Need help on a gold crown

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Did he paint or stain the top rail in black ?
The GC3 in black was polished black.

That looks like a GC2 with chrome metals .
I got mine for $950 but it needed new rubber and cloth.
The slates and frame were perfect though .
 
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Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
Have you taken a table apart before? It's not especially hard, but you'll need help, and some idea of what you're doing. Those rails have been modified, I'd ask about that and check that it was done properly. Contact the owner and get more information about the table would be a good start.

It's possible to re-use the old cloth, but would be far better to put new cloth on (at least the bed).
 
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rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello,
There is a Brunswick Golf Crown being sold not far from me, I do not know much about these tables. How do I know what GC it is? Is there anything to lookout for when checking it out? Is it worth it to move myself or hire a company to move it for me? Do I need new cloth when it gets moved?
Thank you in advanced

Matt

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1UhuZM6-M2CHT3pVrqi0fht9kvkcwDSQz

That's a Gold Crown I but the rails have been modified. They either had the formica replaced, got new rails from Jeremy Chambers or as Joey pointed out, installed a set of rails from a Gold Crown III. If they did the latter, they took the time to retrofit the Gold Crown I counters. How much are they asking?
 
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bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
This table looks to be an early Gold Crown I. I know this, as the head rail had the acrylic nameplate (now missing). In two of the photos, you can see that the formica has a wood grain pattern. They are NOT black, as some posters have suggested.

The pockets have been tightened dramatically. Hard to say, from these photos, which method was used to tighten the pockets, but the work doesn't look bad (at least from these photos).

Things to check:

Look at the underside of the slate. Might be hard to tell the color, but if it is actually slate, it will be a bluish gray. If it is Brunstone, it will be brownish gray, and will usually have a "BS" marking on the underside of each piece. Also check for cracks in the slate/Brunstone.

Brunstone is much more difficult to set up, and has a number of issues. When set up properly, you won't likely notice the difference.

Check the condition of the pockets, and ensure that the mounting screws are properly installed, and there aren't any broken off in the pocket castings.

Check the condition of the wood, and ensure that there are no broken or split pieces. Some repairs are not difficult, but some can be a pain. That said, check out the ball box, and the mounting hardware.

Measure the nose height of the cushions, and ensure that they are 1 7/16". Also, check the color of the rail cloth, along the length of the cushions. If it is slightly brown, along the cushion, you can bet that the table has the original Monarch rubber.

Feel along the top side of the cushions. If there is a distinct ridge along the top side of the rail, where the cushion attaches, you can bet that someone installed K66 cushions. Though, the table should have K55 cushions.

You could also measure the distance from the cushion nose to the formica. It should measure 2". However, If someone replaced the original cushions with K55, and didn't modify the sub-rail, it will measure 2 1/8". Not the end of the world, but might be good to know. If the cushions were replaced with K66, the dimension will measure 2", though you may feel the ridge that I mentioned previously.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
This table looks to be an early Gold Crown I. I know this, as the head rail had the acrylic nameplate (now missing). In two of the photos, you can see that the formica has a wood grain pattern. They are NOT black, as some posters have suggested.

The pockets have been tightened dramatically. Hard to say, from these photos, which method was used to tighten the pockets, but the work doesn't look bad (at least from these photos).

Things to check:

Look at the underside of the slate. Might be hard to tell the color, but if it is actually slate, it will be a bluish gray. If it is Brunstone, it will be brownish gray, and will usually have a "BS" marking on the underside of each piece. Also check for cracks in the slate/Brunstone.

Brunstone is much more difficult to set up, and has a number of issues. When set up properly, you won't likely notice the difference.

Check the condition of the pockets, and ensure that the mounting screws are properly installed, and there aren't any broken off in the pocket castings.

Check the condition of the wood, and ensure that there are no broken or split pieces. Some repairs are not difficult, but some can be a pain. That said, check out the ball box, and the mounting hardware.

Measure the nose height of the cushions, and ensure that they are 1 7/16". Also, check the color of the rail cloth, along the length of the cushions. If it is slightly brown, along the cushion, you can bet that the table has the original Monarch rubber.

Feel along the top side of the cushions. If there is a distinct ridge along the top side of the rail, where the cushion attaches, you can bet that someone installed K66 cushions. Though, the table should have K55 cushions.

You could also measure the distance from the cushion nose to the formica. It should measure 2". However, If someone replaced the original cushions with K55, and didn't modify the sub-rail, it will measure 2 1/8". Not the end of the world, but might be good to know. If the cushions were replaced with K66, the dimension will measure 2", though you may feel the ridge that I mentioned previously.

GCI's came with Monarch Superspeeds, I thought that there was no direct replacement for the Monarchs without modifying the sub-rails. :confused::confused:

If it has Monarch Superspeeds that probably also means that the pockets were shimmed with very thick facings.
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
GCI's came with Monarch Superspeeds, I thought that there was no direct replacement for the Monarchs without modifying the sub-rails. :confused::confused:

If it has Monarch Superspeeds that probably also means that the pockets were shimmed with very thick facings.

There is no direct replacement, if you want the table to be right. However, you can replace the Monarch cushions with a modern-day K55, without a whole lot of ill-effect. The nose height will be a little low, and the banks will be slightly short. Also, the playfield dimensions will be 1/4" short in both directions, changing the table from a 2:1 ratio.

Alternatively, people do install K66 cushions, which keeps the 2:1 ratio. However, the cushions must be installed 1/16" low on the sub-rail, to maintain proper nose height. As you can imagine, this would be a bit tricky, to do it with any sort of accuracy. Not only that, you will feel that distinct ridge along the top of the rail, unless the installer sands it down. Even more unfortunate, doing so will ruin the rail (for the next guy, who wants to do it correctly).
 

Mcreckling

Registered
Perfect response, exactly what I was hoping for and looking for out of a reply. I am going to go look at the table this weekend if the price sounds right, they are asking $1500 for the table. I have already asked about the rails and the seller doesn't know anything about the table. I am excited to look at it
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Even more unfortunate, doing so will ruin the rail (for the next guy, who wants to do it correctly).

Darn, just when it was getting interesting.
You're leaving too much for my imagination to get carried away.

Is the correct way new subrails?
Or is there an approach that removes the hardware and mods the rails from the bottom??? (sounds possible but painful)

smt
 
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fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
Darn, just when it was getting interesting.
You're leaving too much for my imagination to get carried away.

Is the correct way new subrails?
Or is there an approach that removes the hardware and mods the rails from the bottom??? (sounds possible but painful)

smt

Have the sub-rails modified for current cushion profiles. I had mine done along with tightening up the pockets to 4 3/8", plays very, very nice.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks - clarified the picture a little & caused me to google a bit for the rest.
I was misunderstanding some terms.

Q was because my T-rails are probably going to need it, but am most likely to just make new rails. Either way, trying to get a better picture of the concepts involved.

smt
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
Thanks - clarified the picture a little & caused me to google a bit for the rest.
I was misunderstanding some terms.

Q was because my T-rails are probably going to need it, but am most likely to just make new rails. Either way, trying to get a better picture of the concepts involved.

smt

Steve, give me a call before you get going on the new rails. I just made a new set of sub-rails for an antique Brunswick, much like yours. They played great! If you want, I'd be happy to send you the cut ends of the sub-rails, so that you could copy the angles.

Alternatively, I'd love to come check out your shop, and help you along in person.

Take care, my friend.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Geoff-

can't wait to get you down here!
However as far as the table, it continues to be the project that taunts me while i complete others. So not much progress, but as you see in my Q's above, gathering info where ever it can be gleaned.

I do want to talk to/see you before cutting any wood. But feel a little concerned about wasting your time yet since the shop is a mess with current 2 projects and could not act immediately on your input.

Hope life and your other job are treating you right during these "interesting" times. If you ever get bored or have free time, ( i know you have a life's work of projects yourself) don't hesitate to come on down!

smt
 
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