BCA Nationals Ref - Borrow a jump cue?

UWPoolGod1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I played poor in several Masters singles matches leading up to the following situation. I am in the losers bracket as I had just played my best match beating Joey Gray. I played my next opponent who was up on me 4-2 after a couple dry breaks of mine. I failed to get out on the 7th rack but my opponent hooked himself on his last ball behind one of my balls in the dead center of the table with the cueball halfway to one side pocket and his last ball halfway to the other side pocket. He had already called his timeout that game to wash his hands and use the restroom. When he hooked himself he said he didn't know what to do because his jump cue was being used by his friend on the other side of the arena. I told him that he already used his timeout and he should ask the ref. He calls the ref over who informs him that he cannot leave the arena but can borrow a cue from someone near by. My opponent asks the neighboring tables seated player to borrow a jump cue which the guy obliges to. (On a side note it is a home made jump cue made from what looks to be a house cue shaved down with a tip on both ends which the ref says is legal also). My opponent then performs a perfect jump stopping straight in on the 8ball leading to him being up 5-2 instead of 4-3 (lost 7-3). Did I get hosed? Should I have have asked for another opinion from a lead official? Was it lame of the other player to allow him to borrow it or good sportsmanship? Just curious as the match is over so it is what it is. Thanks!
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
So I played poor in several Masters singles matches leading up to the following situation. I am in the losers bracket as I had just played my best match beating Joey Gray. I played my next opponent who was up on me 4-2 after a couple dry breaks of mine. I failed to get out on the 7th rack but my opponent hooked himself on his last ball behind one of my balls in the dead center of the table with the cueball halfway to one side pocket and his last ball halfway to the other side pocket. He had already called his timeout that game to wash his hands and use the restroom. When he hooked himself he said he didn't know what to do because his jump cue was being used by his friend on the other side of the arena. I told him that he already used his timeout and he should ask the ref. He calls the ref over who informs him that he cannot leave the arena but can borrow a cue from someone near by. My opponent asks the neighboring tables seated player to borrow a jump cue which the guy obliges to. (On a side note it is a home made jump cue made from what looks to be a house cue shaved down with a tip on both ends which the ref says is legal also). My opponent then performs a perfect jump stopping straight in on the 8ball leading to him being up 5-2 instead of 4-3 (lost 7-3). Did I get hosed? Should I have have asked for another opinion from a lead official? Was it lame of the other player to allow him to borrow it or good sportsmanship? Just curious as the match is over so it is what it is. Thanks!

First or all the referee shouldn't have said ANYTHING. Period! It is not his job to advise players. Second of all, I'm not so sure he should even be allowed to borrow someone else's cue during the match. Same as borrowing his neighbor's break cue when it's his turn to break. Just not cool in my book. If someone he knew brought him a jump cue between games, no problem. But to go around looking for one during a game in progress, not kosher in my book. He shouldn't have loaned his jump cue out in the first place.

There should be something in the BCA rule book covering just such a situation. If not there should be. You play with the equipment YOU bring to the table. That's not so hard to understand.
 
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Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
I agree 100% with what you said Jay.
If said player only had 1 shaft for his player and the tip popped off, would he be allowed to go get a house cue or borrow one from another player, or would he forfeit his matches because he didn't have a cue.
 

Steve Lipsky

On quest for perfect 14.1
Silver Member
Hey UW,

I long ago gave up on taking that tournament seriously. From the ludicrous calls by the refs (I got hosed again this year) to the insanely rude players and their entourages to tournament schedules where you play from 8am to 2am, you're gonna drive yourself nuts if you take it seriously.

I don't even play the singles anymore, and I've been all the happier for it.

- Steve
 

Duane Tuula

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey UW,

To the point, Nik has been a nationals ref for several years so I'm sure he knows that rule. Personally, I wouldn't mind either but I do understand it sucks he made the shot and got out.

Jay, it's not the BCA anymore! It's the BCAPL and they change rules often!!! However, I do agree the ref should not have advised (coach) the player. He should have asked UW if it was "ok" first.

Steve, you are 100% correct and that is why I've not attended the last 3 years prior to 17 times at nationals. The draw and match times need to be revamped. I also find it funny the Riv posts quaterly loses and says room rates are down 28% and 20% more yet you don't see that reflected at tourney time. I heard the Sahara had decent rooms for $29.
 

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
I agree 100% with what you said Jay.
If said player only had 1 shaft for his player and the tip popped off, would he be allowed to go get a house cue or borrow one from another player, or would he forfeit his matches because he didn't have a cue.

Which brings up another question...if breaking your cue is forfeit, how is it okay to unscrew your de tipped shaft and screw on a spare?

Just askin...
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jay...These are contradictory statements. Either the player should be forced to play with what he brought (and not borrow from anybody...including friends)...or not. Which is it?...in your opinion, of course! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

If someone he knew brought him a jump cue between games, no problem.

You play with the equipment YOU bring to the table. That's not so hard to understand.
 

sliprock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Which brings up another question...if breaking your cue is forfeit, how is it okay to unscrew your de tipped shaft and screw on a spare?

Just askin...


It's fine to change shafts when it's your inning. Just don't do while your opponenet is at the table
 

ronhudson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First or all the referee shouldn't have said ANYTHING. Period! It is not his job to advise players.
<snip>

It used to be that when you asked for a ref to watch a hit, that's all he was allowed to do, watch. If the shooter asked what he was watching for, he was not allowed to tell him. I think that's changed with the new rules so that the ref will explain to the player how a foul might occur. Check with someone who knows the new rules to make sure, but I think this is how it now works.
 

TX Poolnut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
an interesting situation. I don't think I would have been too worked up about it. I, personally, don't care if you want to use someone elses stuff.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Jay...These are contradictory statements. Either the player should be forced to play with what he brought (and not borrow from anybody...including friends)...or not. Which is it?...in your opinion, of course! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I don't have a problem with someone bringing a cue to a player after the match started. Maybe they had his break cue or jump cue. I do have a problem with players going on a search to find a cue during the match. They have one and only one opportunity to do this - during their break. After that, too bad.

That said, the best rule would be you cannot add cues once the match begins - PERIOD! That solves all those type of problems. All players should have a spare cue or extra shaft as part of their equipment. If not, that's their problem. I have seen players complete matches (pros nonetheless) using their break cue because they lost a tip. One player asked me if he could go to his room to get his spare shaft. I asked him if he had already taken his break. He had - tough luck.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
It used to be that when you asked for a ref to watch a hit, that's all he was allowed to do, watch. If the shooter asked what he was watching for, he was not allowed to tell him. I think that's changed with the new rules so that the ref will explain to the player how a foul might occur. Check with someone who knows the new rules to make sure, but I think this is how it now works.

If they are trained this way, then I don't agree. It is not a referee's job to tell a player how to execute the shot. I have been asked a million times if I will call a foul on a certain shot. My response is, "You shoot it, I'll call it!"
 

jlynn73

New member
I called a ref to watch a hit at state this year, the balls were a hairs length apart and the guy thought it would be cool to just plow it.

I didnt explain to the guy why I needed a ref, the ref didnt explain why it would be a foul. It was a good hit or not, and the ref would not go into any detail until after the match if questioned.


my thoughts on the borrowing of equipment? If its your shot, you should not be having conversations with anyone, even if its a simple... can I borrow your jump cue?

how about I look at the shot first, then base my reply on what I think is best for you? No you cant borrow my jump cue(you should probably kick).
 

poolshooter74

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
to me it seems like in golf you have to have your own clubs you are not able to borrow, make do with what you have. but this should be addressed in the rule book.
 

jmurphy

SWEET
Silver Member
I also find it funny the Riv posts quaterly loses and says room rates are down 28% and 20% more yet you don't see that reflected at tourney time. I heard the Sahara had decent rooms for $29.

Well, you have to remember Mark Griffen is getting a 25% kick back from the Riv. on every room sold to BCAPL players.
 

almer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I played poor in several Masters singles matches leading up to the following situation. I am in the losers bracket as I had just played my best match beating Joey Gray. I played my next opponent who was up on me 4-2 after a couple dry breaks of mine. I failed to get out on the 7th rack but my opponent hooked himself on his last ball behind one of my balls in the dead center of the table with the cueball halfway to one side pocket and his last ball halfway to the other side pocket. He had already called his timeout that game to wash his hands and use the restroom. When he hooked himself he said he didn't know what to do because his jump cue was being used by his friend on the other side of the arena. I told him that he already used his timeout and he should ask the ref. He calls the ref over who informs him that he cannot leave the arena but can borrow a cue from someone near by. My opponent asks the neighboring tables seated player to borrow a jump cue which the guy obliges to. (On a side note it is a home made jump cue made from what looks to be a house cue shaved down with a tip on both ends which the ref says is legal also). My opponent then performs a perfect jump stopping straight in on the 8ball leading to him being up 5-2 instead of 4-3 (lost 7-3). Did I get hosed? Should I have have asked for another opinion from a lead official? Was it lame of the other player to allow him to borrow it or good sportsmanship? Just curious as the match is over so it is what it is. Thanks!
i was there and saw that happen,i always thought the rule was you had to use what is in your bag,it is a legal cue made by a guy i forget but i think name is chilton
 

Banks

Banned
It kinda sucks that somebody should be able to borrow equipment that they hadn't made sure to have with them, but.. I'm sure the rule was created so that in case somebody's tip popped off or worse happened that they would still be able to continue playing.
 

Mark Griffin

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Riviera

Well, you have to remember Mark Griffen is getting a 25% kick back from the Riv. on every room sold to BCAPL players.

You, sir are full of s**t. Although most events receive a 'room rebate' - I do not know of ANY that even get close to your 25%.

I will always take criticism like a man - but posts that are so far off - that they are funny - just confuse the public.

Please get your facts straight!!!!!!!

Mark Griffin
 

rayjay

some of the kids
Silver Member
You, sir are full of s**t. Although most events receive a 'room rebate' - I do not know of ANY that even get close to your 25%.

I will always take criticism like a man - but posts that are so far off - that they are funny - just confuse the public.

Please get your facts straight!!!!!!!

Mark Griffin


so, how much do you get?
 
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