TOI what is it, and what can it teach us about accuracy?

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
You apparently have made no serious study of the collision of pool balls.
For enlightenment, invest 10 hours in the following experiment...(ignoring Mosconi, Greenleaf, me,...especially me, or any of the big shots)....see and learn.
Use the 13 ball as a cue ball for 10 hours and hit every shot you can think of using every kind of spin you can think of, using the other stripe balls ONLY for object balls. With varying velocities.
Observe carefully what the 13 ball does after collision.Observe carefully what the striped object balls do after collision Make notes of what you see. Better still, video all of it and you can watch it over and over. This study will give you an idea of energy transfer, depending on the purity of your stroke.
I know what you're thinking...forget that "measel cue ball". It doesn't give up the information that a good old striped ball will produce.
To make you content, rest assured that this is NOT something a no-shooting bum like me thought up. It came from Wimpy Lassiter, 1954 vintage.
Or you can shoot a straight-in shot with a touch of inside and somehow make the ball consistently.
Then you can forget about throw b/c it will just make you miss.
 

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In my understanding there are two versions of TOI, then one I mentioned and something similar to what you are talking about. There are also other systems that use spin the same way. The problem with "your way" is that the ball will have a lot of inside on it on several shots. You don't really get the accuracy benefit either. Sure, I can make most of my shots aiming center to center or center to 1/2 and use inside to deflect the ball out, but IMO it's not easier, in fact it's way harder.

With the amounts of side needed you get a lot of swerve to contend with, AND the cueball can actually run away instead of slowing down, depending on wether inside is "running" english for that angle or not. So basically it becomes either like those people who use low outside on every shot, and pretty much use only one speed...Or it becomes a nightmare to figure out the exact tip position/speed combo, not to mention rail speed effects...I like inside more than maybe most people, but I'm not shooting all my shots with huge amounts of inside on them!

On a table length shot you need extremely good spin and speed control to not only make the shot, but have the proper control of the cueball with a system like that.

On the other hand, when using only a hair of inside, the swerve doesn't really come into the picture much, and the inside on the ball will be cancelled out after the cueball strikes the object ball on cuts(as you know, the collision puts outside on the ball). Yes, the inside does deflect the ball out, but it doesn't really stay on the ball, so the rail angles stay at least close to the center ball standard. And there is the benefit to using the whole pocket.

The way you talk about is a good learning tool for deflection and swerve, but in my opinion it's not as useful for playing a well rounded game. I tried doing something similar in order to beat the 10 ball ghost using only TOI some years ago (on camera, to show the method). I failed because of the previously mentioned problems. I kept losing my cueball and thought my fundamentals were no good. In reality, the method was no good, they way I was using it. For instance, I'd have a shot where I needed to go forward off one rail, but inside would be running english. To make the ball I would need maybe 1/2-1/4 tip inside. So my options would be to either run around (because I couldn't hold position), or check using center/draw and let the spin carry me forward. Those are both worse options than just using follow with just a hair of inside..That is why I failed back then. So I figured out later, how to use TOI to play a normal, well rounded game with a "hidden" edge, and the 10 ball ghost is no longer necessarily safe, TOI or no TOI.

Yeah, I wouldn’t recommend it for normal play the way I described. I just found it a useful tool to help visualize how much deflection you get with various amounts of sidespin.
 

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"...b/c of the cueball's squirt causes you to hit the ob a little thinner than you visualize."
Joey


Many cut shots results in a few degrees less than the geometric angle "you visualize"
TOI may cause squirt that can neutralize the "few degrees less" and yield the geometric angle "you visualize".
 
Top