone breaks through the traffic. I suppose with Line-Up you’re still dealing with clusters but not as much.

At this point in my game, I average around 115 in three ball-in-hand per inning Equal Offense, so my game isn’t nearly developed enough to get through a rack very well.

Gots lot to learn!
  
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06-15-2020, 10:03 AM

I've enjoyed line up as a "controlled stroke/position" exercise for many years.
Contacted Bob Byrnes years ago about some rule info, but he hadn't seen it played in a long time - as with all of us! Such a nice guy & great part of pool history.
(Bob Jewett, thanks for your part in that.)
I always just lined them up and took ball in hand to start, then played in continuous fashion thereafter. Lots of useful situations & problem solving come up.
There are a lot of scratch angles awaiting those whose lack of patience leads them to attempt over exuberant break outs. (What else is new?!)
"Certain" productive break shot position is a finer area than 14.1 (imo).
Have fun!!


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06-15-2020, 10:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjr3559 View Post
... Mr. Jewett’s post, it’s still unclear on whether you spot after your miss, or after all 15 are off the table. ...
Bob's post said: "Player continues until he misses. At the conclusion of his inning, he records his points, and all balls he scored are spotted on the long string line."

A miss ends your inning, so you'd spot after the miss, right?
  
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06-15-2020, 11:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
Bob's post said: "Player continues until he misses. At the conclusion of his inning, he records his points, and all balls he scored are spotted on the long string line."

A miss ends your inning, so you'd spot after the miss, right?
Yes, but the 2017-18 BCA rules state:

‘If a player misses or fouls during the rack, he records his score and incoming player shoots, accepting the table in position.’

Sounds like what was made stays down.

Nevertheless, I’ll go with Bob’s ‘77 version where you line up what you make after a miss. More logical.

The modern rules may have not been proofread and omitted the whole point of the game.
  
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line em up - 06-15-2020, 12:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjr3559 View Post
My rules are from the 2017-18 BCA edition, but after reading Mr. Jewett’s post, it’s still unclear on whether you spot after your miss, or after all 15 are off the table. Ultimately it’s up to the competitors to decide (of which there are probably 12 active in the entire world).

This game seems a bit rinky dink in the grand scheme of pool games, but what makes it appealing for the not very good straight pool player as myself is that it bypasses the angst of struggling to get a good break shot on the 15th ball and dealing with picking at the rack for a dozen turns until someone breaks through the traffic. I suppose with Line-Up you’re still dealing with clusters but not as much.

At this point in my game, I average around 115 in three ball-in-hand per inning Equal Offense, so my game isn’t nearly developed enough to get through a rack very well.

Gots lot to learn!
Yes line up was the original form of Straight Pool, and yes anything you read from the bca will look sketchy - they are a fake news sketchy outfit for sure.


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06-15-2020, 06:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjr3559 View Post
... The modern rules may have not been proofread and omitted the whole point of the game.
Yes, I suspect that's what happened. Byrne also described the game in one of his books. He evidently played it a lot. There is a sort of trick kiss shot you can play into the last spotted ball if it's against the line and not too far from the cushion.

I think the hotbed for line-up moved to Canada. I recall a run (by a well known player whose name I can't recall right now) in the 300s. Where is PT109 when you need him?


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06-16-2020, 08:53 AM

First I've heard of it and the rules are vague. Do the balls on the string have to be frozen? Spotted from the middle outward?

Sounds like a drill. Run all the balls off the string line. Spot them up and run them again.
  
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06-16-2020, 01:04 PM

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Originally Posted by alstl View Post
First I've heard of it and the rules are vague. Do the balls on the string have to be frozen? Spotted from the middle outward?

Sounds like a drill. Run all the balls off the string line. Spot them up and run them again.
They get spotted as close as possible down the long string and are frozen to any balls along the line. Once the foot rail is reached you work from the spot and up the table. At least that’s what I understand.
  
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06-16-2020, 05:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjr3559 View Post
They get spotted as close as possible down the long string and are frozen to any balls along the line. Once the foot rail is reached you work from the spot and up the table. At least that’s what I understand.
That is the standard procedure at pool for spotting balls.


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