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  (#16)
asiasdad
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06-15-2011, 04:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ribdoner View Post
Only OP can post in FS/T thread. There are other forums to promote, schill or crap

Bump at minimum 72 hr intervals

Seller is responsible for delivery unless other arrangements are agreed to in writing

Quote:
Originally Posted by maidenfreak View Post
Split Wanted and For Sale into two sections. Wanted section anyone can post, For Sale section you must be a paid member to post a new thread. Will weed out a lot of the scammers and with enough substantiated complaints the membership is pulled and no more posting. Just a suggestion.
I agree with much of what has been suggested above.

The OP should be the only one to post on something for sale.
The wasted bandwidth on commentary could be used more productively,
like on PM's from people with questions that the OP could answer/update
their for sale listing if they so choose.

I like the 72 hour restriction on bumping, and that could be easily
enough handled by the sites programmers (ie: you must wait
2:05:55 hrs before bumping thread again)

Seller responsible for paying shipping/insurance charges. The
price listed must include this factor.


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  (#17)
cuesblues
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06-15-2011, 05:21 PM

Bad deals with one side unsatisfied after several PM's, phone calls, and emails, need to be posted in the WFS, without the fear of it being moved or deleted.
If the thread is unreasonable and several are, the OP will find out real quick, and look very bad after the dust settles.
Itrader shouldn't be accessed unless there was a deal completed.
If the deal went a little bad and money / cues were returned, that was not a completed deal.
Itrader is what it is, but I don't think that buying a raffle spot or a bet, is enough of a deal to obtain positive Itraders, so the Itrader rating is not very accurate in some instances....reference tassadicts.
For the few times a year a member receives a negative Itrader for no reason other than spite, the mods should remove the negatives.
That is assuming that the administrator or moderator understands the situation correctly, and makes the logical decision.

Although few deals on AZ go totally bad, there have been more in the last 2-years than ever due to the economy.
Buyers and sellers need to really look at more than just Itrader, and rep.
Personalities have a lot to do with these deals as well.
We can't rely on the AZ system to tell us if a guy is honest but nuts, common sense has to prevail at some point.
Back in the day it was hard to do business on AZ unless a well respected member would vouch for you.
With all of the newbies coming on this forum just to sell their stuff, some migrating over from Ebay trying to turn this into an auction site, buyers need to be more careful than ever.
It is still on us, not the AZ administrators.
I like the escrow idea, but only on expensive items like a cue worth over $2000.00.
Lately I've seen sellers taking "highest bid" on $200 items.
What's up with that?
That is one thing the mods really need to put a stop to.
This is not Ebay
  
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  (#18)
Kickin' Chicken
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06-15-2011, 05:46 PM

Mike and all;

Unless there is some monumental reason (eg legal, death threats, etc.) Please Do Not Remove Threads. Even if there seems to be a good reason, when possible, remove the violative/offensive post(s) and lock it down.

Threads involving deals that have gone bad do need to be on display and a dedicated sticky is a great place where to put them.

It would be entirely too complicated for mods to try and arbitrate deals gone bad. And I, too, agree that forming a committee would be frought with peril and pitfalls (always wanted to sneak this in somewhere).

A while back, we discussed splitting wanted and for sale into two sections as a possible way to relieve some of the high traffic in the forum. I like this idea a lot!

Turning lemons into lemonade:

Requiring a paid club membership for those who wish to be able to post new threads in the For Sale section, to me, is a no brainer. It will not entirely fix the problem of deals going bad but it promises to reduce these unpleasant occurrances, maybe even dramatically.

First, a membership fee will turn away the vast majority of people who come here looking to prey on someone.

Second, the Azers who have to buy a membership in order to sell here would, no doubt, feel like they have more of a stake in how all of the business dealings go and that they wouldn't want people crapping in their store aisles.

A dedicated sticky can include all threads involving bad transactions that, after giving them a fair chance, the parties could not come to a satisfactory resolution. Lock these threads, and display them for everyone's future reference.

Allow us this access so that we may use our intelligence to make informed judgements as to whether we should do business with someone.

iTrader will be another chapter to write.

Best,
Brian kc


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Last edited by Kickin' Chicken; 06-15-2011 at 09:57 PM.
  
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  (#19)
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membership - 06-16-2011, 05:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickin' Chicken View Post
Mike and all;

Unless there is some monumental reason (eg legal, death threats, etc.) Please Do Not Remove Threads. Even if there seems to be a good reason, when possible, remove the violative/offensive post(s) and lock it down. Threads involving deals that have gone bad do need to be on display and a dedicated sticky is a great place where to put them.It would be entirely too complicated for mods to try and arbitrate deals gone bad. And I, too, agree that forming a committee would be frought with peril and pitfalls (always wanted to sneak this in somewhere).

A while back, we discussed splitting wanted and for sale into two sections as a possible way to relieve some of the high traffic in the forum. I like this idea a lot!

Turning lemons into lemonade:

Requiring a paid club membership for those who wish to be able to post new threads in the For Sale section, to me, is a no brainer. It will not entirely fix the problem of deals going bad but it promises to reduce these unpleasant occurrances, maybe even dramatically.

First, a membership fee will turn away the vast majority of people who come here looking to prey on someone.

Second, the Azers who have to buy a membership in order to sell here would, no doubt, feel like they have more of a stake in how all of the business dealings go and that they wouldn't want people crapping in their store aisles.

A dedicated sticky can include all threads involving bad transactions that, after giving them a fair chance, the parties could not come to a satisfactory resolution. Lock these threads, and display them for everyone's future reference.

Allow us this access so that we may use our intelligence to make informed judgements as to whether we should do business with someone.

iTrader will be another chapter to write.

Best,
Brian kc
Agree Brian..i suggested a Membership Fee for Sellers a while back..why
would anyone not support this??..even at the current rate for Club Memberships would be good..if you sell on here..you should be able to afford $40 bucks a year..seperation of wanted items and sell items is a
great idea..so is the Sticky thing..access to the main purpose of this Forum would not be compromised by doing this..strickly dealing with sellers in this way would abolish alot of bad dealings and make it so much easier to monitor..i suggested a Fee of $100 per year..that seemed to be a little high for some..but those were Folks with little or no iTraders..SA


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  (#20)
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06-16-2011, 05:58 AM

I think $100 a year is steep and I have plenty of itrader.

I agree something needs to be done but I don't know if charging people to sell is the answer. Do you charge a variable fee based on selling frequency? Or do you go to an eBay style fee based on selling price? And who authenticates the true sold for price?

I think not deleting threads is a must. Just lock them so that people can see. If there is something way over the top, maybe delete that post but not the entire thread.

Itrader can still be vital if it is used correctly and not used as a rebuttal tool.

I think this thread is a step in the right direction because we can voice our ideas and start working towards some type of a solution.

Thanks again Mike for a great site. I know there can be thankless days and a lot of stress.
  
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  (#21)
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06-16-2011, 06:25 AM

I have been very disappointed with the number of bad transactions so I will give my take on a few things I would like to consider for the FOR SALE Section which should be separate for Want to Buy section.

Members Only Can List Items For Sale:
  • Only Paid Members of the Forum can post to the FS section.
  • Member need to have 30 days of memberships and a minimum of 30 posts to sell within the forum.
    Junior Members (0-29 posts) should be allowed to reply to posts in the FS Section.

Posting Rules:
  • Include your country of residence in the title, even if you are willing to sell outside that area.
    Within the post, please provide an indication of where you live.
  • Specify the currency you are selling in.
  • Post pictures, where applicable, in the original post.
  • Please list any extras or accessories you will include in the transaction.
  • State the acceptable method(s) of payment.
  • Please state if shipping/insurance is included in the price.
    Also state the method of shipping you are proposing.

Recommendations:
  • I would like to see the asking price to be left alone as it provides some idea of the potential market value of the item being sold at the time it was offered for sale.
    If the price is adjusted during the For Sale activities, the price can be adjusted but not removed.
  • Mark SOLD in the first opening thread when the item is sold.
    Right next to the last asking price.
  • One thread per item is enough.
    Multiple threads could be deleted.
  • No price policing or price comments.
    Such posts could be deleted.
  • No Bumping or limit bumps to every 2-4 days.
    Such posts could be deleted.
  • No Feelers.
    Feelers could be deleted without comment.
    It is either for sale or it is not for sale.
  • No Suitability Comments.
    Such posts could be deleted.

Again, just a couple of thoughts.

Last edited by alpine9430; 06-16-2011 at 06:28 AM.
  
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  (#22)
Maniac
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06-16-2011, 06:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuesblues View Post
With all of the newbies coming on this forum just to sell their stuff, some migrating over from Ebay trying to turn this into an auction site, buyers need to be more careful than ever.
It is still on us, not the AZ administrators.
Lately I've seen sellers taking "highest bid" on $200 items.
What's up with that?
That is one thing the mods really need to put a stop to.
This is not Ebay [/SIZE]
Tap, tap, tap!!!

These are the kind of "sellers" that a required paid membership to sell would eliminate. They "join" this site with the intent of selling a single item and then are never heard from again. Who needs these people???

Maniac


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  (#23)
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06-16-2011, 06:43 AM

rather than requiring a club membership to sell an item, i suggest a minimum number of posts before starting a for sale thread ( i know this didn't work very well on the action board).

how often do we see a person's first post offering an item for sale, no pics and no price?
  
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  (#24)
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06-16-2011, 07:08 AM

Quote:
For Sale section you must be a paid member to post a new thread.
I think this is a great idea. Someone mentioned that people were coming over from EBay to sell. I haven't noticed it yet but if its true, then a sellers fee might help alleviate any problems.

Myself, I might only sell a cue on rare occasion. I don't want to buy a membership just to sell one item. I know it sounds cheap and I should buy a membership for the amount of time I spend on AZ to support my favorite site.


If possible to implement, a sellers fee or percentage per item might be easier and put money into the site. I believe something like this could be worked out. There is a difference between a person using the Sale section on occasion (once or twice a year) as opposed to others conducting regular business here.

A sub section in the Sale forum to air grievances so threads are not posted in the main forum.

I don't believe in deleting threads. Its ok to make comments but often there are people who don't have a dog in the hunt who get carried away
with posts. Delete these posts instead of the entire thread. I know that the mods don't need nor want any more work moderating these threads.
In this case, there are a few respected members here that could moderate this sub section of the forum. Let them decide what is proper and moderate at their discretion.


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Last edited by Blue Hog ridr; 06-16-2011 at 07:14 AM.
  
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New members
Old
  (#25)
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New members - 06-16-2011, 07:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maniac View Post
Tap, tap, tap!!!

These are the kind of "sellers" that a required paid membership to sell would eliminate. They "join" this site with the intent of selling a single item and then are never heard from again. Who needs these people???

Maniac
This is also where some of the best deals are to be bought. They are Cues or such that have not been posted for sale before. I like being having new users come here to sell their stuff.

My ideas

Only 1 active for sale thread per user.

Leave the deals gone bad threads locked.

Lock all old (you determine how old) For Sale threads so they do not get bumped back up.

If the same users keep bumping their thread multiple times without a good reason like a price change or new info being added just lock them or just delete the thread.

No bumping threads for other people.

We all can see who the abusers are, just ban them from the for sale section after one warning.

separate For Sale and Wanted forums.

Just deal much more harshly with the trouble makers!
  
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  (#26)
classiccues
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06-16-2011, 08:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine9430 View Post
I have been very disappointed with the number of bad transactions so I will give my take on a few things I would like to consider for the FOR SALE Section which should be separate for Want to Buy section.

Members Only Can List Items For Sale:
  • Only Paid Members of the Forum can post to the FS section.
  • Member need to have 30 days of memberships and a minimum of 30 posts to sell within the forum.
    Junior Members (0-29 posts) should be allowed to reply to posts in the FS Section.

Posting Rules:
  • Include your country of residence in the title, even if you are willing to sell outside that area.
    Within the post, please provide an indication of where you live.
  • Specify the currency you are selling in.
  • Post pictures, where applicable, in the original post.
  • Please list any extras or accessories you will include in the transaction.
  • State the acceptable method(s) of payment.
  • Please state if shipping/insurance is included in the price.
    Also state the method of shipping you are proposing.

Recommendations:
  • I would like to see the asking price to be left alone as it provides some idea of the potential market value of the item being sold at the time it was offered for sale.
    If the price is adjusted during the For Sale activities, the price can be adjusted but not removed.
  • Mark SOLD in the first opening thread when the item is sold.
    Right next to the last asking price.
  • One thread per item is enough.
    Multiple threads could be deleted.
  • No price policing or price comments.
    Such posts could be deleted.
  • No Bumping or limit bumps to every 2-4 days.
    Such posts could be deleted.
  • No Feelers.
    Feelers could be deleted without comment.
    It is either for sale or it is not for sale.
  • No Suitability Comments.
    Such posts could be deleted.

Again, just a couple of thoughts.
Most of these are rock solid.. a few more...

Have an auction style sub category. A cue just sold through this method here and it's really an asset in this economy.

I-trader - expand it in case of a dispute.

Bumping limit.. a necessity. Comment limits, a necessity.

Comments on pricing should get the commenter a ban for 48 hours, then 96 hours then lifetime 3 strike rule

Have an identification section under the cue gallery to rid them from everywhere else on the board.

JV


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  (#27)
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06-16-2011, 08:16 AM

$100 membership is too high, IMO, for most people to sell something unless you are a business, constantly using the forum as the "store". Maybe different levels of "membership", i.e. $25 allows 5 sales posts/year, $50 allows 10, $100 allows unlimited posts of different items for sale for a year, clearly showing that they are running a store. Different levels of membership could be shown in the avitar. It seems to me that most people on the W/FS forum are occasional sellers, not doing a "business", and that clarification should be made clear to everybody. Raffles are risky business...
  
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  (#28)
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06-16-2011, 08:18 AM

I would like to see the title of any For Sale thread include the product w/brand, and the price.

With the sheer volume of postings in the Wanted/For Sale section, it can take an enormous amount of time to try and find something you might want, only to find that the seller is pricing it far above what you are willing to pay.

Details in the title would add convenience for those who might be interested in browsing the For Sale section.


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  (#29)
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06-16-2011, 08:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by classiccues View Post
Most of these are rock solid.. a few more...

Have an auction style sub category. A cue just sold through this method here and it's really an asset in this economy.

I-trader - expand it in case of a dispute.

Bumping limit.. a necessity. Comment limits, a necessity.

Comments on pricing should get the commenter a ban for 48 hours, then 96 hours then lifetime 3 strike rule

Have an identification section under the cue gallery to rid them from everywhere else on the board.

JV
Great additions!

One other thing I would recommend:
All details on what is for sale has to be placed into the FS thread.
Do not enjoy being taken to another site even if it is a dealers site.
  
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  (#30)
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06-16-2011, 09:10 AM

Mike,

How's this for an idea. GET RID of the 'wanted/for sale forum.

Let these sellers and buyers go to Yahoo and make up thier own forum.

Headaches resolved.

If these adults cannot complete successful transactions let them have their own forum somewhere else.


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