Attitudes towards practice

Sure have, and with some it's a skill level thing. The higher SL the more they are apt to get to the practice table (for the most part). I can tell if a student has put in what I told them to or not. Even with lessons sometimes. I think sometimes (especially the younger ones) they look at good pool and don't connect it with the boatloads of practice time, study and competitive play it takes; they think they should be running back to backs in a year. They don't know what they're looking at. It's like looking at a really nice car, they don't know yet what a Ferrari costs (not that my game is a Ferrari; but they don't even know the cost of a car). Even when I tell them I mostly get the "yea-yea, sure sure".

yes i have also noticed this....and i always say that the lesson will be close to pointless unless they practice what they learned...most people think if they take a lesson that they will instantly become better pool players .. unfortunately it doesnt work like that...
we as instructors can point the way but u guys have to put in the hard work and time just like any other sport

every single pool player gets exactly as good as they are willing to get.

softshot said:

every single pool player gets exactly as good as they are willing to get.

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This is true with a stipulation, if you add on to this .........given the time, money, availability of a pool table and many other considerations like life in general, a mate, spouse, kids and having to make a living........ that is what really stymies those of us that would play, practice & study all day everyday; just sayin.

Which is why it is important to develop a professional relationship with the student, in order to monitor their progress and encouraging them to see the need to practice the fundamental elements you are teaching.

Depending upon the student you may have to modify your lessons, and your practice regimes to fit them in their situation.

Unfortunately if you have done this and they are still not successful a hard talk needs to happen, as they are wasting their money.

I think we all count our success by our students progress and not our pocketbook.

Tony_in_MD said:

Which is why it is important to develop a professional relationship with the student, in order to monitor their progress and encouraging them to see the need to practice the fundamental elements you are teaching.

Depending upon the student you may have to modify your lessons, and your practice regimes to fit them in their situation.

Unfortunately if you have done this and they are still not successful a hard talk needs to happen, as they are wasting their money.

I think we all count our success by our students progress and not our pocketbook.

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Have you ever advised a student they are wasting their money having more lessons?

PGHteacher said:

This is true with a stipulation, if you add on to this .........given the time, money, availability of a pool table and many other considerations like life in general, a mate, spouse, kids and having to make a living........ that is what really stymies those of us that would play, practice & study all day everyday; just sayin.

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Thank you for proving my point.. you listed sacrifices most are not willing to make..

but reality says you don't need "all day everyday " to make progress you only need 2hours or so per day.. and I say just about everybody can restructure their lives to get 2hours a day 5 times a week..if they really want to..

most people are simply not willing to make that happen... those folks will never become good players. so sell them a predator and some kamui chalk and wish them luck...

I think this is quite simple. The vast majority of people are looking for the silver bullet, the quick fix, instant gratification, etc.. If the "younger generation" has a problem today, IMHO, it is the fact we (The older generation) made so many things so easy for them. They also grew up in the time where "everyone wins", "everyone gets a trophy", blah, blah, blah. So they were taught they could be champions when in fact, all too many weren't even mediocre. No tough love.

It really is a matter of personal drive and priorities. I started my dedication to pool later in life after the children grew up and my financial well being was in place. I couldn't begin to put the practice hours, I put in now, 10 years ago. At least for me, priorities such as family and professional/financial came in higher. Of course, I could have prioritized differently but divorce, delinquent children and foreclosure were potential consequences of doing so.

Since this is the "Ask The Instructors" forum, I would add this. I think for people who don't have 8 hours or more per day to bang balls around and learn by trial and error, it is essential to have solid/good instruction. If you're practice doesn't yield evident, measurable results, staying motivated to continue to practice is going to be quite difficult. With that said, I think a big part of being a good instructor is providing the student with the right set of tools for their given skill set and capabilities so that, if used and practiced, will yield evident, measurable results. I don't know for sure but I would guess that is a non trivial task as it means each student will be somewhat unique. You can't take a complete cookie cutter approach. I also think part of the instructor's task is to provide that student with at least a rough outline of what their practice sessions should be.

These things are why I am so quick to praise Scott Lee. I frankly didn't practice much after my first lesson with Scott. My bad. When Scott came back for the second lesson and I saw how little I progressed in the video, with my stroke fundamentals, I was somewhat ashamed. I practiced diligently after the second lesson and in 5 months went from a low 5 to a very strong 6 in our local APA league. More importantly, I could see incremental improvements as I practiced. I saw results in my competitive play. At the recent 3rd lesson, while there were still some visible stroke flaws, the improvements were significant. Scott identified these flaws quickly, revisited some of the old "Mother Drills", provided me with new, fun drills to work on and gave me substantial new knowledge to put in my tool kit that I believe would have been wasted at the previous lesson but was appropriate for where I'm at right now. Aside from his vast knowledge of the game, Scott has the enthusiasm, patience and simply a gift for teaching.

Not in those words, more like, we cannot go any further with these lessons until you have mastered..

TheThaiger said:

Have you ever advised a student they are wasting their money having more lessons?

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FranCrimi said:

If you don't enjoy practicing, do you find yourself finding reasons not to practice?

Do you really know yourself?

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As a student, I dont "love" to practice, but its more fun if I'm keeping track of something or competing against myself. For example, if I wanted to practive by playing the 4 ball ghost, its more "fun" if I move a piece of chalk up and down the diamonds depending on if I won or lost (and try to get the chalk one full loop around the table).

The student should probably be responsible for his own motivation, but the instructor might give the student some tricks to help the student "create" motivation if it could be a problem. ?

To be honest who enjoys practice? I don't! It takes patience, focus and determination to excel. I'd like to make Time for at least 1 hour a day.

Does it happen everyday? No. Yes I have excuses... 3 kids, full time job, husband a home to care of plus family and friends. So ok I'd say on some days I only practice for 10 balls. That's it. At the end of the Week maybe I have put in 14 - 20 hours. Sounds like a lot but it's not all practice just play play for the most part. At best I may have 3 hours if it be Real Practice. So I could do better.

Now we just started our 2 second season with APA. I'm still a solid 2. But theses last few months people have been starting to notice my progress. People are getting mad when I come in and smoke it. Last Monday I left my opponent with 7 points at the end of our match. I'm still working on my progress. I do what I can. When coach talks I listen and I try my best to execute and make him proud.

I do beat myself for not doing more.

I would rather quit if I felt I did not make progress. But that's not me. I'm a glutton for punishment.
Loren

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This is exactly why I get frustrated with the standard forum proclamation "get some lessons" or "go see an instructor".

I fully realize that any sort of real instruction in any endeavor requires regular practice. Consistent, regular practice.

And if a person is not in the position to put that kind of time in, it isn't going to be very successful. At least not like it should be.

I want to get the instruction, and to be able to spend the time it takes to make it work.

I don't know that I personally am thrilled with the actual practice, but I know how important it is. I just wish I could do more of it.

I am one of the gluttons who will practice 8-12 hours a day if I could.... I used to run a room when I was 19-26 so table time was free... I spent more days practicing than I can remember... Even when I went to college I made friends or deals with the owners of the rooms and some days I would show up even before they were open and stay until they closed....

I think this was ingrained in me at a young age... I had grown up around the drag strip and race cars... You NEVER took a car to a big race until you had it tuned in and all of the bugs worked out of it.....

My dad had reinforced that idea in me at 16 when we played in a ring game at the local pool room... He broke it and as we were leaving he handed me back my money and told me "I don't ever want to see you gambling again until you are good enough and can actual play.... It's like taking a car to the race knowing it has a miss in it and thinking you are going to win... It doesn't happen..."

Every time I think about that I go hit more balls... Even in top gear my limit is $100 sets usually... I just think about the advice and I know that I still have some tuning left before I am ready for a big race....

Maybe I won't ever get all the bugs out or win a big race but I am definitely willing to put the time in when life allows me the luxury of time again.......

FranCrimi said:

I'm thinking that maybe a person's enthusiasm for practicing is a personality issue where it doesn't matter if it's pool or something else ---Their attitude would be the same.

That doesn't mean that I'm thinking that someone can't change their attitude towards practicing. I think they can, but I'm wondering if it requires a personality adjustment rather than trying to discover more interesting ways to practice, which I have found to be temporary solution that eventually reverts back to the same problem.

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Agree here 100 % with you-- that s also my expirience. All points Tony shown up i also agree with.

And for the reasons you have shown up (Fran ^^)- i *now* stay away from trying myself forcing a student to practice. He has to have the necessary attitude-and it s not *my job* to enlighten his fire.

It took me a bit longer to *get myself back* to try to get the student to *practice* more.

And since i say clearly, that i just work with a student with monitoring his practice and success, it s much easier. Very few end very soon-and the other guys appreciate it. Good for both sides.

lg
Ingo

I too am a very low level skill. I am no teetering between a solid two and a weak three, go up one week and down the next, but I adore the practice. I see my progress and the growth of my consistency, makes me want to practice more to see how far I can get. I grew up with practice ingraned, I started piano lessons at four years old....... Loved the piano so didn't mind the practice. The more I fall in love with pool, the more I adore the practice too.

I practice almost every day that I'm not playing in a league and I guess what I do is practice. I usually play Fargo with a focus on developing a consistent approach to every shot, staying down, following through, etc.

It takes a tough loss (like last night) for me to set up and practice a specific shot repeatedly. Otherwise, I just don't have to motivation to do it. I realize that this means that my progress will be much slower than it could be. But whatever... I'm not playing pool to win the esteem of other people.

I believe it all comes down to answering these three questions that gauges a person current outlook about playing pool which will affect their motivation.

Why are you playing pool?
What do you want out of playing pool?
How does playing pool fit into your life?

There are right or wrong answers. These questions made me think, ponder, meditate, or whatever you call deep thinking, about my pool playing.

I'm 58 and returned to pool as a way to get out of the house and not go to a bar. Kids were raised and so on. I have the time.

It was after playing a few years, mostly local handicap tourneys, that I noticed my game was not improving. I was putting in the practice time. But my win rate was just not improving.

It was during this period I thought of those three questions, and started pondering them and the role, if any, pool was to have in my life.

Slowly, the answers made themselves apparent to me. Now, practice is nothing more than going for a walk in the park to me. I enjoy everything about being at the table, both good and bad. Pool is no longer something I play, but something that is part of my day just like doing the dishes.

Pool serves a multitude of purposes to people. As such not everyone will have the same motivation to improve. At some point in their life, priorities can change. Now, that social player wants to improve because conditions in their lives allow for this. Maybe this is that student you had that didn't seem to appear to learn anything, but now is remembering what you taught them. You really never know the long term influence you can have on a person even when you think they are not paying attention.

I put in 3-4 hours a day. I look forward to being at the table. I was recently away from playing for 8 days and when I got to the table it was like meeting up with a old friend.

This attitude didn't just happen, but devollped over time from me soul searching those three questions.

It really doesn't matter how well you play, but that you find pleasure your playing. Once that happens, well pool is fun.