Cue Hit Analysis

I understand i avoided your question. With my equipment and a fingertips type grip i do feel the
vibrations! I could be wrong. Would love to have my cue tested and hit with to better understand and convey this sensation. I alter or tighten my grip to slow it down or loosen my grip to speed it up!

Kd
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Kid Dynomite said:

I understand i avoided your question. With my equipment and a fingertips type grip i do feel the
vibrations! I could be wrong. Would love to have my cue tested and hit with to better understand and convey this sensation. I alter or tighten my grip to slow it down or loosen my grip to speed it up!

Kd
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

Click to expand...

Again, you make no sense.

I never asked a question for you to avoid.

Good day

RBC said:

Again, you make no sense.

I never asked a question for you to avoid.

Good day

Click to expand...

I don't understand? Your post said i did not address the feeling the cue and adjusting my grip accordingly!

Then some proverb about me not making sense and avoiding my post all together.

I attemped to explain better that i could be wrong or using equipment that allows MORE to be felt in your hand then normal.

Now, you say you never asked ANYTHING and i am crazy more or less than reading your own comments and how they are interpreted!

Kd

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Many members asked stuff and since i am mobile not home! i replied in one post to several comments!

One comment about steel joints i elaborated on.

One comment about wood selection and species matching on the tuning forks! Mixmatching woods would not work! Like attaching the metal weight alters the G cord and misaligned the vibration frequency.

I have no skin in the game and make no cues! Just commenting on my experience of 35 years! A hall of fame cue maker said it so steel joints must be Best! Even though southwest has a 10 year wait list and tons of fans. Southwest does not core and the satins hit the best with maple from tip to butt.

A cored with maple cue and no points cut in the path of the core produces an extra ordinary hit and feel. When wood to wood joints are utilized!

Kd

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KD

Hit of a cue is a very personal thing, what you like in the "hit" of the cue may not be what others like.

About the steel joint comment by the hall of fame cuemaker, please read my post again, you are misquoting it and the intent. The point was, as long as a joint is constructed CORRECTLY it does not matter what it is made of. As far as southwest cues are concerned yes they don't core (personally I wish they would just so the weights of the ebony cues could be controlled). Maple SW cues "hit the best"well that is your opinion, I personally like the hit of the ebony SW cues. I also like the hit of other styles of cues too.

Think about it, if there was one style of cue that "hit" so much better than others, why wouldn't everyone just play with that style of cue? They don't because again the hit of a cue is a very personal, subjective thing.

You say you can feel the vibrations through your cue, well that is nothing special as everyone can (if they have feeling in their hands and figures) what you avoided was your explanation as to how you can modify your stroke while the tip is in contact with the cueball based on your "feel" Remember this all has to take place in a .002 second time period, and the vibrations you feel in your fingers occur after the cueball has left the tip. It is a scientific impossibility, but if you "believe" you can do this, well more power to you.

I have steel jointed, flat faced wood to wood, and ivory jointed cues I can tell you with all honesty that if I was asked to ID the cues or the joint types in a controlled study where I could not ID the cue visually, I would not be able to by feel alone.

That is a dirty little secret I have learned from my 35 years of pool playing experience.


Here is some more information on Tuning Forks for you.....I don't think you will find anything here to support your opinion that the resonance box needs to be made of the same wood types to transfer the sound vibrations. If you find documentation of that I would love to read it.

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/Class/sound/u11l4b.cfm

I have nothing more to add to this discussion.

Tony_in_MD said:

KD

Hit of a cue is a very personal thing, what you like in the "hit" of the cue may not be what others like!

You say you can feel the vibrations through your cue, well that is nothing special as everyone can (if they have feeling in their hands and figures) what you avoided was your explanation as to how you can modify your stroke while the tip is in contact with the cueball based on your "feel" Remember this all has to take place in a .002 second time period, and the vibrations you feel in your fingers occur after the cueball has left the tip. It is a scientific impossibility, but if you "believe" you can do this, well more power to you.

Click to expand...

I believe follow through EXTENDS the contact time. I do not hit the cue ball and Not accelerate through the cue ball! That .002 seconds is INITIAL contact with no FOLLOWING THROUGH!

Many instructors call it STEERING when players wiggle the cue during follow through. Often considered a bad habit!

I have seen many pros use it in more exaggerated and slower speed shots applying more or less spin!

Once again all opinion here! As far as joints go i indicated wood to wood would transfer more vibration then other types in my opinion.

It is assumed that vibration is a Good thing? Some don't like it! I do because i play by feel and not like a robot. I utilize my grip and wrist snap for minor adjustments in speed.

I hope this explains my opinion. I am not here saying vibration is better or worse. Just that i like it in cues! This tool in original post may help in cue selection and More info and data is always good for consumers.

Kd



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Kid Dynomite said:

I believe follow through EXTENDS the contact time. I do not hit the cue ball and Not accelerate through the cue ball! That .002 seconds is INITIAL contact with no FOLLOWING THROUGH!
Sorry, it doesn't work that way.


Many instructors call it STEERING when players wiggle the cue during follow through. Often considered a bad habit!
This does nothing more than change the contact point and the direction the cue is traveling when the tip strikes the ball.


Once again all opinion here! As far as joints go i indicated wood to wood would transfer more vibration then other types in my opinion.
Actually you would like the way we build our cues. Maple core, end to end, and a wood to wood joint.



Kd



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Click to expand...

In my first post, I simply stated that there was not enough time for what you stated to occur. I didn't ask any questions. You did, however, respond with several different links, comments, opinions, etc. that were completely unrelated. And you seemed to direct them towards my statement.

I can talk about the engineering and physics involved with pool cues for hours. I love a good discussion. However, I just don't have any desire to remain in conversation when there is no productive give and take. The most important thing a person can do in any discussion is to listen. Unfortunately, I don't feel as though I'm being listened to, so I choose to bow out.

Thanks for the opportunity for discussion, regardless of how it turned out.

Shoot Well!

Kid Dynomite said:

I believe follow through EXTENDS the contact time. I do not hit the cue ball and Not accelerate through the cue ball! That .002 seconds is INITIAL contact with no FOLLOWING THROUGH!

Many instructors call it STEERING when players wiggle the cue during follow through. Often considered a bad habit!

I have seen many pros use it in more exaggerated and slower speed shots applying more or less spin!

Once again all opinion here! As far as joints go i indicated wood to wood would transfer more vibration then other types in my opinion.

It is assumed that vibration is a Good thing? Some don't like it! I do because i play by feel and not like a robot. I utilize my grip and wrist snap for minor adjustments in speed.

I hope this explains my opinion. I am not here saying vibration is better or worse. Just that i like it in cues! This tool in original post may help in cue selection and More info and data is always good for consumers.

Kd



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Click to expand...

There is high speed video evidence that shows the time the tip is on the ball with a followthrough.

Do you have any video evidence supporting your belief?


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RBC said:

I can talk about the engineering and physics involved with pool cues for hours. I love a good discussion. However, I just don't have any desire to remain in conversation when there is no productive give and take. The most important thing a person can do in any discussion is to listen. Unfortunately, I don't feel as though I'm being listened to, so I choose to bow out.

Click to expand...

Sorry you feel NO ONE is listening. As far as give and take. I posted several educational and scientific links!

Its funny your cues are built the way i like! we must see things similarly in cue construction and performance.

Your comment on cue physics has revolved around this .002 speed of sound argument. You have not supported this statement with any sources? Video exist on doctor dave's site of cue tips compressing! The cue tip alone makes contact period much longer then .002

Sincerely
Kd



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Do you understand that those videos are being played in slow motion?







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Again, you've missed the mark entirely!

Kid Dynomite said:

Sorry you feel NO ONE is listening.
There are many who are listening, just not you.

As far as give and take. I posted several educational and scientific links!
Yes, you've posted many things that are completely irelevent to the very topic which you created.

Its funny your cues are built the way i like! we must see things similarly in cue construction and performance.
It's quite possible that we both like the same type of hit or feel in a cue. It's also almost certain that we differ completely on what makes cues hit that way.

Your comment on cue physics has revolved around this .002 speed of sound argument. You have not supported this statement with any sources? Video exist on doctor dave's site of cue tips compressing! The cue tip alone makes contact period much longer then .002
I urge you to have this conversation with Dr. Dave. As for me, I defer back to my post about reason not being automatic.

Sincerely
Kd



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Click to expand...

Shoot Well!

Here are one of many videos on Dr. Daves site showing the contact time of the tip on the CB.

It is shot at 3000 FPS and the elapsed time that the cue tip is on the ball is .001 (that is one thousand of a second)

There are time markers in the top right hand corner that measure time to a millionth of a second. Review the videos yourself, observe the time of contact and the time that the CB leaves the tip and do the subtraction yourself.

I think you will see that all of these shots were stroked, and tip contact time will be between .001 and .002 seconds.

As a parting suggestion, if you still think you can still break the laws of physics which allows your tip to stay into contact with the CB long enough for you to feel it and react to it I suggest you contact Dr. Dave immediately.

Then get yourself out to see him so he can film your stroke for future publication and analysis.


http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-18.htm

Kid Dynomite said:

Sorry you feel NO ONE is listening. As far as give and take. I posted several educational and scientific links!

Its funny your cues are built the way i like! we must see things similarly in cue construction and performance.

Your comment on cue physics has revolved around this .002 speed of sound argument. You have not supported this statement with any sources? Video exist on doctor dave's site of cue tips compressing! The cue tip alone makes contact period much longer then .002

Sincerely
Kd



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Click to expand...

Thanks i admit my error!

I was trying to view the video on mobile phone. But, cant play Microsoft Media files on here!

Kd




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- Fastest human reaction time is about 1/10th of a second. This is about 100 times longer than the 1/1000th of a second the cue tip is actually on the ball. Another way to put it is that humans are 100 times too slow to change the course of a cue ball after the hit has occurred.

- The finest wooden stringed musical instruments have tops made of softwood like spruce and backs and sides made out of very dense woods like rosewood. They resonate great, as they have for hundreds of years.

- Adding metal to the peg head of a guitar actually makes it vibrate longer rather than killing the vibrations.

- The wood of the resonance box that a tuning fork is attached to has no effect on the pitch of the tuning fork. An "A" tuning fork will always vibrate at 440 cycles per second no matter what it is held against. I hold mine against my workbench top when stringing up a guitar or violin, some hold it against the bridge of the instrument itself. Makes no diff, always "A-440" comes out.

Just a few useful facts from a non-cuemaking C player.

Kid Dynomite said:

These can all be tested and illustrate how cue fibration or lack of vibrations can be achieved. To me
The more vibration a cue sends to my hands the better! I believe i can make very tiny adjustments during those milliseconds of contact with the ball. I need that extended vibrations to adjust my stroke speed accordingly!

Kd
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Click to expand...

I would hazard a guess that the CB has already left the tip by the time you would even feel most of these vibrations. I'm sure software like this would be useful in determining this. I could be wrong, but I doubt there is anything a player can do to control the cueball in this timeframe.

I appreciate your the insight KD, I'm not trying to knock you. I actually agree with most of what you have stated, and i also think it would really be neat to see the different characteristics of basic construction techniques/materials.

galipeau said:

I would hazard a guess that the CB has already left the tip by the time you would even feel most of these vibrations. I'm sure software like this would be useful in determining this. I could be wrong, but I doubt there is anything a player can do to control the cueball in this timeframe.

Thanks for the insight KD, not trying to knock you. I agree with most of what you have stated, and i think it would really be neat to see the different characteristics of basic construction techniques/materials.

Click to expand...

How about muscle memory ?

If the cue does not let you feel the hit , can you still be as good in cue ball control ?

very interesting

so you take all this info and decide which cue is better or has the best harmonics, two different people hit a few balls with it, and they will have different opinions. you can do all the experiments and collect all the information there is, but its still subjective to each indivigual.

I posted that before reading the entire discussion. I'm no expert, but i do believe that there are measurable outcomes with a set of given variables (i.e.- it's not all subjective). I don't care about what the "best" hit is, that is subjective, IMO. I would be very interested in the data given on vibrations from cues made with x, y, and z attributes, and how this relates to deflection, squirt, etc.

Does anyone want to come up with a list of variables?
Main categories:
- Joint type and it's subcategories (pin type, collars, inserts, etc)
- Ferrule and tip
- Basic shaft tapers
- Most common forearms (cored vs uncored)
- A-joint construction
- Full splice

I think someone mentioned earlier, but it seems like the trouble is with understanding that the output means. There are so many input variables, but it's a whole can of worms understanding what it means.

Best of luck to the OP, hopefully the software will find it's way into the right hands.

galipeau said:

I posted that before reading the entire discussion. I'm no expert, but i do believe that there are measurable outcomes with a set of given variables (i.e.- it's not all subjective). I don't care about what the "best" hit is, that is subjective, IMO. I would be very interested in the data given on vibrations from cues made with x, y, and z attributes, and how this relates to deflection, squirt, etc.

Does anyone want to come up with a list of variables?
Main categories:
- Joint type and it's subcategories (pin type, collars, inserts, etc)
- Ferrule and tip
- Basic shaft tapers
- Most common forearms (cored vs uncored)
- A-joint construction
- Full splice

I think someone mentioned earlier, but it seems like the trouble is with understanding that the output means. There are so many input variables, but it's a whole can of worms understanding what it means.

Best of luck to the OP, hopefully the software will find it's way into the right hands.

Click to expand...

He's not interested in how it got there. Just what is there.

OK, maybe he can reword it . Cue Resonance .
Maybe he can use shafts with the same taper, weight, collars, ferrule, tip and same flex point .