League -Getting a foul called on you that you know isn't.....

Dont sweat it, punks dont even know what nefarious is.

If your intent was to carom and only graze one of your group for a legal hit, get a ref (neutral observer) before the shot.

That's a tough one. Ideal would be to have someone watch for the hit if it's going to be close, but sounds like you weren't intending it to be that close so I can see why you didn't.

Sometimes thems the rolls. I would tell the opposing team the truth, you absolutely saw contact made with the object ball as it was going into the rail. If they still want to call a foul that's their prerogative as it can't be proven otherwise at this point. Then just accept their decision with grace knowing that you made a good hit and they're taking advantage of the situation and not trusting your call.

One thing I love about the small in-house league I play in is if this happened I'm 95% sure in every case I'd be given the benefit of the doubt from the other team. As would every other player in the league.

You didn't specify which league. But, some of them state that it's the shooters call if there wasn't a neutral observer.

While practicing 9-ball I will get into safety battles with myself. I had the thought the other day on a successful return kick-safe: “Boy, I saw/heard the CB nip the object ball but I can easily imagine my opponent not believing me.” I was imagining how that’d go. The timing is a bit Baader-Meinhof.


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You did the right thing, one shot doesn’t define the match, turn up the heat and beat them on the table.
Ask your team for help and to focus more on the table.

DelawareDogs said:

You're right, I should have gotten someone. Honestly thought the hit was going to be clear as day. Even what really happened, to me, seemed clear as day. I guess I should recognize who my opponent is and the general definitions they may be interpreting.

I'll know better next time!

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I have had a very similar event which almost led to a fistfight. The problem with a shot like you are describing is you can end up calling for watchers on every single unusual shot. Which is kind of stupid.

The APA rule, when a neutral observer is not called is the decision rests with the shooter. However, this is hard to implement when the other team has a bunch of hot heads and punks. Sometimes giving ball in hand is the only way to move forward in cases like this (or just pack up and go home).

In my case the fist fight almost broke out after we had given the opponent ball in hand. They opponent continued to *****, and I finally told him to shut the f**k up as we had given him ball in hand.

That really set him off.

It was good of you to give up the cue ball, very sportsman like, and on any normal league
night probably best to avoid a volatile situation, but to me that's pretty much admitting
that the call they made was the correct one. One thing that I always tell the less
experienced players is don't get muscled (not that you're less experienced). Stick to
your guns, be strong until we can figure out exactly what happened. Don't lie or cheat,
but don't be so quick to give up the table. If the shooter thinks it's worth another look
then let's have another look, if need be we can always give up the table after that.

The Marvin Manalo shot

I think a very similar shot had a lot to do with Marvin Manalo quitting pool. A young gun from the Philippines, he was setting the world on fire. He tried to thin a ball very thin near the rail then nudge it again coming off the rail. He was very sure that he did just that and in all fairness nobody in the world had a better look at it than he did.

When the call went against him he felt he was being called a liar and his honor questioned. Wrecked him and he lost that match then quickly lost his match on the one loss side. Never seemed to really recover from that.

Normally the way the balls react tell rather it is a good hit or not. Shots like this, the balls react the same or very nearly the same good hit or bad. Those that have played long have all brushed balls without moving them. It is possible. Moving them a gnat's ass then hitting them again on the way out is also possible.

This is one of the tougher things to move past but bad calls will happen to all of us, gotta roll with it. A very close call with two balls almost touching jammed into the corner pocket and the cue ball only an inch away, I called the tournament director over to watch. I attempted to masse into my ball, a foul was called. I wasn't real surprised, I was playing the tournament director at the time!

Hu

The opponent calls a ref you don't.

If you know you hit it, then you stand your ground.

The call goes to the shooter when there are 2 versions. There should not be an argument.

All the other concerns are bullshit.

If you both choose an impartial witness that's fine, but they may rule against you.

Im a stickler for the rules, but in this exact scenario, I'd be disappointed that I didn't make a better shot and feel it's deserving for me to lose my turn. Sometimes being a stickler for the rules could make you feel desperate and unconfident, can't have that.

SBC said:

The opponent calls a ref you don't.

If you know you hit it, then you stand your ground.

The call goes to the shooter when there are 2 versions. There should not be an argument.

All the other concerns are bullshit.

If you both choose an impartial witness that's fine, but they may rule against you.

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This is the Code.

If the OP is fair as he says, and the hit was good, the phrase one says is "It looked good to me," as they walk away. There is no argument.

If the hit was going to be so close, it is your opponent's imperative to call for a neutral observer, not the Shooter's. Any questionable calls are always settled in the Shooter's favor.

To hand over BIH is in the least, an admission of doubt that this hit could have been good.

An unscrupulous player will try to deny a foul to aid their advantage. A seasoned player will stand by the call because he knows the hit is a good one, and because unobserved hits play to their favor.


p.s.- I once saw a "savvy" player call a bad hit from their chair, with the Shooter's body obscuring the shot from them, and bully an inexperienced player into surrendering BIH. Don't be that victim.

DelawareDogs said:

8 ball - Last night I had my night ruined due to an incident. I'll keep it short as I can.

I'm three rail kicking out of an unintentional safety, to hit one of two balls.

The kick goes long and ends up going long and a 4th and 5th rail, looking like I caught the ball only on the way out, and no rail.

***However, going in, I grazed my ball, hit the rail, then hit the ball again. I'd swear it on my life that it was a good hit. Of course only the opposing team sees it, they all call foul as does the player I'm playing.

After only two back and forths, I pick up the cue and hand him ball in hand. It's just league, after all.

I'm the type of person that will call a foul on myself no matter what the circumstance. I did it at the Expo *while my opponents back was turned!*

What bothers me most is that these young punk kids, who couldn't spell POOL if I spotted them the two O's, now think I have some nefarious intent. When the reality is I'm one of the more seasoned people that goes there Mondays and everyone but this new group knows it.

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Shame on your team members for not having your back and paying attention to witness your shot. As the shooter, it is your call to make and you should have stood your ground if you knew you were right.

Next time tell those punk kids to get off your lawn.

Not sure what league you're in, but as another poster mentioned, in APA, in the lack of a designated referee to make the call, disputed calls go to the shooter.

Usually, nobody on the opposing team will have a better vantage point from which to see the hit unless the opponent is (in unsportsmanlike manner) standing at the table.

I can understand your yielding the foul just to keep things from getting even more heated, but would caution that doing so can be inferred by the opponent team as admitting guilt and that you were trying to get away with something - which will only make it harder to stand your ground the next time when it might be on a shot whose outcome has more impact (playoffs, etc).

Best bet if you think there's even a remote chance it could be questionable is to get someone to referee (and hope they're competent - had a match in an APA singles regional to go to Vegas where a referee ruled a shot of mine a foul when both I and my competitor were certain it was a good hit (fortunately my competitor ignored the ruling by the ref in good sportsmanship and proceeded to shoot from where the cue had lain rather than taking ball in hand)).

Regardless of what rules apply in your specific situation, and who actually IS the referee with the final say (your opponent or an unbiased judge, etc.), if the hit looks very difficult, an observer will often form a preconceived opinion of it’s likelihood and subconsciously ignore what actually occurs, not to mention disregarding the traditional rule that anytime a hit is too close to call, the ‘benefit of the doubt’ should always go to the shooter. Thus are the pitfalls of playing less knowledgable opponents, and likely unavoidable in contemporary competition.