CTE Visual Question

sacman · Jun 19, 2018

Fellow CTE Enthusiasts,

If I could get an answer to this one hurdle in my CTE learning journey I would be thrilled. Last night's match against my buddy proved mostly successful but there was so much uncertainty in my alignments.

Here's my question.

When I am standing behind the cue ball and the shot before me is a left cut and requires a 15 degree perception (it's not quite a straight-in but closer to 20 degrees) I will first line up ETA with my vision center. With my body remaining still I will move my eyes to the CTE line (it never lines up) and begin to shift my body in a direction that will move the center-cue-ball-edge-line closer to the object-ball-edge. I consider my vision center to be a sort-of vortex that moves until there is equal spacing between the exact object ball points ('A' and edge) and the two lines from the cue ball (edge and center). Surprisingly, I make many more balls than I miss now but want to be sure that this CTE fundamental is understood correctly. Am I on the right track?

I keep reading that "there is only one correct visual per shot". I'm sure there is but would like to know how that "correct visual" appears on the object ball given the visual lines from the cue ball.

Can't wait for Stan's book and Truth Series.

Patrick Johnson · Jun 19, 2018

Don't know if this is on point for your question...

I wondered what CTE's "perception" would look like for exact fractional cuts (3/4 ball, 1/2 ball, 1/4 ball, 1/8 ball), so I made this pic to illustrate that from the perspective of the shooter after pivoting to center cue ball (CCB) for the shot.

The yellow lines are CTE's "perception lines": one from CB edge to OB aimpoints A/B/C - the other from CB center to OB edge.

The white line is the CB's path (which the shooter is looking straight along).

I'm not a CTE user. Maybe somebody who knows better can explain how these differ from real CTE perceptions for these cut angles. I guess one difference might be that these are after-pivot perceptions, maybe not the ones you should see before pivoting...?

pj
chgo

View attachment 42440

One Pocket John · Jun 19, 2018

sacman said:
Fellow CTE Enthusiasts,

If I could get an answer to this one hurdle in my CTE learning journey I would be thrilled. Last night's match against my buddy proved mostly successful but there was so much uncertainty in my alignments.

Here's my question.

When I am standing behind the cue ball and the shot before me is a left cut and requires a 15 degree perception (it's not quite a straight-in but closer to 20 degrees) I will first line up ETA with my vision center. With my body remaining still I will move my eyes to the CTE line (it never lines up) and begin to shift my body in a direction that will move the center-cue-ball-edge-line closer to the object-ball-edge. I consider my vision center to be a sort-of vortex that moves until there is equal spacing between the exact object ball points ('A' and edge) and the two lines from the cue ball (edge and center). Surprisingly, I make many more balls than I miss now but want to be sure that this CTE fundamental is understood correctly. Am I on the right track?

I keep reading that "there is only one correct visual per shot". I'm sure there is but would like to know how that "correct visual" appears on the object ball given the visual lines from the cue ball.

Can't wait for Stan's book and Truth Series.

Just trying to help. OK, so don't take what I'm writing the wrong way.

In blue, this is where you are making a mistake.

You arrange your body (stance) where you are seeing both the Cue Ball Center to Edge of OB and Edge of Cue Ball "A", "B" or "C" at the same time (whatever visual you choose to use).

Once you get this visual you freeze, bend straight down into the shot. You will notice that the cue is not pointed at the center of the cue ball, pivot to center cue ball and shoot. Don't try to steer the shot. Just hit the cue ball and see what happens. Just roll it.

This is assuming, of course, that you have excellent fundamentals allowing you to get into a proper stance with the shot line.

Have fun and keep working on it.

John

sacman · Jun 19, 2018

One Pocket John said:
Just trying to help. OK, so don't take what I'm writing the wrong way.
In blue, this is where you are making a mistake.

You arrange your body (stance) where you are seeing both the Cue Ball Center to Edge of OB and Edge of Cue Ball "A", "B" or "C" at the same time (whatever visual you choose to use).

Once you get this visual you freeze, bend straight down into the shot. You will notice that the cue is not pointed at the center of the cue ball, pivot to center cue ball and shoot. Don't try to steer the shot. Just hit the cue ball and see what happens. Just roll it.

This is assuming, of course, that you have excellent fundamentals allowing you to get into a proper stance with the shot line.

Have fun and keep working on it.

John

I appreciate all the advice I can get with CTE. It is fascinating and as I mentioned ... even though I don't fully understand it - I've been making more balls than ever. I will continue to try to see both lines at the same time. I recall Stan talking about "stereo vision". I have poor vision (severe astigmatism) and glasses but will keep at it.

One question for you John: Before you bend down on the shot your body is most likely at an offset to the old traditional center cue ball shot line? But when you bend down you are looking at the cue ball as a "fixed cue ball" and pivoting or sweeping into center. Is that correct?

Thanks again for replying. I really appreciate it.

One Pocket John · Jun 19, 2018

sacman said:
I appreciate all the advice I can get with CTE. It is fascinating and as I mentioned ... even though I don't fully understand it - I've been making more balls than ever. I will continue to try to see both lines at the same time. I recall Stan talking about "stereo vision". I have poor vision (severe astigmatism) and glasses but will keep at it.

One question for you John: Before you bend down on the shot your body is most likely at an offset to the old traditional center cue ball shot line? But when you bend down you are looking at the cue ball as a "fixed cue ball" and pivoting or sweeping into center. Is that correct?

Thanks again for replying. I really appreciate it.

I'm going to post two videos. Watch the first one then the second one then return to the first video and watch again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGBFRln32uo&t=2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPn3Wzp4NT8
.
When you arrange your body to see both visuals, do it this way, then pivot the cue to center cue ball.

You are working on a method that will take many hours of practice. Give it at least a couple of months of practice everyday.

You should be good to go after this.

John

sacman · Jun 19, 2018

Thank you John!

One Pocket John · Jun 19, 2018

sacman said:
Thank you John!

NP

John

Vorpal Cue · Jun 20, 2018

Patrick Johnson said:
Don't know if this is on point for your question...

I wondered what CTE's "perception" would look like for exact fractional cuts (3/4 ball, 1/2 ball, 1/4 ball, 1/8 ball), so I made this pic to illustrate that from the perspective of the shooter after pivoting to center cue ball (CCB) for the shot.

The yellow lines are CTE's "perception lines": one from CB edge to OB aimpoints A/B/C - the other from CB center to OB edge.

The white line is the CB's path (which the shooter is looking straight along).

I'm not a CTE user. Maybe somebody who knows better can explain how these differ from real CTE perceptions for these cut angles. I guess one difference might be that these are after-pivot perceptions, maybe not the ones you should see before pivoting...?

pj
chgo

View attachment 42440

The A 'perception' looks right. The B can be taken on both sides of the OB, depends on the cut direction. Your C and 1/8 aren't correct though. The C should look like a mirror image of the A. The 1/8 is way off. Stan has called it a one line perception on some of his vids. He suggests imagining a 'ghost' ball with the 1/8 overlap and aligning to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiulmSbLDZM

I can see why your having some problems learning the system. Once you get a handle on the perceptions and try them out on the table you'll be well on your way.

Patrick Johnson · Jun 20, 2018

Vorpal Cue said:
The C should look like a mirror image of the A.

If it was a mirror image of the A alignment, it would be a 3/4 ball cut in the opposite direction...?

pj
chgo

Vorpal Cue · Jun 20, 2018

Patrick Johnson said:
If it was a mirror image of the A alignment, it would be a 3/4 ball cut in the opposite direction...?

pj
chgo

Correct. The 1/4 and C perception are different beasts. The 45 and 60 perceptions are the 'one liners' referenced in the video. They correspond to the ' 1/4 and 1/8 cuts' by ball fractions.

sacman · Jun 20, 2018

Patrick Johnson said:
If it was a mirror image of the A alignment, it would be a 3/4 ball cut in the opposite direction...?

pj
chgo

Please don't muddy this thread with fractional hit comparisons - as CTE addresses throw and is a two-line (simultaneous of which One Pocket John so kindly reminded me). If the cut angle changes by 1 degree it would change the visual. I'm trying my best to figure this out and after watching the first few chapters again of DVD2 I'm hearing Stan say "What makes this different is you are using two lines of vision" - lines are "COUPLED". I swear - every time I watch that DVD I pick up something I've missed. This aiming method is truly "out there" - as I am discovering when trying to see both lines at the same time. I've been successul at seeing both lines last night a few times at my practice set and will continue daily. Do you own his DVDs?

Here's a different perspective CTE: Why would I - someone who is new at CTE and stumbling through the visuals and sweeps be drilling the infamous back cut - estimated at 80 degrees to the corner pocket - a shot I make 1 out of 10 on a 9 ft table with the object ball 5-1/2 diamonds away - using fractional aiming. That percentage goes up to 40% using beginner level CTE? The OB and CB are replaced in their approximate spots - no hole reinforcements, no table coodinates and so the shot requires a slightly different visual each time.

Truly a wonder. Yes - it may be construed as hyberole, CTE is the 8th wonder of the world as far as I'm concerned.

Now that I fully understand the required "stereo visual" my next question is as follows: Where is your vision center placed first in relation to the cue ball at ball address? I am thinking that "the eyes leading" will guide a person to that area - not the other way around (not body in place first, then visual obtained). Again - back to the DVD and more study. A fascinating system!

Patrick Johnson · Jun 20, 2018

Vorpal Cue said:
The C should look like a mirror image of the A.

Patrick Johnson said:
If it was a mirror image of the A alignment, it would be a 3/4 ball cut in the opposite direction...?

Vorpal Cue said:
Correct. The 1/4 and C perception are different beasts. The 45 and 60 perceptions are the 'one liners' referenced in the video. They correspond to the ' 1/4 and 1/8 cuts' by ball fractions.

So if I remove the "C" and the CB-center-to-OB-edge line from the 1/4 fraction it would be correct?

And if I remove the CB-center-to-OB-edge line from the 1/8 fraction it would be correct?

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson · Jun 20, 2018

sacman said:
Please don't muddy this thread with fractional hit comparisons

If fractional alignments aren't relevant to CTE aiming, why are they named as part of the "perceptions" needed to make shots? I think comparisons with fractional alignments are necessary to understand the differences.

I posted them to help you - maybe others will find them useful.

pj <- you're welcome
chgo

Vorpal Cue · Jun 20, 2018

Patrick Johnson said:
So if I remove the "C" and the CB-center-to-OB-edge line from the 1/4 fraction it would be correct?

And if I remove the CB-center-to-OB-edge line from the 1/8 fraction it would be correct?

pj
chgo

In respect to sacmans request I'll stop discussing fractional and one line perceptions in this thread. If you want to discuss visuals you'll need to start a separate thread. It shouldn't be necessary though, just watch the video. It's worth more than 10,000 of my words.

sacman · Jun 20, 2018

Vorpal Cue said:
In respect to sacmans request I'll stop discussing fractional and one line perceptions in this thread. If you want to discuss visuals you'll need to start a separate thread. It shouldn't be necessary though, just watch the video. It's worth more than 10,000 of my words.

Thanks. I realize I was a bit snippy in my remark to PJ.

Vorpal Cue · Jun 20, 2018

sacman said:
Thanks. I realize I was a bit snippy in my remark to PJ.

It's your thread and you have the right to keep it on subject. Too many threads get hijacked and turned into arguments in this forum. The OP's requests should be the 'law' with the mods taking the part of 'judge and jury'.

sacman · Jun 20, 2018

sacman said:
Thanks. I realize I was a bit snippy in my remark to PJ.

One reason I was a bit harsh was I spent an extra hour of my life last night sifting through some detailed, helpful CTE threads from 2017 that should have taken 15 minutes if not for the barrage of attack and counter attacks.

Vorpal Cue · Jun 20, 2018

sacman said:
One reason I was a bit harsh was I spent an extra hour of my life last night sifting through some detailed, helpful CTE threads from 2017 that should have taken 15 minutes if not for the barrage of attack and counter attacks.

And can we all say "AMEN"? :grin-devilish:

Patrick Johnson · Jun 20, 2018

Vorpal Cue said:
It's your thread and you have the right to keep it on subject.

The subject is how to recognize CTE's "visuals".

In CTE "visuals":
- Aimpoints A/B/C and 1/8 = common fractional OB divisions
- Aligning CB edges with A/B/C and 1/8 = fractional alignments
- 15/30/45-degree "perceptions" = common names for fractional cut angles

The system's "visuals" are steeped in fractional components and terminology - in fact, the system grew out of fractional aiming according to none other than Stan Shuffet. So the idea that looking at fractional alignments is "muddying" the topic strikes me as, well, misguided.

Comparing the two to highlight the differences might be a way to shorten the learning curve for the many people like the OP who have difficulty understanding CTE's "visuals".

But if sacman doesn't want it in "his" thread... oh well.

pj
chgo

Valiant Thor · Jun 22, 2018

Cte

Pj why do you continue to do this? Can you not just leave us cte users alone? If you don't like it or understand it just just shut up.

CTE Visual Question

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