How to develop a "trigger"

J

johnnysd

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been trying the SPF method of playing and it is not really working for me at all. The biggest issue for me is that the pause before the stroke and the pause at the back of the stroke are so foreign to me, and I just feel frozen, without any smoothness of rhythm to my stroke.

I need to find some sort of trigger for these steps to help. SPF fits me so poorly that the process of "trying" to pause has almost caused me to develop the pool yips. Instead of being smoother, its like the lost time of the pause is causing me to sometimes make up for that time by being every quicker and jabbier than before.

In a gold swing you have the waggle for a long swing or forward press in putting but I have not found an analogy in pool.

Just as an FYI I have hit thousands of shots trying to get it down but not really working especially under pressure. I dislike the eye motion as well, none of it seems to fit me at all.

THoughts, if any?
 
Buzzard II

Buzzard II

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Have you read about SPF here, or elsewhere? Or did you take the full blown course? The mantra may seem silly but as a nuance, not talked about much, pulls it all together. I have made some minor changes to mine and now even the eye pattern blends right in.

Many thanks to Randy and Scott, for not giving up on me.
 
F

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
johnnysd said:
I have been trying the SPF method of playing and it is not really working for me at all. The biggest issue for me is that the pause before the stroke and the pause at the back of the stroke are so foreign to me, and I just feel frozen, without any smoothness of rhythm to my stroke.

I need to find some sort of trigger for these steps to help. SPF fits me so poorly that the process of "trying" to pause has almost caused me to develop the pool yips. Instead of being smoother, its like the lost time of the pause is causing me to sometimes make up for that time by being every quicker and jabbier than before.

In a gold swing you have the waggle for a long swing or forward press in putting but I have not found an analogy in pool.

Just as an FYI I have hit thousands of shots trying to get it down but not really working especially under pressure. I dislike the eye motion as well, none of it seems to fit me at all.

THoughts, if any?
Click to expand...

Yeah. The pause before the stroke is easy because it doesn't interfere with your timing. It's the transition from back to forward that causes players some grief sometimes. I like Bert Kinister's description of a stroke. He says it's like throwing a punch at someone. You wind up slowly and then let it go. That might help.
 
S

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
John...Anything that "feels" uncomfortable to you, will be...until you practice it enough for it to take the place of what you used to do. SPF is only about 'finding' your own pauses...and TRAINING your eyes, brain and body to work together most efficiently. One does not need a long pause on the end of backswing, as I demonstrated to you. However, if you have ZERO pause your transition will be poor. You exaggerate the pauses initially, which is the easy method of training yourself to do something different. While SPF may not be for everyone (we think it is), you only have to look at your friend's wife to see the improvement possible.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

johnnysd said:
I have been trying the SPF method of playing and it is not really working for me at all. The biggest issue for me is that the pause before the stroke and the pause at the back of the stroke are so foreign to me, and I just feel frozen, without any smoothness of rhythm to my stroke.

I need to find some sort of trigger for these steps to help. SPF fits me so poorly that the process of "trying" to pause has almost caused me to develop the pool yips. Instead of being smoother, its like the lost time of the pause is causing me to sometimes make up for that time by being every quicker and jabbier than before.

In a gold swing you have the waggle for a long swing or forward press in putting but I have not found an analogy in pool.

Just as an FYI I have hit thousands of shots trying to get it down but not really working especially under pressure. I dislike the eye motion as well, none of it seems to fit me at all.

THoughts, if any?
Click to expand...
 
J

johnnysd

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Scott Lee said:
John...Anything that "feels" uncomfortable to you, will be...until you practice it enough for it to take the place of what you used to do. SPF is only about 'finding' your own pauses...and TRAINING your eyes, brain and body to work together most efficiently. One does not need a long pause on the end of backswing, as I demonstrated to you. However, if you have ZERO pause your transition will be poor. You exaggerate the pauses initially, which is the easy method of training yourself to do something different. While SPF may not be for everyone (we think it is), you only have to look at your friend's wife to see the improvement possible.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
Click to expand...

Hi Scott

I understand that, and I realize the pauses are individual in timing. And I have practiced it several thousand times, but I just cant get a feel at all for a way to start forward after the pause on the backswing. It is frustrating because I feel completely lost playing pool now and my play has dropped several levels from actually practicing to the point I just really don't want to play really anymore. And I still cant figure out the grip. I appreciate your lesson but you seem more interested in saying why SPF is better than actually helping. I will have to "dig it out of the dirt" as Hogan said and find my own way again.
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
FranCrimi said:
I like Bert Kinister's description of a stroke. He says it's like throwing a punch at someone. You wind up slowly and then let it go. That might help.
Click to expand...
That's a good one...

Another description that I like is to imagine drawing a bowstring back slowly, holding it for a second or two while you focus on the target, and then releasing it.

pj
chgo
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
johnnysd said:
I have been trying the SPF method of playing and it is not really working for me at all. The biggest issue for me is that the pause before the stroke and the pause at the back of the stroke are so foreign to me, and I just feel frozen, without any smoothness of rhythm to my stroke.

I need to find some sort of trigger for these steps to help. SPF fits me so poorly that the process of "trying" to pause has almost caused me to develop the pool yips. Instead of being smoother, its like the lost time of the pause is causing me to sometimes make up for that time by being every quicker and jabbier than before.

In a gold swing you have the waggle for a long swing or forward press in putting but I have not found an analogy in pool.

Just as an FYI I have hit thousands of shots trying to get it down but not really working especially under pressure. I dislike the eye motion as well, none of it seems to fit me at all.

THoughts, if any?
Click to expand...

How about a 2-second pause before the final and slow pull at least?
 
Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
How about a 2-second pause before the final and slow pull at least?
Click to expand...


Cisero Murphy.....if I remember correctly, very pronounced.

Great baseball pitchers have a similar delivery/pause/timing when they wind Up before the pitch.
 
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One Pocket John

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
johnnysd said:
I have been trying the SPF method of playing and it is not really working for me at all. The biggest issue for me is that the pause before the stroke and the pause at the back of the stroke are so foreign to me, and I just feel frozen, without any smoothness of rhythm to my stroke.

I need to find some sort of trigger for these steps to help. SPF fits me so poorly that the process of "trying" to pause has almost caused me to develop the pool yips. Instead of being smoother, its like the lost time of the pause is causing me to sometimes make up for that time by being every quicker and jabbier than before.

In a gold swing you have the waggle for a long swing or forward press in putting but I have not found an analogy in pool.

Just as an FYI I have hit thousands of shots trying to get it down but not really working especially under pressure. I dislike the eye motion as well, none of it seems to fit me at all.

THoughts, if any?
Click to expand...

I can tell you what Mark Wilson teaches in his clinic. Goes like this,

At the final pause at the cue ball as you bring the cue back say to yourself "ladies", as the cue stops on the back swing say to yourself "and", as the cue moves forward say to your self "Gentlemen" the tip strikes to cue ball.

"Ladies and Gentlemen" may create the pause your looking for.

Works for me. Do this on about 10 shots (saying the words) and then don't think about it anymore. Just start shooting and see if it starts happening naturally.



John :)
 
J

johnnysd

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Appreciate all the feedback. An active pause just does not work for me. I never played that way and to be honest not super interested in starting now. A 2 second pause will never align with my game.

That said, the pause is there to smooth the transition and stopping does not do that for me as an "active" concept.

There is no question that the cue changes direction and that being smooth and repeatable is critical to pool, but not as an active thought process. The same concept is true in golf but no golfer teacher teaches an active pause.

What has been working for me is to visualize the transition as the top of a roller coaster drop where you slow down and almost stop at the peak and then smoothly accelerate as you start to descend.
 
Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
johnnysd said:
Appreciate all the feedback. An active pause just does not work for me. I never played that way and to be honest not super interested in starting now. A 2 second pause will never align with my game.

That said, the pause is there to smooth the transition and stopping does not do that for me as an "active" concept.

There is no question that the cue changes direction and that being smooth and repeatable is critical to pool, but not as an active thought process. The same concept is true in golf but no golfer teacher teaches an active pause.

What has been working for me is to visualize the transition as the top of a roller coaster drop where you slow down and almost stop at the peak and then smoothly accelerate as you start to descend.
Click to expand...

I look at the ''pause'' as the top of your swing, it's when the arm transitions from backward movement too forward. When first learning it's important to understand what the arm ''throwing'' movement is doing.
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Island Drive said:
When first learning it's important to understand what the arm ''throwing'' movement is doing.
Click to expand...
Don't know if we're talking about the same thing, but I find it helpful to imagine I'm throwing the cue underhanded at the CB - it helps me find the (mostly elbow) position that produces a "natural" straight stroke at all speeds.

pj
chgo
 
Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
johnnysd said:
I have been trying the SPF method of playing and it is not really working for me at all. The biggest issue for me is that the pause before the stroke and the pause at the back of the stroke are so foreign to me, and I just feel frozen, without any smoothness of rhythm to my stroke.

I need to find some sort of trigger for these steps to help. SPF fits me so poorly that the process of "trying" to pause has almost caused me to develop the pool yips. Instead of being smoother, its like the lost time of the pause is causing me to sometimes make up for that time by being every quicker and jabbier than before.

In a gold swing you have the waggle for a long swing or forward press in putting but I have not found an analogy in pool.

Just as an FYI I have hit thousands of shots trying to get it down but not really working especially under pressure. I dislike the eye motion as well, none of it seems to fit me at all.

THoughts, if any?
Click to expand...

I'd watch a pro event where they have camera angles that are behind the players during their shot routine. Just FF till you find one. I was curious years ago about this during the Camel Pro Tour years, and videoed every players hand from the back side during play. It didn't interfere with their moment and you'll find that interesting and some common aspects of all their shot executions, I also did that at Reds/Houston early 80's when I had a concern with my grip of the handle, that was a Huge/Needed change, took 3 months to incorporate playing 30 hrs a week at that time, till I never thought about it again. Good luck.
 
3kushn

3kushn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mark Wilson challenged folks on his FB page to disregard success in pocketing and only concentrate on stroke. Additionally there should be no practice strokes. Do your PSR, once down, pull back, and deliver.

I'm not an instructor but you might consider adding to the above an exaggerated pause before delivery.

The pause became more comfortable to me by exaggerating it. 2-3 seconds. 5 seconds? why not. The idea is to get comfortable with delivering a fore stroke from a paused position. (can't think of the word) Pull back, stop then......... deliver the smoooothest freakin stroke to the CB.

Stroke alone will win you games. Keep that in mind. At least it does in 3Cushion.

The Eyes??? Eye Pattern/Quiet Eye Scott first taught me then others taught me this and its one of the top 5 things I've ever learned.
It's huge.
The Pause is also on that same list.

Keep at it. It'll come on horse back if you work at it.
 
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Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
3kushn said:
... The pause became more comfortable to me by exaggerating it. 2-3 seconds. 5 seconds? why not. The idea is to get comfortable with delivering a fore stroke from a paused position. (can't think of the word) Pull back, stop then......... deliver the smoooothest freakin stroke to the CB.

Stroke alone will win you games. Keep that in mind. At least it does in 3Cushion. ...
Click to expand...
It is certainly important, but how many top three cushion players can you think of who have a significant pause -- like even half a second -- at the back of their strokes?
 
3kushn

3kushn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
It is certainly important, but how many top three cushion players can you think of who have a significant pause -- like even half a second -- at the back of their strokes?
Click to expand...

I don't have an answer to your question since I haven't spent time looking at that feature. Lately what I've noticed although is some of the top players have what we're calling a compact stroke. Kind of surprising to me.

My point of my post really is just another idea to eliminate that New strange feeling of the total pause before delivery. A painfully long pause when training on this, allows me at any rate, to concentrate on the delivery, and eliminates the strange feeling when playing with a 2-3millisecond pause.

Simply a painfully slow pull back may be another way to get this going comfortably.
 
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