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The ones who cried all day about the betrayal of the Kurds hopefully learn something - 10-14-2019, 04:50 PM

Trump’s Syrian Maneuver Works – President Erdogan Asks for Negotiations With Kurds in Syria

by sundance


President Trump has played this out perfectly. By isolating Turkish President Recep Erdogan, and effectively leaving him naked to an alliance of his enemies, Erdogan is now urgently asking for the U.S. to mediate peace negotiations with Kurdish forces.

This request happens immediately after President Trump signed an executive order [See Here] triggering the sanction authority of Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin. Erdogan called the White House requesting an urgent phone call with President Trump.

After President Trump talked to Kurdish General Mazloum Kobani Abdi, the commander of the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces, President Trump then discussed the options available to President Erdogan. As a result of that conversation, Erdogan requested the U.S. mediate negotiations. Vice-President Mike Pence announces he will be traveling to the region with National Security Advisor Robert O’Brien to lead that effort.



[Executive Order]

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) (NEA), section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 (8 U.S.C. 1182(f)), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,

I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, find that the situation in and in relation to Syria, and in particular the recent actions by the Government of Turkey to conduct a military offensive into northeast Syria, undermines the campaign to defeat the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, endangers civilians, and further threatens to undermine the peace, security, and stability in the region, and thereby constitutes an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States. I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat. I hereby determine and order:

Section 1.

(a) All property and interests in property that are in the United States, that hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of any United States person of the following persons are blocked and may not be transferred, paid, exported, withdrawn, or otherwise dealt in:

(i) any person determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State:

(A) to be responsible for or complicit in, or to have directly or indirectly engaged in, or attempted to engage in, any of the following in or in relation to Syria:

(1) actions or policies that further threaten the peace, security, stability, or territorial integrity of Syria; or

(2) the commission of serious human rights abuse;

(B) to be a current or former official of the Government of Turkey;

(C) to be any subdivision, agency, or instrumentality of the Government of Turkey;

(D) to operate in such sectors of the Turkish economy as may be determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State;

(E) to have materially assisted, sponsored, or provided financial, material, or technological support for, or goods or services to or in support of, any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order; or

(F) to be owned or controlled by, or to have acted or purported to act for or on behalf of, directly or indirectly, any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order.

(b) The prohibitions in subsection (a) of this section apply except to the extent provided by statutes, or in regulations, orders, directives, or licenses that may be issued pursuant to this order, and notwithstanding any contract entered into or any license or permit granted before the date of this order.

Sec. 2.
(a) The Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of the Treasury and other officials of the U.S. Government as appropriate, is hereby authorized to impose on a foreign person any of the sanctions described in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, upon determining that the person, on or after the date of this order:

(i) is responsible for or complicit in, has directly or indirectly engaged in, or attempted to engage in, or financed, any of the following:

(A) the obstruction, disruption, or prevention of a ceasefire in northern Syria;

(B) the intimidation or prevention of displaced persons from voluntarily returning to their places of residence in Syria;

(C) the forcible repatriation of persons or refugees to Syria; or

(D) the obstruction, disruption, or prevention of efforts to promote a political solution to the conflict in Syria, including:

(1) the convening and conduct of a credible and inclusive Syrian-led constitutional process under the auspices of the United Nations (UN);

(2) the preparation for and conduct of UN-supervised elections, pursuant to the new constitution, that are free and fair and to the highest international standards of transparency and accountability; or

(3) the development of a new Syrian government that is representative and reflects the will of the Syrian people;

(ii) is an adult family member of a person designated under subsection (a)(i) of this section; or

(iii) is responsible for or complicit in, or has directly or indirectly engaged in, or attempted to engage in, the expropriation of property, including real property, for personal gain or political purposes in Syria.

(b) When the Secretary of State, in accordance with the terms of subsection (a) of this section, has determined that a person meets any of the criteria described in that subsection and has selected one or more of the sanctions set forth below to impose on that person, the heads of relevant departments and agencies, in consultation with the Secretary of State, as appropriate, shall ensure that the following actions are taken where necessary to implement the sanctions selected by the Secretary of State:

(i) agencies shall not procure, or enter into a contract for the procurement of, any goods or services from the sanctioned person; or

(ii) the Secretary of State shall direct the denial of a visa to, and the Secretary of Homeland Security shall exclude from the United States, any alien that the Secretary of State determines is a corporate officer or principal of, or a shareholder with a controlling interest in, a sanctioned person.

(c) When the Secretary of State, in accordance with the terms of subsection (a) of this section, has determined that a person meets any of the criteria described in that subsection and has selected one or more of the sanctions set forth below to impose on that person, the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State, shall take the following actions where necessary to implement the sanctions selected by the Secretary of State:

(i) prohibit any United States financial institution that is a U.S. person from making loans or providing credits to the sanctioned person totaling more than $10,000,000 in any 12-month period, unless such person is engaged in activities to relieve human suffering and the loans or credits are provided for such activities;

(ii) prohibit any transactions in foreign exchange that are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and in which the sanctioned person has any interest;

(iii) prohibit any transfers of credit or payments between banking institutions or by, through, or to any banking institution, to the extent that such transfers or payments are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and involve any interest of the sanctioned person;

(iv) block all property and interests in property that are in the United States, that hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of any United States person of the sanctioned person, and provide that such property and interests in property may not be transferred, paid, exported, withdrawn, or otherwise dealt in;

(v) prohibit any United States person from investing in or purchasing significant amounts of equity or debt instruments of the sanctioned person;

(vi) restrict or prohibit imports of goods, technology, or services, directly or indirectly, into the United States from the sanctioned person; or

(vii) impose on the principal executive officer or officers, or persons performing similar functions and with similar authorities, of the sanctioned person the sanctions described in subsections (c)(i)–(c)(vi) of this section, as selected by the Secretary of State.

(d) The prohibitions in subsections (b) and (c) of this section apply except to the extent provided by statutes, or in regulations, orders, directives, or licenses that may be issued pursuant to this order, and notwithstanding any contract entered into or any license or permit granted before the date of this order.

Sec. 3.
(a) The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State, is hereby authorized to impose on a foreign financial institution the sanctions described in subsection (b) of this section upon determining that the foreign financial institution knowingly conducted or facilitated any significant financial transaction for or on behalf of any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to section 1 of this order.

(b) With respect to any foreign financial institution determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in accordance with this section, to meet the criteria set forth in subsection (a) of this section, the Secretary of the Treasury may prohibit the opening, and prohibit or impose strict conditions on the maintaining, in the United States of a correspondent account or a payable-through account by such foreign financial institution.

(c) The prohibitions in subsection (b) of this section apply except to the extent provided by statutes, or in regulations, orders, directives, or licenses that may be issued pursuant to this order, and notwithstanding any contract entered into or any license or permit granted before the date of this order.

continued...


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10-14-2019, 04:51 PM

...from page 1


Sec. 4.
The unrestricted immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens determined to meet one or more of the criteria in subsection l(a) or 2(a) of this order, or aliens for which the sanctions under subsection 2(b)(ii) have been selected, would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and the entry of such persons into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, is hereby suspended, except where the Secretary of State determines that the entry of the person into the United States would not be contrary to the interests of the United States, including when the Secretary so determines, based on a recommendation of the Attorney General, that the person’s entry would further important United States law enforcement objectives.

In exercising this responsibility, the Secretary of State shall consult the Secretary of Homeland Security on matters related to admissibility or inadmissibility within the authority of the Secretary of Homeland Security. Such persons shall be treated in the same manner as persons covered by section 1 of Proclamation 8693 of July 24, 2011 (Suspension of Entry of Aliens Subject to United Nations Security Council Travel Bans and International Emergency Economic Powers Act Sanctions). The Secretary of State shall have the responsibility for implementing this section pursuant to such conditions and procedures as the Secretary has established or may establish pursuant to Proclamation 8693.

Sec. 5.
I hereby determine that the making of donations of the types of articles specified in section 203(b)(2) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1702(b)(2)) by, to, or for the benefit of any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to section 1 of this order would seriously impair my ability to deal with the national emergency declared in this order, and I hereby prohibit such donations as provided by section 1 of this order.

Sec. 6.
The prohibitions in sections 1 and 2 of this order include:

(a) the making of any contribution or provision of funds, goods, or services by, to, or for the benefit of any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order; and

(b) the receipt of any contribution or provision of funds, goods, or services from any such person.

Sec. 7.
(a) Any transaction that evades or avoids, has the purpose of evading or avoiding, causes a violation of, or attempts to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.

(b) Any conspiracy formed to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.

Sec. 8.
For the purposes of this order:

(a) The term “entity” means a partnership, association, trust, joint venture, corporation, group, subgroup, or other organization;

(b) the term “foreign financial institution” means any foreign entity that is engaged in the business of accepting deposits, making, granting, transferring, holding, or brokering loans or credits, or purchasing or selling foreign exchange, securities, commodity futures or options, or procuring purchasers and sellers thereof, as principal or agent. The term includes depository institutions, banks, savings banks, money service businesses, trust companies, securities brokers and dealers, commodity futures and options brokers and dealers, forward contract and foreign exchange merchants, securities and commodities exchanges, clearing corporations, investment companies, employee benefit plans, dealers in precious metals, stones, or jewels, and holding companies, affiliates, or subsidiaries of any of the foregoing. The term does not include the international financial institutions identified in 22 U.S.C. 262r(c)(2), the International Fund for Agricultural Development, the North American
Development Bank, or any other international financial institution so notified by the Secretary of the Treasury;

(c) the term “knowingly,” with respect to conduct, a circumstance, or a result, means that a person has actual knowledge, or should have known, of the conduct, the circumstance, or the result;

(d) the term “person” means an individual or entity;

(e) the term “United States person” or “U.S. person” means any United States citizen, permanent resident alien, entity organized under the laws of the United States or any jurisdiction within the United States (including foreign branches), or any person in the United States; and

(f) the term “Government of Turkey” means the Government of Turkey, any political subdivision, agency, or instrumentality thereof, or any person owned or controlled by or acting for or on behalf of the Government of Turkey.

Sec. 9. For those persons whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order who might have a constitutional presence in the United States, I find that because of the ability to transfer funds or other assets instantaneously, prior notice to such persons of measures to be taken pursuant to this order would render those measures ineffectual. I therefore determine that for these measures to be effective in addressing the national emergency declared in this order, there need be no prior notice of a listing or determination made pursuant to this order.

Sec. 10.
The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State, is hereby authorized to take such actions, including the promulgation of rules and regulations, and to employ all powers granted to the President by IEEPA as may be necessary to carry out the purposes of this order. The Secretary of the Treasury may, consistent with applicable law, redelegate any of these functions within the Department of the Treasury. All departments and agencies of the United States shall take all appropriate measures within their authority to implement this order.

Sec. 11.
The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State, is hereby authorized to submit the recurring and final reports to the Congress on the national emergency declared in this order, consistent with section 401(c) of the NEA (50 U.S.C. 1641(c)), and section 204(c) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1703(c)).

Sec. 12.
(a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

DONALD J. TRUMP


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10-14-2019, 05:09 PM

The economic sanctions are much more effective than any military response that our forum hawk Sofla could ever imagine.




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10-14-2019, 05:45 PM

But but but his name is on the Trump towers in Istanbul. LMAO
  
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10-14-2019, 06:31 PM

Companies like Bosch may end up rethinking their manufacturing plants in Turkey if it becomes too unstable.


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10-14-2019, 06:54 PM

What the f is this? He let the Turks free lots of IS prisoners and kill Kurds, then flip-flops and imposes economic sanctions? What possible motive could he have for this nonsense? He effectively alienated everyone, both the Kurds and the Turks. If he really needs the Turks in Nato, this is not the way to do it. He risks chasing them into the Arms of Putin.

I'm trying to see an end-game here, some sort of long term strategy, but I really can't. Obviously bowing to the Turks could be seen as a way to ensure their future cooperation in Nato operations in the Middle East. This strategy is now completely ruined, if that ever was the plan. Short term, probably nothing dramatic will happen, but this will be in the back of their minds for sure. They allready cooperated with the Russians before. The Kurds, now burned, will be sure to look for other alliances and be difficult to work with. Good luck getting favours from them now, they'll be wary.

This all leaves the Russian/Syrians in charge of further developments, not forgetting indipendent Saudi backed extremist nutbags and thousands of IS fighters on the loose, with no one to reign them in. Complete chaos...Trump is even worse than I ever feared. I obviously always doubted his diplomatic abilities, but always thought he'd have someone to at least advice him properly. Is that what this is? Did someone panic and try to repair the disaster at the last moment? If so, it was clumsy and far too late. The damage has been done. He's a drunken elephant in a china store. We all remember that quote from the Batman movie: "Some men just want to watch the world burn". Is that what this is? If not, I don't know what.

On this forum you all seem to want all the Americans back home, and I get it, I really do. But those few soldiers who were stationed with the Kurds were doing the work of THOUSANDS of soldiers, by keeping the Turks from attacking, and allowing the Kurds to keep their safe haven. The Kurds were not only allowing various ethnic groups to coexist, but keeping ACTUAL TERRORISTS (not freedom fighters labeled as such) behind bars. What do you have soldiers for, if not to prevent terrorism, and how could anything be more effective than that arrangement. A few soldiers stationed with thousands?

The IS cat is out of the bag now and it will be far from easy to put it back in, if it's even possible.

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10-14-2019, 06:56 PM

why is the USA the police of the middle east? let the European countries deal with this for a few decades...…...
  
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10-14-2019, 07:00 PM

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Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 View Post
What the f is this?
No American lives sacrificed, Erdogan exposed, Kurds align with another endless war country.


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10-14-2019, 07:01 PM

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Originally Posted by michael4 View Post
why is the USA the police of the middle east? let the European countries deal with this for a few decades...…...
Because, if Germany and Merkel are any example, the European countries are willing to throw the doors wide open to "refugees", who will NOT integrate... And in 30-40 years will RULE those European countries?

All in the name of falling birthrates and the need to keep workers in the factories....
  
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10-14-2019, 07:03 PM

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Originally Posted by PRED View Post
No American lives sacrificed, Erdogan exposed, Kurds align with another endless war country.
I'm sure those IS guys won't do anything bad, once Turkey lets them loose on the world.
  
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10-14-2019, 07:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 View Post
I'm sure those IS guys won't do anything bad, once Turkey lets them loose on the world.
Kurds will keep killing ISIS, with the Russian's help. I see no problem at all and celebrate our POTUS making genuine efforts to end our involvement in these endless wars.


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10-14-2019, 07:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 View Post
What the f is this? He let the Turks free lots of IS prisoners and kill Kurds, then flip-flops and imposes economic sanctions? What possible motive could he have for this nonsense? He effectively alienated everyone, both the Kurds and the Turks. If he really needs the Turks in Nato, this is not the way to do it. He risks chasing them into the Arms of Putin.

I'm trying to see an end-game here, some sort of long term strategy, but I really can't. Obviously bowing to the Turks could be seen as a way to ensure their future cooperation in Nato operations in the Middle East. This strategy is now completely ruined, if that ever was the plan. Short term, probably nothing dramatic will happen, but this will be in the back of their minds for sure. They allready cooperated with the Russians before. The Kurds, now burned, will be sure to look for other alliances and be difficult to work with. Good luck getting favours from them now, they'll be wary.

This all leaves the Russian/Syrians in charge of further developments, not forgetting indipendent Saudi backed extremist nutbags and thousands of IS fighters on the loose, with no one to reign them in. Complete chaos...Trump is even worse than I ever feared. I obviously always doubted his diplomatic abilities, but always thought he'd have someone to at least advice him properly. Is that what this is? Did someone panic and try to repair the disaster at the last moment? If so, it was clumsy and far too late. The damage has been done. He's a drunken elephant in a china store. We all remember that quote from the Batman movie: "Some men just want to watch the world burn". Is that what this is? If not, I don't know what.

On this forum you all seem to want all the Americans back home, and I get it, I really do. But those few soldiers who were stationed with the Kurds were doing the work of THOUSANDS of soldiers, by keeping the Turks from attacking, and allowing the Kurds to keep their safe haven. The Kurds were not only allowing various ethnic groups to coexist, but keeping ACTUAL TERRORISTS (not freedom fighters labeled as such) behind bars. What do you have soldiers for, if not to prevent terrorism, and how could anything be more effective than that arrangement. A few soldiers stationed with thousands?

The IS cat is out of the bag now and it will be far from easy to put it back in, if it's even possible.
Really, you have the balls to tell us Americans to go fight wars, while your socialist European countries sit on their ass.

NEWS FLASH: many of those ISIS fighters are from European countries.

They are YOUR responsibility.




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10-14-2019, 07:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WGDave View Post
Really, you have the balls to tell us Americans to go fight wars, while your socialist European countries sit on their ass.

NEWS FLASH: many of those ISIS fighters are from European countries.

They are YOUR responsibility.
NEWS FLASH:
I don't have to tell the US to fight any wars. You are pretty good at starting them yourselves. Also, my countrys soldiers have fought besides yours in every one of your BS wars and have even been stationed with the Kurds and flown countless bomber missions in Libya. Hows that for sitting on our asses?

I'd have been in Afghanistan myself, if not for my Army contract being up at the time that was starting. Many of my friends went. Cooperation is how an alliance works and this is why (BS wars besides) this has been one of the most peaceful eras of mankind. Of course if you just wreck everything and then tells everyone else it's their problem now, that's not how alliances work.

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10-14-2019, 07:25 PM

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Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 View Post
NEWS FLASH:
I don't have to tell the US to fight any wars. You are pretty good at starting them yourselves. Also, my countrys soldiers have fought besides yours in every one of your BS wars and have even been stationed with the Kurds and flown countless bomber missions in Libya. Hows that for sitting on our asses?

I'd have been in Afghanistan myself, if not for my Army contract being up at the time that was starting. Many of my friends went. Cooperation is how an alliance works and this is why (BS wars besides) this has been one of the most peaceful eras of mankind. Of course if you just wreck everything and then tells everyone else it's their problem now, that's not how alliances work.
How many troops are you pulling out at this time?




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10-14-2019, 07:26 PM

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Originally Posted by WGDave View Post
How many troops are you pulling out at this time?
Not sure. They're Spec ops guys, so it's classified. Not sure how many are actually in Syria or if they're in Iraq now. They're training with and reinforcing the Kurds, that is for sure. I know because my former Regiment has been involved (they're more like infantry type guys), as well as more secret parts of the Army.

Last edited by Straightpool_99; 10-14-2019 at 07:31 PM.
  
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