Who except for predator makes pie-laminated, hollowed out shafts?

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skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
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I know OB has some nice shafts but except for them who makes these kind of shafts? Can cuemakers do this without infringeing on predators patent?

From what i've understood the lamination makes it radially consistent and the hollowing/drilled out front makes it less likely to squirt and deflect.

So from what i've figured out the list so far is:

* predator 314
* predator z
* OB-1
* OB-2
* OB-classic

please add, and/or correct me
 
CrownCityCorey

CrownCityCorey

Sock it to 'em!
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Pie-Laminated: Lucasi Hybrid, Katana, Fury, Universal Smart Shaft, Predator, CueTec R360, Jacoby Edge Hybrid, Dominiak, Longoni S2, S3

Non-Pie Laminated: Tiger and OB

Non-Laminated: Mezz, Players HXT, G-Core, iShafts
 
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Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
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skogstokig said:
From what i've understood the lamination makes it radially consistent and the hollowing/drilled out front makes it less likely to squirt and deflect.
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Less squirt, not less likely to squirt. Every shaft is 100% likely to squirt.

Can cuemakers do this without infringeing on predators patent?
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I think Predator has a patent on the hollow front end.

pj
chgo
 
sfleinen

sfleinen

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scottyr44 said:
Dominiak cues from New York, makes a shaft which he says predator stole the idea from him :)
http://www.dominiakcues.com/
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So I guess Dominiak is the "Elisha Gray" of the pool world?

(For those that are not familiar with the name Elisha Gray, he, not Alexander Graham Bell, was the true inventor of telephone technology, even going as far as taking the technology to transmitting sound under water. But it was Alexander Graham Bell who was the one to win the race to the patent office, so therefore he [Bell] is the one known today as the inventor of the telephone.)

But as is always the case, "you sleep, you weep."

-Sean
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
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If you read the Dominiak links about the two shafts he offers, you will see that he explicitly states his are not "hollow" like competitors. So I think Predator "stealing" his idea is a wise tale...
 
A

AtLarge

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n0th1ng said:
What's the purpose of laminating shafts?
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1. With pie or OB-type laminations -- radial consistency: the shaft flexes more consistently regardless of which way it is oriented.

2. With all types of laminations -- higher harvest / less waste: the ability to use a higher percentage of available shaft wood.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
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CrownCityCorey said:
Pie-Laminated: Lucasi Hybrid, Katana, Fury, Universal Smart Shaft, Predator, iShafts

Non-Pie Laminated: Tiger and OB

Non-Laminated: Mezz, Players HXT, G-Core
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I had a few McDermott I-Shafts, and I don't recall them being laminated (however this was 7 or 8 years ago, and my memory is not great on this). I just checked McDermott's I-Shaft site, and no where do they mention it is laminated.

I broke the ferrule on my I-3, and was going to replace it myself (I was a repairman). Upon cutting into it, I saw that its design was clearly not going to be repairable by me, and maintain the original characteristics...
 
sfleinen

sfleinen

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iusedtoberich said:
If you read the Dominiak links about the two shafts he offers, you will see that he explicitly states his are not "hollow" like competitors. So I think Predator "stealing" his idea is a wise tale...
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You mean "wive's tale"? Actually, I heard Dominiak say this before -- that Predator stole his idea. But he later "adjusted" his marketing to take a different tact -- to differentiate his shafts from Predator, rather than say Predator stole his idea (which is litigious, btw, and Dominiak knows this).

-Sean
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ah, thank you for the phrase correction, I always thought it was wise. lol.

Do you recall what design feature Dominiak claimed he was the originator of? Maybe it was the spliced design?
 
sfleinen

sfleinen

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iusedtoberich said:
Ah, thank you for the phrase correction, I always thought it was wise. lol.

Do you recall what design feature Dominiak claimed he was the originator of? Maybe it was the spliced design?
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I believe that's correct -- it was the pie-splicing technique specifically. So, the marketing angle was changed from the litigious "they stole my idea" to "here's why my shafts are different," with a focus on how his shafts are not hollow.

-Sean
 
Q

quadrary

Custom Leather Cue Cases
Silver Member
pie slice laminated

dont forget the jacoby edge hybrid it is wedge laminated just a lot more pieces.
 
S

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CrownCityCorey said:
Pie-Laminated: Lucasi Hybrid, Katana, Fury, Universal Smart Shaft, Predator, iShafts

Non-Pie Laminated: Tiger and OB

Non-Laminated: Mezz, Players HXT, G-Core
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OK thanks... aren't the OB pie laminated? thought they were.

i believe the OB shafts are hollowed out to reduce weight , with some kind of stabilizing rubber inside?

i've seen some other shaft too that was hollow basically from the top milimeters of the ferrule down like 13 inches (according to its owner). any idea what that could have been? it was not pred or OB.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

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What is your reason for asking this question skogstokig?

What I mean is, there are various low deflection shafts on the market, and they all use different methods to get there. If you are looking for lowest deflection, I believe the consensus is the Z-2 is the lowest. If you are looking for a specific feel, each shaft has players who both think their feel sucks and is the greatest.

The laminations I never bought into as far as radial consistency. I know it makes sense that they are more radially consistent. However, IMO, if you took a flat laminated shaft, and played with it in any orientation, I do not believe anyone would notice the differnece.
 
sfleinen

sfleinen

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iusedtoberich said:
What is your reason for asking this question skogstokig?

What I mean is, there are various low deflection shafts on the market, and they all use different methods to get there. If you are looking for lowest deflection, I believe the consensus is the Z-2 is the lowest. If you are looking for a specific feel, each shaft has players who both think their feel sucks and is the greatest.

The laminations I never bought into as far as radial consistency. I know it makes sense that they are more radially consistent. However, IMO, if you took a flat laminated shaft, and played with it in any orientation, I do not believe anyone would notice the differnece.
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I agree. In fact, unlike the Red Dot one-piece maple shafts, the orientation of the Black Dot on Meucci's flat-laminated shafts do not make a difference.

I think it has to do with the selection of the wood, and the latticework of glue throughout the shaft that acts as a "strengthening infrastructure" to remove some of the variability of wood itself. The higher the density of glue latticework (i.e. the more laminations the shaft has), the higher the stability and removal of variability from the wood material. This is the same idea as reinforced concrete -- the more steel rebar latticework you have in it, the stronger the resulting concrete is. (With footnote-notable exceptions, It doesn't matter if the steel rebar all goes in one direction, or if there's a crosshatch pattern.) Except in a laminated shaft, the glue is flexible, unlike the steel rebar. What the glue offers, is predictability -- the glue has predictable/measurable properties, unlike wood, where you have to test and select the pieces that have the properties/consistency you want.

-Sean
 
S

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
What is your reason for asking this question skogstokig?

What I mean is, there are various low deflection shafts on the market, and they all use different methods to get there. If you are looking for lowest deflection, I believe the consensus is the Z-2 is the lowest. If you are looking for a specific feel, each shaft has players who both think their feel sucks and is the greatest.

The laminations I never bought into as far as radial consistency. I know it makes sense that they are more radially consistent. However, IMO, if you took a flat laminated shaft, and played with it in any orientation, I do not believe anyone would notice the differnece.
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Guess i'm curious. and i want to find out what shaft i saw that was drilled out that much. it was the lightest shaft i ever seen, lighter than both my 314 and z2 are.

I prefer 314 to z2 because of the tip width. I have the pre-cat 314 on my playing cue and i don't see that i will ever change, i'm really settled with it. but still curious about different LD shafts.
 
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