Joe Villalpando's "Pool IQ Vol. 1: Kicking Systems"
- Thread starter MOJOE
- Start date
I already know I'm probably the ONLY one in the pool world that has anything negative to say about these videos... so keep this in mind when reading my review.
I am going to review the Kicking System DVD.
What I liked...
The production quality is great.
The information was presented clearly.
Both 2-rail kicking systems were fairly good.
His last section on "Extended Diamonds" kicking was good.
What I didn't like...
The kicking system DVD's length was under 45 minutes and each DVD cost about $45 shipped if you purchased them separately. About a $1/minute. A little pricey based on the info presented, but that is just my opinion, and I will explain why right now.
I would say that only about 20 minutes of the actual instruction time on the DVD covered new information. This is because he has each member of the Behnke family reshoot the same shots over and over to illustrate his point that no matter who you are, as long as you hit the correct spot, your cue ball will act the same way as the next guy's. I understood his intentions for doing this, but it SEVERELY limited the actual amount of time presenting NEW information, rather than making that point early on with the first shot, he does the same thing with each subsequent shot. Thus, it only lengthens the DVD, but for no good reason other than to reiterate the original point multiple times.
So regarding information presented. The contents of the video include sections on 1-rail kicks, 2-rail kicks at both the long and short rails, 3-rail kicks, and his last section on Extended Diamond kicking.
Personally, I felt the 1-rail kicking and 3-rail kicking sections were close to useless. The 1-rail kicking section for obvious reasons. The 3-rail section because all the shots were standard 3-rail kicks from one corner to the other, moving the cue ball and object ball less than a diamond's length from either side of the pocket.
Without risking divulging any privileged information... I will only say that it took until his last section "Extended Diamond Kicking" to actually give any value to any of the sections before it. I felt like I was watching the whole DVD wondering to myself... "okay, how is this information useful when the balls aren't in these exact positions?"
So, in summation... The "Good" sections in my opinion were only the 2-rail kicking and extended diamond sections. And not especially worth the $45 cost. ESPECIALLY because there was only 18 minutes of ACTUAL instruction on the entire DVD which includes ALL sections, minus the introduction, outro, and the Behnke family shooting the same shot over and over. Remember, this 18 minutes included all the sections, not just the ones I found useful.
Lastly, Joe made no mention in ANY of the sections on how to adjust if your table doesn't quite play the way his Diamond table plays. This would have been especially useful in the 2-rail and 3-rail kicking sections because he numbers the diamonds, but doesn't tell you how to adjust the numbers if your table doesn't work like his.
P.S. I'm sorry for having to provide this negative review, it makes me feel bad, but I wouldn't be an honest consumer if I didn't state my opinion on this DVD.
[Edit] And by the way... Joe did refund my money for this DVD, just to clear up the confusion.
I am going to review the Kicking System DVD.
What I liked...
The production quality is great.
The information was presented clearly.
Both 2-rail kicking systems were fairly good.
His last section on "Extended Diamonds" kicking was good.
What I didn't like...
The kicking system DVD's length was under 45 minutes and each DVD cost about $45 shipped if you purchased them separately. About a $1/minute. A little pricey based on the info presented, but that is just my opinion, and I will explain why right now.
I would say that only about 20 minutes of the actual instruction time on the DVD covered new information. This is because he has each member of the Behnke family reshoot the same shots over and over to illustrate his point that no matter who you are, as long as you hit the correct spot, your cue ball will act the same way as the next guy's. I understood his intentions for doing this, but it SEVERELY limited the actual amount of time presenting NEW information, rather than making that point early on with the first shot, he does the same thing with each subsequent shot. Thus, it only lengthens the DVD, but for no good reason other than to reiterate the original point multiple times.
So regarding information presented. The contents of the video include sections on 1-rail kicks, 2-rail kicks at both the long and short rails, 3-rail kicks, and his last section on Extended Diamond kicking.
Personally, I felt the 1-rail kicking and 3-rail kicking sections were close to useless. The 1-rail kicking section for obvious reasons. The 3-rail section because all the shots were standard 3-rail kicks from one corner to the other, moving the cue ball and object ball less than a diamond's length from either side of the pocket.
Without risking divulging any privileged information... I will only say that it took until his last section "Extended Diamond Kicking" to actually give any value to any of the sections before it. I felt like I was watching the whole DVD wondering to myself... "okay, how is this information useful when the balls aren't in these exact positions?"
So, in summation... The "Good" sections in my opinion were only the 2-rail kicking and extended diamond sections. And not especially worth the $45 cost. ESPECIALLY because there was only 18 minutes of ACTUAL instruction on the entire DVD which includes ALL sections, minus the introduction, outro, and the Behnke family shooting the same shot over and over. Remember, this 18 minutes included all the sections, not just the ones I found useful.
Lastly, Joe made no mention in ANY of the sections on how to adjust if your table doesn't quite play the way his Diamond table plays. This would have been especially useful in the 2-rail and 3-rail kicking sections because he numbers the diamonds, but doesn't tell you how to adjust the numbers if your table doesn't work like his.
P.S. I'm sorry for having to provide this negative review, it makes me feel bad, but I wouldn't be an honest consumer if I didn't state my opinion on this DVD.
[Edit] And by the way... Joe did refund my money for this DVD, just to clear up the confusion.
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Clark,
You are entitled to your opinion and even though I really like the DVD from Joe, I thought you had some really good points.. We all see things different, at least your review was thorough, although we have very different opinions on this. All reviewers will see things a little different, I found some value in what you had to say..
After watching them again, I can say that they were worth every penny. I think they are the best produced that I have seen. The ones that Nathan put out look excellent but I have not seen them yet, just the samples. Joe is a great guy to talk to, will work you through anything you need help on over the phone and he's a super nice guy.
Well produced Joe, actually the review by Clark was the first that I have heard that was not a stunning review. You are bound to fine some that did not get what you were showing, or just see things differently. Not a bad thing, just another opinion.
Hope to see Joe at the DCC.. Peace, Joey K.
Peace, Joe
You are entitled to your opinion and even though I really like the DVD from Joe, I thought you had some really good points.. We all see things different, at least your review was thorough, although we have very different opinions on this. All reviewers will see things a little different, I found some value in what you had to say..
After watching them again, I can say that they were worth every penny. I think they are the best produced that I have seen. The ones that Nathan put out look excellent but I have not seen them yet, just the samples. Joe is a great guy to talk to, will work you through anything you need help on over the phone and he's a super nice guy.
Well produced Joe, actually the review by Clark was the first that I have heard that was not a stunning review. You are bound to fine some that did not get what you were showing, or just see things differently. Not a bad thing, just another opinion.
Hope to see Joe at the DCC.. Peace, Joey K.
Peace, Joe
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I own #1 & #2 and would buy again.
I've got 1&2 and a taste of 3.
Liked them enough to buy a set for my brother.
Watch out London, 1&2 has hit your shore.
I have both of Joe's dvd's and they are great I can't wait for the third one to come out ! Joe is a great guy and teacher .
By the way clarktheshark you failed to mention that Joe refunded you
in full for your purchase . !
Happy Holidays Everyone !
Larry
By the way clarktheshark you failed to mention that Joe refunded you
in full for your purchase . !
Happy Holidays Everyone !
Larry
I will spring for #3 when available.
I understand when you say, Clarktheshark, that you would be less than honest if you didn't give your true opinion on Joe's kicking videos. I personally have a 180 degree oposite opinion, in that I believe all of Joe's videos are top notch instructional pieces. Professionally made with totally usable information.
The only problem I would have with you is, "IF", what Iowa_Player says is true and you were refunded your money for the tapes,,,,, Why in the world would you not acknowledge that fact? Some of us find this interesting. Please let us know, Thanks...
I didn't think it was necessary. It was only one tape BTW, not tapes. But regardless, his refund didn't change my opinion on the contents, it only enhanced my positive view of his character, which I wasn't reviewing in this review.
Of course, NOTHING, is necessary here, Clark. It is just the class thing to do, to tell the entire truth. Very glad we can agree on that. Also glad to be in the super majority on Joe videos. A very Merry Christmas to you, sir...
They are the best videos on that topic ever. Joe is a good friend of mine, I have other friends who have video's out there as well, but I like Joes videos the best.
To be clear, I raised the fact that Joe is a friend and the other guys to show that I am not biased, if joes video's were in 2nd place I would say so.
They are well worth the $$$, time and time again.
Hope this helps anyone,
Eric
Clark, you're right about this one...your review is the first & only negative review I've ever seen or heard on Joe's teaching tools.
Your claim that Joe refunding your money has no value in your review is improper IMO. That's a critical piece of information, because it illustrates that Joe cares about each & every student (even those that learn directly from the DVDs & not in person).
I can't tell you how many times I've seen Joe take calls from students looking for that next level of information...which Joe gladly offers up without any mention of money. He understands that people have invested in him & he is willing to invest back into his students. He understands that learning is a process & the DVD in question is just one step along that journey. Maybe that's the reason people are flying in from around the country for personalized programs.
To the specifics...your claim that Joe wasted valuable time demonstrating each shot illustrates that you don't appreciate that fundamental piece of information. Joe demonstrated that EVERY level of player can not only benefit from his systems, they can rely on those same systems to deliver CONSISTENT results...even the most recreational player like "momma" Behnke (no disrespect intended). You must remember that Joe's audience is ALL levels...not the (presumably) advanced players like yourself.
You claim the 1 & 3-rail systems are "close to useless". For whom? Are you saying every player from coast-to-coast inherently knows these systems? If so, you are giving everyone a LOT of credit. You've overlooked the fact that Joe demonstrated that once you know the line the CB will take off the final rail (in the 3-rail situation, first rail in the 1-rail), you can hit any ball on that line (which defines a path three balls wide BTW). With that information, you can hit just about any ball in that quarter of the table...and the advanced player can even choose which side of that ball you want to hit! Try to tell me there's no power in that knowledge.
As far as price, I feel Joe's kicking DVD is undervalued. Joe conveyed information he compiled over decades of competition. This you can buy for a measly $45 (FWIW I spent more the other night eating dinner with the wife & daughter). I assert that you can win that money back in your next tourney by escaping a few safeties & placing higher on the bracket.
In the end, maybe you're the type of guy that is satisfied with hearing "Nice try" as your opponent takes BIH. I prefer to be the guy that hears, "Nice hit!" as my opponent sits back deeper in his chair because I kicked in yet another ball.
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Fair enough... I stated my case, and even put in the disclaimer in the beginning. We are all entitled. At least I was fair and detailed in my review... rather than just saying "I didn't like it."
And to respond to the following..
Oh, and I edited my original post, I didn't have anything to hide, I just didn't feel it was necessary.
And to respond to the following..
I said that I DID understand his purpose for this clearly and 100%. What I said was that after the first demonstration of this point with the 3-rail kicking... it was CLEARLY DEMONSTRATED and unuseful to CONTINUE to keep demonstrating the same point with the following kicking systems. In other words... I got it already... I don't need it beat like a dead horse into me. It only added more time and less content to a DVD already (in my opinion) filled with very little content.
Oh, and I edited my original post, I didn't have anything to hide, I just didn't feel it was necessary.
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I'm not reading the rest of the posts before I have my say so I apologize if I am repeating what anyone else says about Joe's videos.
Joe has a very precise system for figuring how to change the tangent line when playing shape. It is in his videos and it will help your game "fo' shizzle". After reviewing Joe's video and a little practicing my precision in controlling the path of the cue ball has improved at least 30% and I controlled the cue ball pretty good before applying his tested methods.
Little Joe V has taught many people how to improve their games and there is much to be learned from this talented teacher.
His pool instruction videos are a must have for any pool enthusiast, imo.
JoeyA
Joe has a very precise system for figuring how to change the tangent line when playing shape. It is in his videos and it will help your game "fo' shizzle". After reviewing Joe's video and a little practicing my precision in controlling the path of the cue ball has improved at least 30% and I controlled the cue ball pretty good before applying his tested methods.
Little Joe V has taught many people how to improve their games and there is much to be learned from this talented teacher.
His pool instruction videos are a must have for any pool enthusiast, imo.
JoeyA
AMEN...........:clapping:
how we learn
To be honest the first time I watched Joe's DVD I had the same thought that Clark did, a lot of unnecessary repetition. Funny thing, the more times I watched the DVD the less the repetition with different people shooting the same shots bothered me, there is a method to Joe's "madness" here. The researchers have found that most of us have to have something presented to us multiple times before we learn it. We could back up the DVD over and over but most don't so the slightly different presentation over and over hammers home what we need to learn.
I do think that Clark missed a bit on the DVD, I do understand how to use the kicking system wherever the balls are at. Adjustments for a particular table and the conditions of the moment are always an issue regardless of how you are making your rough determination of where to shoot a ball. Some like to adjust their aim point slightly, some like to change speed or english a little.
I was talking to Joe on the phone a few weeks ago, on Joe's dime. I am having a bit of a problem and over the course of a thirty minute phone call he went back to my problem and the fix at least three times without making a big deal out of it, that is the method Joe uses to teach both on the DVD's and on the phone. I haven't had a chance to take personal lessons with him but I suspect he will use similar methods in person. There is a lot of difference between understanding something for a minute or two when you see it and actually learning it; having it firmly in your memory banks.
Joe covers a lot of ground and he covers it well. If he tried to cram two or three times the information on a DVD he would be just hitting the high spots and many people would miss what he was trying to teach. Joe knows that he has to tell me something about three times for it to sink in that he is telling me something important. I suspect most people are a lot like me.
Hu
To be honest the first time I watched Joe's DVD I had the same thought that Clark did, a lot of unnecessary repetition. Funny thing, the more times I watched the DVD the less the repetition with different people shooting the same shots bothered me, there is a method to Joe's "madness" here. The researchers have found that most of us have to have something presented to us multiple times before we learn it. We could back up the DVD over and over but most don't so the slightly different presentation over and over hammers home what we need to learn.
I do think that Clark missed a bit on the DVD, I do understand how to use the kicking system wherever the balls are at. Adjustments for a particular table and the conditions of the moment are always an issue regardless of how you are making your rough determination of where to shoot a ball. Some like to adjust their aim point slightly, some like to change speed or english a little.
I was talking to Joe on the phone a few weeks ago, on Joe's dime. I am having a bit of a problem and over the course of a thirty minute phone call he went back to my problem and the fix at least three times without making a big deal out of it, that is the method Joe uses to teach both on the DVD's and on the phone. I haven't had a chance to take personal lessons with him but I suspect he will use similar methods in person. There is a lot of difference between understanding something for a minute or two when you see it and actually learning it; having it firmly in your memory banks.
Joe covers a lot of ground and he covers it well. If he tried to cram two or three times the information on a DVD he would be just hitting the high spots and many people would miss what he was trying to teach. Joe knows that he has to tell me something about three times for it to sink in that he is telling me something important. I suspect most people are a lot like me.
Hu
I'm trying to understand this last quote from you and don't know if it's even possible to do something like that.
Do you know how many different table manufacterers there are not to mention different cue balls, cloth, rubber on rails, etc. etc.
I think this would be virtually impossible to tell everyone how to adjust for every table out there.
What Joe gives is a starting point because even the Diamond tables don't all play EXACTLY alike.
And just for the record that isn't his table, that table is owned by the Behnke family.
Whenever I play in a tournament or in league I will shoot Joe's 2 and 3-Rail kick shots about 3 times just to see how the table is playing. Somtimes they play long and sometimes short and that's how I adjust for a particular table.
That's my 2 cents.
Just watch Jimmy Reid's "Almost All I Know" and you will see exactly what I mean by that quote.
I own both of these and while I found some of the information useful there was a lot of repitition and filler when letting the benkhe boys just shoot the same shot over and over and over.
This time could have been used in much more productive ways. Given the price of these DVDs I was seriously let down.
This time could have been used in much more productive ways. Given the price of these DVDs I was seriously let down.
I think Joe's DVD's are worth every cent I paid for them. I make shots I didn't know how to make before and have kicked in several shots since learning his stuff. His cue ball knowledge and position play suggestions have greatly improved my game. Well worth the money.