Cte banking question

C

Cpreacher3

Registered
Let’s say you have a cross corner bank that you know would be a 15 and outside at a little more than pocket speed. But you can’t hit locket speed you have to hit hard for position. How do you compensate without using side spin? Would it cause you to have to change the sweep from an outside to an inside? Thanks
 
L

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cpreacher3 said:
Let’s say you have a cross corner bank that you know would be a 15 and outside at a little more than pocket speed. But you can’t hit locket speed you have to hit hard for position. How do you compensate without using side spin? Would it cause you to have to change the sweep from an outside to an inside? Thanks
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I am not, repeat NOT, a CTE instructor whatsoever. I am merely a student.
But my guess is that you change the sweep to inside as you stated. That's what I'd do.
Stan is a terrific banker.
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Cpreacher3 said:
Let’s say you have a cross corner bank that you know would be a 15 and outside at a little more than pocket speed. But you can’t hit locket speed you have to hit hard for position. How do you compensate without using side spin?
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This question can't be answered without more info about how you're hitting the bank. Are you hitting the OB straight on, cutting "inside" the bank angle (toward a potential kiss) or cutting it the other way?

Then the answer is to cut it thinner or thicker depending on the answer to that. This is true whatever system you use and whatever method it teaches you to thin or thicken the cut.

pj
chgo
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
This question can't be answered without more info about how you're hitting the bank. Are you hitting the OB straight on, cutting "inside" the bank angle (toward a potential kiss) or cutting it the other way?

Then the answer is to cut it thinner or thicker depending on the answer to that. This is true whatever system you use and whatever method it teaches you to thin or thicken the cut.
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Welcome back, Pat.

When did you get out of "jail?"

Dave

PS: For those interested in learning how to adjust for different factors with bank shots (including inside and outside cuts), regardless of the "aiming system" being used, see:

bank and kick shot effects to be considered
 
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Ralph Kramden

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
Thanks, Dave. I was paroled on Friday (I think). Going to spend my time here making reparations for my past unforgivable behavior.

pj <- yeah, right :grin:
chgo
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A Carp vs a lawyer?
One's a bottom dwelling scum sucker.
The other is a fish.

Welcome back PJ... Seize the day

.

.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
This question can't be answered without more info about how you're hitting the bank. Are you hitting the OB straight on, cutting "inside" the bank angle (toward a potential kiss) or cutting it the other way?

Then the answer is to cut it thinner or thicker depending on the answer to that. This is true whatever system you use and whatever method it teaches you to thin or thicken the cut.

pj
chgo
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Whichever method you use to change your aim, the object will be to hit the rail a little more toward your target pocket (make the bank angle a little wider) - because shooting harder tends to “shorten” a bank (make the bank angle steeper).

pj
chgo

P.S. The exception to this is when the OB is very close to the rail (within a few inches) - because the OB can't start rolling in that short distance even at slower speed, and without that "natural roll" follow on the OB the bank will go shorter with or without higher speed. In fact, more speed might make it go a little longer. :eek:
 
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Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Dan White said:
I know this is getting off topic, but PJ did I read that right? If I stun an ob into the rail under what scenario will it bank wider when hit harder?
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Dr. Dave and Bob Jewett posted a video once that showed their test: 2 OBs frozen together (to eliminate aiming error) near the rail (to eliminate forward roll at all speeds), when hit harder actually banked a couple inches wider. They theorized that the faster banked OB compressed the cushion more and traveled farther along it before rebounding.

Maybe one of them will see this and point out that vid.

pj
chgo
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
Dr. Dave and Bob Jewett posted a video once that showed their test: 2 OBs frozen together (to eliminate aiming error) near the rail (to eliminate forward roll at all speeds), when hit harder actually banked a couple inches wider. They theorized that the faster banked OB compressed the cushion more and traveled farther along it before rebounding.

Maybe one of them will see this and point out that vid.

pj
chgo
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Videos demonstrating this and every other kick and bank effect can be found here:

kick and bank shot effects that must be considered

The specific videos you mention are under the "Speed" section. Here they are:

HSV B.41 - bank speed effects, with Bob Jewett

NV B.95 - Post-rebound spin, angle, and curve for stunned kicks and banks

Enjoy,
Dave
 
L

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Since it's CTE again....here we go again

If CTE is being executed the proper way, 15, 30, or 45, will pocket all makeable shots on the table.
With banks, spin gets into the picture in places...but it's still 15-30-45 perception points.
No need for calculators, formulas, or complexities.
No, I am not an instructor.
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Low500 said:
If CTE is being executed the proper way, 15, 30, or 45, will pocket all makeable shots on the table.
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Yes, but to be clear, each of those "perceptions" actually includes up to 30 degrees of cut angles when you include the "inside" and "outside" pivot adjustments. On top of that, banks usually have to be hit more precisely than non-banks (because they're longer shots).

Not "attacking" CTE - just clarifying terms.

pj
chgo
 
M

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
CTE takes you to the geometric bank. Very often a stun into the rail is going to pocket the ball just fine. From here if you apply more factors such as speed, spin and playing conditions, experience will be the best judge. I’m not aware of a useful situation where you’d change the CTE alignment for a given shot.
 
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