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If I had cues made to my specs, then would it be fair to say that I made them?
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If I had cues made to my specs, then would it be fair to say that I made them? - 04-13-2020, 12:35 PM

If I had a cue maker build me a line of cues, that I designed, and asked the cue maker to put my own unique custom logo on them, then would it be fair to market the cues as custom cues made by myself?

I keep hearing of people doing this, and it just does not seem right.

If you did not build the cue, then do not try to deceive people by saying that you were the cue maker.

For example, I have read that Adam / Helmstetter built a line of cues for this one guy, to his specs, and his designs, and he turned around, and marketed the cues as "custom cues" made by him.

There just seems to be so much deception in this sport, with dishonest marketing, and doing anything possible to get sales.

People need to start being honest about every aspect of the product that they are selling, and if they can't do that, or are unwilling to do that, then they should not be trying to sell that product.
  
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04-13-2020, 12:39 PM

I'm shocked and find it hard to believe anyone would do that here.

But to your question...no, I would not buy a cue that you said you made.

Sent from the future.
  
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Cornerman
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04-13-2020, 12:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedvmaker View Post
If I had a cue maker build me a line of cues, that I designed, and asked the cue maker to put my own unique custom logo on them, then would it be fair to market the cues as custom cues made by myself?
.
I think this is a fair question. I'm going to answer from a manufacturing viewpoint, since that's a fair analogy. I and my cohorts have 3rd party builder make things for us all the time. But it's totally fair to say, "I built a tool for that project," even though the physical machining and assembling of that tool was done by a contracted 3rd party. Totally normal conversation in the manufacturing world.

I also added to the other thread that if you buy a Schuler Cue today, it's built by Jacoby. You'd be buying a Schuler Cue, not a Jacoby. You can say it's a Jacoby-built Schuler Cue or whatever, but it's still a Schuler Cue.


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Name: Freddie Agnir
Shooting Cue: 2017 Tascarella (w/blokid extension) or Schuler SC-250
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04-13-2020, 12:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornerman View Post
I think this is a fair question. I'm going to answer from a manufacturing viewpoint, since that's a fair analogy. I and my cohorts have 3rd party builder make things for us all the time. But it's totally fair to say, "I built a tool for that project," even though the physical machining and assembling of that tool was done by a contracted 3rd party. Totally normal conversation in the manufacturing world.

I also added to the other thread that if you buy a Schuler Cue today, it's built by Jacoby. You'd be buying a Schuler Cue, not a Jacoby. You can say it's a Jacoby-built Schuler Cue or whatever, but it's still a Schuler Cue.
Yeah, I understand. Just like Predator has had a line of cues made by Jacoby. They are still Predator cues, even though Predator did not make them.

But what if you switched that around. What if Jacoby had a line of cues made by Predator, and marketed them as cues custom made by Jacoby? That just does not seem right, because people who purchased the Jacoby might think they were getting a US made custom cue, and instead they would be getting a product that was made in China. That is a horrible example though, because the cue could have been made by anyone, but just because Jacoby designed the cue to their specs, they still have the right to say it is a Jacoby custom cue?

Please understand, the above is just a made up example.

Last edited by animatedvmaker; 04-13-2020 at 12:59 PM.
  
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04-13-2020, 12:52 PM

If you say you crapped in the toilet, but you never crapped in the toilet, then the crap in the toilet is not your crap. Its just crap. Hope this helps.
  
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04-13-2020, 01:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Sunchaser View Post
If you say you crapped in the toilet, but you never crapped in the toilet, then the crap in the toilet is not your crap. Its just crap. Hope this helps.
Lol, you are very funny.
  
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04-13-2020, 01:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedvmaker View Post
Yeah, I understand. Just like Predator has had a line of cues made by Jacoby. They are still Predator cues, even though Predator did not make them.

But what if you switched that around. What if Jacoby had a line of cues made by Predator, and marketed them as cues custom made by Jacoby? That just does not seem right, because people who purchased the Jacoby might think they were getting a US made custom cue, and instead they would be getting a product that was made in China.
It happens like that in consumer goods today (that a US company has their stuff built in a Chinese factory). I can't speak to any US cue companies that have done the same without spreading an unfounded rumor.

But, I know that there are a number of cue builders out there that contract out builds to other cue builders. It happens. Nobody is batting an eye to it, and maybe the people who do bat an eye don't realize this type of thing happens from shaft building to finish coating.


--------

Name: Freddie Agnir
Shooting Cue: 2017 Tascarella (w/blokid extension) or Schuler SC-250
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Playing time: just a hair above zero
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04-13-2020, 01:05 PM

That depends.

For complex mechanical items, credit will be given to the people having it manufactured, who designed the appearance, specs and function. In addition, people will notice who built it, to check for the quality.

If your cue is in some way different from what is being built by everyone else, then yes, it's fair to give you the credit. Predator gets credit, even though the actual building gets outsourced to various companies, like Falcon early on and later Chinese factories.

If you get your specs produced by a third party and it's in some way different from what is mostly being built today, then sure, you get credit. But don't come with any converted housecues with 12 inch pro taper and expect to be taken seriously. Show us a new taper, a new ferrule technology, joint, butt construction etc, then we'll talk. Even if it's a well known company making the cues for you, so long as your specs are different, you still get credit. The dishonesty comes in if you later want to take credit for the actual production itself, if you try to start something yourself based on you being a cue "manufacturer", or just brag about actually manufacturing the cues.

Last edited by Straightpool_99; 04-13-2020 at 01:11 PM.
  
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04-13-2020, 01:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 View Post
Show us a new taper, a new ferrule technology, joint, butt construction etc, then we'll talk. Even if it's a well known company making the cues for you, so long as your specs are different, you still get credit. The dishonesty comes in if you later want to take credit for the actual production itself, if you try to start something yourself, or brag about actually manufacturing the cues.
Totally fair. To that point, I have no idea whether or not Jack had input on internal construction. All I know is that my Jackpot doesn't hit like a Schmelke.


--------

Name: Freddie Agnir
Shooting Cue: 2017 Tascarella (w/blokid extension) or Schuler SC-250
Breaking Cue: BK Rush

Playing time: just a hair above zero
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- Annie Potts (Memaw from Young Sheldon)
  
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04-13-2020, 01:31 PM

Actually, you can say or claim you designed the cue that was built to meet your design.
But make no bones about it, you didn’t do squat to say or claim you made the cues.
You did nothing, zero, to build the cues other than hire some else to build them for you.


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04-13-2020, 01:32 PM

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Originally Posted by Sunchaser View Post
If you say you crapped in the toilet, but you never crapped in the toilet, then the crap in the toilet is not your crap. Its just crap. Hope this helps.

But what about the sheitte that hit the fan?


A bull without horns is still dangerous.

Law of logical arguement-Anything is possible when you dont know what you are talking about.

  
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04-13-2020, 01:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 View Post
That depends.

For complex mechanical items, credit will be given to the people having it manufactured, who designed the appearance, specs and function. In addition, people will notice who built it, to check for the quality.

If your cue is in some way different from what is being built by everyone else, then yes, it's fair to give you the credit. Predator gets credit, even though the actual building gets outsourced to various companies, like Falcon early on and later Chinese factories.

If you get your specs produced by a third party and it's in some way different from what is mostly being built today, then sure, you get credit. But don't come with any converted housecues with 12 inch pro taper and expect to be taken seriously. Show us a new taper, a new ferrule technology, joint, butt construction etc, then we'll talk. Even if it's a well known company making the cues for you, so long as your specs are different, you still get credit. The dishonesty comes in if you later want to take credit for the actual production itself, if you try to start something yourself based on you being a cue "manufacturer", or just brag about actually manufacturing the cues.
Nothing about the cue would be all that unique though.

I would chose the woods, the design, the tip, the ferrule, and the type of taper I would want on the cue. Other then that, there would not be anything unique about the construction of the cue.

The only thing that would be unique about it would be my own custom logo.

I guess at the end of the day, all that matters is that the customer is happy with the product they purchased though.
  
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04-13-2020, 01:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedvmaker View Post
Nothing about the cue would be all that unique though.

I would chose the woods, the design, the tip, the ferrule, and the type of taper I would want on the cue. Other then that, there would not be anything unique about the construction of the cue.

The only thing that would be unique about it would be my own custom logo.

I guess at the end of the day, all that matters is that the customer is happy with the product they purchased though.
Thatís how Predator started in business....
  
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04-13-2020, 01:39 PM

I think some goofy cuemaker in Brooklyn never made his own forearms.

Balabushka.

But he was a hack so he doesn't count....

Ken


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04-13-2020, 01:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Armstrong View Post
That’s how Predator started in business....
Yeah, great marketing, a really cool logo, and a really good cue maker (which was Falcon of Canada) to build their cues.

And maybe the 1st cue maker to come out with a unique idea for a LD shaft.
  
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