Cue Tips with CJ WILEY - Drawing the Ball
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
Neil, I'm not an instructor but I have been playing since I was 13 yrs. old. 46 yrs. ago my father taught me how to draw the ball. I play in Southern La. & have found that on different days it takes a different stroke. I used to do it with a more wristy pop stroke. I purchased a couple of LD shafts this year & found that I had to employ the follow thru stroke Mr. Wiley is advocating in order to get the same results. Playing with them over time I have adapted a bit of a hybrid. A wristy pop stroke but with a bit more of a foward thru component to it but not a full long follow thru. I can do it both ways but find I have more control with the wrist pop. I tend to over do it with the full follow thru version.
I hope this helps if you were looking for help. I too am interested in hearing Mr. Wiley's take on the differences. I would also like to hear his take on the piston vs the pendulum stroke & whether they should pivot from the elbow or the shoulder, as well as, what grip is better for each stroke in his opinion.
Sincerely,
Rick
PS Sorry if I am off base with this reply. I know you were asking Mr. Wiley, certainly not me.
im not an instructor
but here is my 1 1/2 cents worth
extending the follow thru may be a way to be sure you are accelarting thru contact
people who poke and snap back have to be deaccelerating on contact since they are getting ready to stop and go backwards
jmho
icbw
what do you think??
late edit 9/18/2012
people who poke and snap back MAY HAVE A TENDENCY to be deaccelerating on contact since they are getting ready to stop and go backwards
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fwi i edited my post slightly but the gist is the same
Amplifying English
Extending the follow through amplifies English {high, draw and especially left and right English}....there's one shot that the legendary pool instructor Hal Mix set up for me demonstrated how exaggerated your English was with an extended follow through (I'll show that one on my new video series on AzBilliards if anyone wants me to)....on the other hand you will have some accuracy issues, so, like in my example if you aren't an advanced player you will want to limit these shots to when the cue ball is close to the object ball. Also, the series "Cue Tips" was directed at beginner players that needed to follow through more to fix "jumping up" issues. imho
Extending the follow through amplifies English {high, draw and especially left and right English}....there's one shot that the legendary pool instructor Hal Mix set up for me demonstrated how exaggerated your English was with an extended follow through (I'll show that one on my new video series on AzBilliards if anyone wants me to)....on the other hand you will have some accuracy issues, so, like in my example if you aren't an advanced player you will want to limit these shots to when the cue ball is close to the object ball. Also, the series "Cue Tips" was directed at beginner players that needed to follow through more to fix "jumping up" issues. imho
Thanks for answering. Now, can you explain to me how the follow through can amplify anything when the cb is already gone?
The Hitter and Target Becomes One...Difficult and Easy Compliment One Another
It's the same principle of extending your punch and aiming "through" the boards when you are breaking in martial arts. You are channelling energy/chi/spirit from "Inner Space" and extending them into "Outer Space".
CLICK THIS PICTURE TO UNDERSTAND IN A DIFFERENT WAY
It's the same principle of extending your punch and aiming "through" the boards when you are breaking in martial arts. You are channelling energy/chi/spirit from "Inner Space" and extending them into "Outer Space".
CLICK THIS PICTURE TO UNDERSTAND IN A DIFFERENT WAY
It's the same principle of extending your punch and aiming "through" the boards when you are breaking in martial arts. You are channelling energy/chi/spirit from "Inner Space" and extending them into "Outer Space".
CLICK THIS PICTURE TO UNDERSTAND IN A DIFFERENT WAY
So, do you feel that a pure pendulum stroke cannot accomplish the same thing??
CueTips
Actually Johnson&Johnson thought it was what you cleaned your ears out with :groucho:
Actually Johnson&Johnson thought it was what you cleaned your ears out with :groucho:
pure as the fallen snow
I've never seen a "pure pendulum stroke"....can you give me an example of someone that has one?
I've never seen a "pure pendulum stroke"....can you give me an example of someone that has one?
uh...are you serious? Many people do, including myself. You do realize that it simply means not dropping your elbow, don't you??
Mr. Wiley,
It is so refreshing to 'hear' your pure honesty.
I would love for you to espound on the stroke: piston vs pendulum vs hybrid
The pivot point: shoulder vs elbow vs hybrid
Wrist action: yes, no, hybrid
What grip for each? benefits vs disadvantages of each for each 'stroke'
I know it is alot & fairly complex. Probably too much for just text.
Again, I love your pure honesty & lack of posturing.
Please... please, do not indulge me if it will in any way effect your playing.
Do not paralyze yourself by analysis.
I do understand. One does not have to know. One simply has to get out of the way.
Thanks in advance & Best Wishes,
Rick
PS Again, please do not harm yourself in any way attempting to respond. Your stroke is yours & mine is mine.
I'm not an instructor.
One can pivot at the shoulder & the elbow would move slightly back & forward, as well as, up & down, slightly.
It seems that you have been taught (told) that the elbow IS the pivot point of a pendulum stroke. It does not have to be & I for one do not use a PURE pendulim stroke.
PS I shoot very well with a hybrid pendulum / piston stroke with wrist action. There is more than one way to skin a cat & more than one way to play very good pool. Lee Trevino's golf swing is not Billy Casper's golf swing.
No offense meant. Just offering 'food' for thought.
Different types of strokes and delivering the cue straight through the cue ball
I really haven't tried to mess with anyone's stroke in the way your suggesting. I have a couple of ways to train someone to strengthen what they do naturally - one is with a sword (that I show in my Ultimate Pool Secrets) and the other is with hand weights. The main thing I look for is how the cue is being delivered down the "Line of the Shot"....this is done differently in so many people because everyone's shoulder/arm/wrist works slightly in a different way of syncrinizing (I guess that's a good explination, in other words everyone does if differently or looks different doing it :smile
There again, the cue must go straight down the line at least through the cue ball and then I've seem some "unique" things happen after that....Nick Varner is an example that comes to mind, but he's as consistent as anyone I've ever played....so find a type of stroke that works, feels good and make it become part of your hand.
I really haven't tried to mess with anyone's stroke in the way your suggesting. I have a couple of ways to train someone to strengthen what they do naturally - one is with a sword (that I show in my Ultimate Pool Secrets) and the other is with hand weights. The main thing I look for is how the cue is being delivered down the "Line of the Shot"....this is done differently in so many people because everyone's shoulder/arm/wrist works slightly in a different way of syncrinizing (I guess that's a good explination, in other words everyone does if differently or looks different doing it :smile
There again, the cue must go straight down the line at least through the cue ball and then I've seem some "unique" things happen after that....Nick Varner is an example that comes to mind, but he's as consistent as anyone I've ever played....so find a type of stroke that works, feels good and make it become part of your hand.A little sensitive about the way you shoot?? Why all the "defense" about it?? Did anyone here say it was wrong?? Just so you know, it's not "wrong", it's just not necessary to have a good straight stroke. If you prefer to drop your elbow, and are straight and consistent with it, go for it. No problem.
I simply asked CJ a question about something he said, and wanted to learn a little more about what he knew about it. I guess I have my answer. Now, if CJ cares to discuss why he is wrong about needing an extended follow through for good draw, I will be happy to discuss it with him. If he doesn't want to, so be it.