Bad time to be a pool pro?

economic impact

hotelyorba said:

Was just wondering, do you guys expect all our beloved pool pros to be able to survive a long period with little or no tournaments to earn some dough?
Smarter players will have made sure to create a nice buffer for difficult times, but they might not all have been that smart. Or maybe they never got a chance to get a buffer growing like that.

And what about the organizers of the various events?

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This turn of events will make a huge financial impact on many people across all walks of life.

I left me corporate job 6 weeks ago to run my pool bootcamps full time. I depend on people flying cross country to train pool. I've spent a lot of hard work growing this business and booking up my calendar. Now people are holding off on scheduling, and those scheduled might not be able to attend depending on travel restrictions.
When the impacts of this virus started to hit I was kicking myself on my poor timing. I would've stayed at my corporate job a bit longer if I could've in my wildest dreams anticipated this. So my first reaction was frustration.

But then I started to realize the severity of the situation, and the effects it will have on many millions of people. Suddenly my financial set backs didn't seem so important. I'm not pretending it's easy, but I am grateful my children will have meals to eat. Beyond that everything else can be dealt with in time.

As for pro pool players, yes, this will be hard for them, along with the promoters, and everyone who's paycheck to paycheck in industries being impacted which will be more and more as the shock waves spread. But we need to keep our perspective. We'll find a way to eat, we'll find a way to get through as best we can. Unfortunately there will be many who don't make it through and I am much more saddened by their loss and the loss to their families. This is a really terrible situation and for those of us who come out the other side we can be grateful to live in a time and place where we suffered a mere financial setback.

hotelyorba said:

Was just wondering, do you guys expect all our beloved pool pros to be able to survive a long period with little or no tournaments to earn some dough?
Smarter players will have made sure to create a nice buffer for difficult times, but they might not all have been that smart. Or maybe they never got a chance to get a buffer growing like that.

And what about the organizers of the various events?

Click to expand...

I may take some heat but, IMO, it's right next to "not very intelligent" to actually try to make a living at pool or in the pool industry in this day and age, regardless of a virus.

Jeff

Id bet most USA players don't have a penny in the bank so they better have a girlfriend. SVB and a couple others excepted.

nostroke said:

id bet most usa players don't have a penny in the bank so they better have a girlfriend. Svb and a couple others excepted.

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truth not fiction.

Tin Man said:

This turn of events will make a huge financial impact on many people across all walks of life.

I left me corporate job 6 weeks ago to run my pool bootcamps full time. I depend on people flying cross country to train pool. I've spent a lot of hard work growing this business and booking up my calendar. Now people are holding off on scheduling, and those scheduled might not be able to attend depending on travel restrictions.
When the impacts of this virus started to hit I was kicking myself on my poor timing. I would've stayed at my corporate job a bit longer if I could've in my wildest dreams anticipated this. So my first reaction was frustration.

But then I started to realize the severity of the situation, and the effects it will have on many millions of people. Suddenly my financial set backs didn't seem so important. I'm not pretending it's easy, but I am grateful my children will have meals to eat. Beyond that everything else can be dealt with in time.

As for pro pool players, yes, this will be hard for them, along with the promoters, and everyone who's paycheck to paycheck in industries being impacted which will be more and more as the shock waves spread. But we need to keep our perspective. We'll find a way to eat, we'll find a way to get through as best we can. Unfortunately there will be many who don't make it through and I am much more saddened by their loss and the loss to their families. This is a really terrible situation and for those of us who come out the other side we can be grateful to live in a time and place where we suffered a mere financial setback.

Click to expand...

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume that you didn't leave your job with no savings, no retirement etc...etc and think, "hey, I I'm gonna quit my job and rely on people coming to take lessons for my livelihood and retirement".

Also, I would hope that your house is paid for.

Not to mention, if married, is there a second income to help supplement?

You don't strike me to be someone that would not plan ahead.

Jeff

planning ahead ...

The average player in the US thinks planning ahead is when it is only Thursday and they are already thinking about what tournament they will try to play in that weekend!

Tinman, I have been there. A solid business move blown out from under me when the x factor nobody could predict came into play. Worst beating I ever took in business was the one that I did all my homework, talked to a friend that was a business consultant, did everything right. Then got splattered off of the x factor wall. You will be fine I am sure. May have to discount to local players to deal with the lack of people willing or able to travel. Reminds me, I need to talk to Joe V, see how things are thataway.

Hang in there, better times ahead!

Hu

planning

jrctherake said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume that you didn't leave your job with no savings, no retirement etc...etc and think, "hey, I I'm gonna quit my job and rely on people coming to take lessons for my livelihood and retirement".

Also, I would hope that your house is paid for.

Not to mention, if married, is there a second income to help supplement?

You don't strike me to be someone that would not plan ahead.

Jeff

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Hey Jeff! Without going into too much detail I can say you're right that I didn't dive into a swimming pool with no water in it hoping it would be full before I hit. On the other hand, starting to train full time was an investment as I knew I wouldn't earn as much for a while as I did at my job. I was prepared for a ramp up and if it turns out there isn't a sustainable demand for pool training I do have back up plans. But I wanted to give it every chance to work and my business plan budgeted for a non-zero amount of income. But again, all of this has become the least of my worries at this point. I'll focus on regional training and will get through. Safety is the main priority.

That said, for those within driving distance of Minneapolis, if you had tournament plans cancelled give some thought to training pool for a few days with me instead. My house is as socially distanced as it can be. Might as well use the down time to take your game to the next level!

I don't think it has been a practical financial decision to try and be a pro for decades but I salute those that took the plunge. The world would be alot less colorful and boring if everybody made sound financial decisions instead of following their hearts.

thank you

ShootingArts said:

The average player in the US thinks planning ahead is when it is only Thursday and they are already thinking about what tournament they will try to play in that weekend!

Tinman, I have been there. A solid business move blown out from under me when the x factor nobody could predict came into play. Worst beating I ever took in business was the one that I did all my homework, talked to a friend that was a business consultant, did everything right. Then got splattered off of the x factor wall. You will be fine I am sure. May have to discount to local players to deal with the lack of people willing or able to travel. Reminds me, I need to talk to Joe V, see how things are thataway.

Hang in there, better times ahead!

Hu

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Thanks Hu! Yeah, it's kind of funny. I was in mortgage lending in 2005 with another company, and went on my own in early 2007. The timing wasn't the best! In 2008 I earned more from pool than I did from lending!

I got a job with a big bank in 2009 and was with them until February this year. The last 5 years I was in business to business sales and got a chance to see the operations of thousands of businesses. I was never interested in running my own again. After what I'd been through I was like "Heck with that, I don't need to deal with the adversity of the economy and take that type of exposure, I'll just do my job for the man and go home and play some pool". I passed on many, many business ideas because I just didn't want to take that type of risk again. Then the pool training thing started catching fire and I was getting more demand than I could keep up with so I started running the math. Again, without getting too deep into details I can say that everything lined up, so I made the move!

So to have travel near shut down a month later is just a horrible feeling, like "Here we go again!" Two shells at starting a business, both on the eves of historic economic crisis.

But you're right, I don't think this is going to play out the same. I am better prepared this time, have local students, and a pretty good sense of humor about this all. And it is pretty funny when you think about it.

Didn't mean to hijack the post. OP is right, this is going to be hard for a lot of people. But when I was in the mortgage business in 08 I saw a lot of people losing their houses and I couldn't help them. It was a hard time and I had to deliver a lot of horrible news. I got through it by reminding myself that while times were tough and those families might have to rent an apartment instead of owning, and their kids might have to move schools, and they might even have to get rid of their family dog, they wouldn't starve to death or die due to lack of medical attention. Even in a crisis living in the US in current times is better than any other time period in history. This perspective allowed me to get through and sleep at night when disaster struck. And once again I find myself thinking about what really matters. All of you and all of your families. Hang in and take care!

Tin Man said:

Hey Jeff! Without going into too much detail I can say you're right that I didn't dive into a swimming pool with no water in it hoping it would be full before I hit. On the other hand, starting to train full time was an investment as I knew I wouldn't earn as much for a while as I did at my job. I was prepared for a ramp up and if it turns out there isn't a sustainable demand for pool training I do have back up plans. But I wanted to give it every chance to work and my business plan budgeted for a non-zero amount of income. But again, all of this has become the least of my worries at this point. I'll focus on regional training and will get through. Safety is the main priority.

That said, for those within driving distance of Minneapolis, if you had tournament plans cancelled give some thought to training pool for a few days with me instead. My house is as socially distanced as it can be. Might as well use the down time to take your game to the next level!

Click to expand...

Yes sir! I figured as much. If more people in the pool industry would follow your lead, there would be less and less pros broke and wondering how their gonna make it if pool don't pan out.

Yep, in the pool world, it don't pay (literally) to be "just a pro". Unlike all other sports where the league minimum is more than pool's elite makes.

I'm sure you will continue to succeed when others don't. It pays to be intelligent and prepared.

Jeff

J SCHWARZ said:

I don't think it has been a practical financial decision to try and be a pro for decades but I salute those that took the plunge. The world would be alot less colorful and boring if everybody made sound financial decisions instead of following their hearts.

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Amen to that! Seriously, has there ever been a good time to be a pro pool player?
Maybe back in Mosconi's day...

jrctherake said:

I may take some heat but, IMO, it's right next to "not very intelligent" to actually try to make a living at pool or in the pool industry in this day and age, regardless of a virus.

Jeff

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I would agree with you in theory Jeff and in practicality as well; but EVERYONE has a right in this world to try to make a living at SOMETHING; so I give them credit for trying - especially at a sport I love so much too! I wish them all the very best and for anyone who suffers in any way through this period. It WILL pass- but some will surely suffer much, much more than others. There is a saying that people have to be crazy to go into the restaurant business too ( the hours, failure rates, headaches with staff, etc.) but thousands of people across the world try it- they are all suffering too in various degrees.
No time for judgement, just helping and hope!!

Theyre slowimg down the spread so the health system, ad pathetic as it is in america, can catch up. They cant keep things like this for a lomg time, the down dropped 3000, people csnt stay home without pay for long. Most live pay to pay.

mikemosconi said:

I would agree with you in theory Jeff and in practicality as well; but EVERYONE has a right in this world to try to make a living at SOMETHING; so I give them credit for trying - especially at a sport I love so much too! I wish them all the very best and for anyone who suffers in any way through this period. It WILL pass- but some will surely suffer much, much more than others. There is a saying that people have to be crazy to go into the restaurant business too ( the hours, failure rates, headaches with staff, etc.) but thousands of people across the world try it- they are all suffering too in various degrees.
No time for judgement, just helping and hope!!

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I agree 100%.

My son went into something similar and only the top 3% actually make a good living.

When people choose such ways to make a living, it sorta comes with the territory.

Jeff

pwd72s said:

Amen to that! Seriously, has there ever been a good time to be a pro pool player?
Maybe back in Mosconi's day...

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Ralph Greenleaf, but he may have been one out of very few that had good success at playing pool for a living. He may have even died broke though.

I think most of the old time road player were gamblers at heart, they lied life on the come. I recall many years ago going into North HollyWeird Billiards on Magnolia after work at night to winde down before heading home to sleep.

When Hollywood Park, or Santa Anita were runnig horse races these guy would show up. Was not unusual for some road plays to leave the pool room with a months pay for me at the time, won in a night playing pool.

In the day time they went to the race track, played the horses, came back the following nite almost broke, or with more money. Looking to play pool for money, and do it again the next day, until the track closed for the season.

This was a life style for guys who did not want to work 9 - 5 assembling war birds, or part for war birds in the defense industry.

Think these road players liked the life style, living on the come, good life when they had big bucks, and knew how to survive when they were busted & broke.

hotelyorba said:

And what about the organizers of the various events?

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Far worse for the organizers depending on the circumstances. They face a lot of risk for cancelled events. When you do an event, usually there are deposits to the venue, hotel contracts, etc. A late cancellation may tie up the funds but you will still owe refunds to your entrants and sponsors. any financial weakness will certainly be exposed under these circumstances.

hotelyorba said:

Was just wondering, do you guys expect all our beloved pool pros to be able to survive a long period with little or no tournaments to earn some dough?
Smarter players will have made sure to create a nice buffer for difficult times, but they might not all have been that smart. Or maybe they never got a chance to get a buffer growing like that.

And what about the organizers of the various events?

Click to expand...

I don’t think there’s ever been a “good” time to pro pool player.

Besides pool picks you, you don’t pick it to become a pro.

Best,
Fatboy<——not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I’m right about this one.