A different perspective on the Mosconi Cup

NYC cue dude · Dec 5, 2013

We were all witness to the savage beating the Euros delivered upon team USA. That's not what this thread is about. It's not about who won or who lost.

I think we can all agree that the Mosconi Cup is the mostly widely viewed TV broadcast for our sport, each and every year. It is watched by fans, other pro players and industry members alike. If you are interested in pool, its appointment viewing.

It took me a few days to put my finger on it, but there was something bothering me during these matches, beyond the disparity of the score. I watched and didn't like what I saw. It's safe to say that most of our industry members felt the same way. Coming from the American side, we oozed complete unprofessionalism. The teams body language conveyed contempt, entitlement and disinterest. The vulgar language was even worse. That the commentators had to, on multiple occasions, apologize to the viewers for this behavior, is incomprehensible. Then of course, there was Earl. He personally attacked his opponents, verbally, during multiple matches. He cheated, by intentionally sharking the other players. As has been said before, he embarrassed himself, his team, the promoters, the sport and his country. What made all of this look worse, if its even possible, is the exemplary behavior of the European team. They did everything right.

The point I'm trying to make is that the impression team USA made in public, was devastating. Who in their right mind would consider investing in American pool? Who would ever consider sponsoring anything pool related, after watching our "elite representatives" behave the way they did? Badi Nazhat just very recently addressed the problems of American Pool. Mark Griffin has as well. Those that understood what they were saying is that the problems center around unprofessionalism and disrespect. As the American pool scene crumbles around them, the players still refuse to head the warnings.

It is indeed a very sad day for American pool. Not because team USA lost. But because they continue in failing to learn from their mistakes.

MOJOE · Dec 5, 2013

It's hard to argue with any of the points the NYC has to say. It was rather sad!

spanky79 · Dec 5, 2013

NYC cue dude said:
We were all witness to the savage beating the Euros delivered upon team USA. That's not what this thread is about. It's not about who won or who lost.

I think we can all agree that the Mosconi Cup is the mostly widely viewed TV broadcast for our sport, each and every year. It is watched by fans, other pro players and industry members alike. If you are interested in pool, its appointment viewing.

It took me a few days to put my finger on it, but there was something bothering me during these matches, beyond the disparity of the score. I watched and didn't like what I saw. It's safe to say that most of our industry members felt the same way. Coming from the American side, we oozed complete unprofessionalism. The teams body language conveyed contempt, entitlement and disinterest. The vulgar language was even worse. That the commentators had to, on multiple occasions, apologize to the viewers for this behavior, is incomprehensible. Then of course, there was Earl. He personally attacked his opponents, verbally, during multiple matches. He cheated, by intentionally sharking the other players. As has been said before, he embarrassed himself, his team, the promoters, the sport and his country. What made all of this look worse, if its even possible, is the exemplary behavior of the European team. They did everything right.

The point I'm trying to make is that the impression team USA made in public, was devastating. Who in their right mind would consider investing in American pool? Who would ever consider sponsoring anything pool related, after watching our "elite representatives" behave the way they did? Badi Nazhat just very recently addressed the problems of American Pool. Mark Griffin has as well. Those that understood what they were saying is that the problems center around unprofessionalism and disrespect. As the American pool scene crumbles around them, the players still refuse to head the warnings.

It is indeed a very sad day for American pool. Not because team USA lost. But because they continue in failing to learn from their mistakes.

Could not have said it any better. Its just sad.

Johnnyt · Dec 5, 2013

Well said NYC Dude. Johnnyt

Kid Dynomite · Dec 5, 2013

Very well said!!!

KD

JAM · Dec 5, 2013

While I appreciate the thread, reading these same thoughts over and over again is like pounding the members of Team USA with a hammer after they have lost. Don't you think they feel bad enough as it is? What else can be said after reading the hundreds of posts last night and today about what a POS the American pro is?

It is tragic that the state of pool is what it is here in the America, but there seems to be a caste system. The BCA members should be held accountable for letting professional pool die in the manner which it has.

You wonder why American pros are the way they are? Because there's no tour, no BCA support, no WPA support, nothing.

So while we can continue to verbally tar and feather the members of Team USA and other American pro players, it's not entirely the fault of these pros.

Nothing will change if we keep hammering in the same thoughts, stereotyping all American pros. If the American pros had something to shoot for, you'd see a different American pro. That's my perspective of the Mosconi Cup.

BCA needs to have their authority ripped away from them, and some new entity needs to take the reigns. When that unmentionable IPT came to the fore, the pros acted and dressed professionally. It's not so far-fetched to think that if they had something ot shoot for, they'd conduct themselves differently.

Hungarian · Dec 5, 2013

Why should America be concerned with the success of the MC? It's self-serving entertainment for Europe and profit for Barry. I mean Barry won't even get us Americans a nice way to watch the damn thing. I've got to scramble around looking for a stream and hoping my PC doesn't get infected at the same time. Who cares anymore ... it's a farce

mia · Dec 5, 2013

JAM said:
While I appreciate the thread, reading these same thoughts over and over again is like pounding the members of Team USA with a hammer after they have lost. Don't you think they feel bad enough as it is? What else can be said after reading the hundreds of posts last night and today about what a POS the American pro is?

To be honest, no. I don't think the members of the team feel that way at all. They certainly gave a LOT of people the impression that they just didn't care throughout the course of the cup. Why would they care in hindsight??

I get that you're an avid loyalist to pro pool players and that's all right and well. But you can't be blind to all of this. Maybe the BCA is to blame. Maybe there DOES need to be a change. Maybe its not the player's fault that pool is in the state that its in. But perhaps the best way to get people to respect the game a bit more is if the players start acting in a respectable manner. If they want things to change, they need to help that process along in any way possible. Acting like a bunch of unprofessional, entitled, unsportsmanlike pool players sure ain't gonna help their cause. It will only hurt them more.

Hungarian · Dec 5, 2013

You people are blind to not see how Barry Hearn's MC is driving a wedge between the American players and the American Fans. Why don't you all just switch over to Team Euro?

RussPrince · Dec 5, 2013

NYC cue dude said:
I think we can all agree that the Mosconi Cup is the mostly widely viewed TV broadcast for our sport, each and every year. It is watched by fans, other pro players and industry members alike. If you are interested in pool, its appointment viewing.

I disagree. I've been playing 25 years so I do have a tad interest in the game, but I didn't know/care when or where it was broadcasted and wasn't interested in watching it in the least. Nor do I know a single player in any of the 3 (very busy) pool halls I frequent that did either.

What's has been entertaining to me is coming to here to the main forum and reading threads obsessing over it

JCIN · Dec 5, 2013

NYC cue dude said:
We were all witness to the savage beating the Euros delivered upon team USA. That's not what this thread is about. It's not about who won or who lost.

I think we can all agree that the Mosconi Cup is the mostly widely viewed TV broadcast for our sport, each and every year. It is watched by fans, other pro players and industry members alike. If you are interested in pool, its appointment viewing.

It took me a few days to put my finger on it, but there was something bothering me during these matches, beyond the disparity of the score. I watched and didn't like what I saw. It's safe to say that most of our industry members felt the same way. Coming from the American side, we oozed complete unprofessionalism. The teams body language conveyed contempt, entitlement and disinterest. The vulgar language was even worse. That the commentators had to, on multiple occasions, apologize to the viewers for this behavior, is incomprehensible. Then of course, there was Earl. He personally attacked his opponents, verbally, during multiple matches. He cheated, by intentionally sharking the other players. As has been said before, he embarrassed himself, his team, the promoters, the sport and his country. What made all of this look worse, if its even possible, is the exemplary behavior of the European team. They did everything right.

The point I'm trying to make is that the impression team USA made in public, was devastating. Who in their right mind would consider investing in American pool? Who would ever consider sponsoring anything pool related, after watching our "elite representatives" behave the way they did? Badi Nazhat just very recently addressed the problems of American Pool. Mark Griffin has as well. Those that understood what they were saying is that the problems center around unprofessionalism and disrespect. As the American pool scene crumbles around them, the players still refuse to head the warnings.

It is indeed a very sad day for American pool. Not because team USA lost. But because they continue in failing to learn from their mistakes.

It was sad.

Rodney, Hatch and Earl cussing like sailors on live television was the icing on the cake. Dropping a shit or one f bomb in the heat of the moment when you are mic'ed up is understandable but the continual repeating of cuss words means one of two things: They were too dumb to know they are mic'ed or they simply do not care what they look and sound like. I don't think anyone on either team is that dumb.

That means most of Team USA simply doesnt give a shit about how they look or represent the USA. This whole event just shined a light directly on how rotten the culture of pro pool is in the US at the moment. Earl was pure poison for this team. I honestly don't think they ever had a chance to outrun that weight on their backs. He is simply a cancer for any type of team. Mix that in with the already existing issues of some of the players and its easy to see how something like this came to pass.

I agree 100% with the OP though. There is no excuse for the conduct displayed. Here is a chance on the biggest stage to show class and professionalism and the US squad about the worst thing possible at every turn.

Hungarian · Dec 5, 2013

You have a job that pays you an income and you are thankful for your job and I would bet you act in a professional way at your job ... correct?

Do you think Dennis Hatch views the MC the same way you view your job?

Have the wheels ever fallen off in your life?

Well, that's how life is every day for 99% of American Pool Players ... wheels are off most of the time as they struggle from event to event trying to hustle up enough to not have to sponge any more from their closest supporters.

So don't expect perfect behavior from pool players on the edge.

Why don't you consider moving to England?

They get the MC on telly over there

mia said:
To be honest, no. I don't think the members of the team feel that way at all. They certainly gave a LOT of people the impression that they just didn't care throughout the course of the cup. Why would they care in hindsight??

I get that you're an avid loyalist to pro pool players and that's all right and well. But you can't be blind to all of this. Maybe the BCA is to blame. Maybe there DOES need to be a change. Maybe its not the player's fault that pool is in the state that its in. But perhaps the best way to get people to respect the game a bit more is if the players start acting in a respectable manner. If they want things to change, they need to help that process along in any way possible. Acting like a bunch of unprofessional, entitled, unsportsmanlike pool players sure ain't gonna help their cause. It will only hurt them more.

NYC cue dude · Dec 5, 2013

RussPrince said:
I disagree. I've been playing 25 years so I do have a tad interest in the game, but I didn't know/care when or where it was broadcasted and wasn't interested in watching it in the least. Nor do I know a single player in any of the 3 (very busy) pool halls I frequent that did either.

That may very well be true. But for those that are interested in watching such televised events, the Mosconi Cup is the cream of the crop. There isn't a televised pool event anywhere in the world that is more widely viewed.

For those that like football, they have the Super Bowl. For those that like baseball, they have the World Series. Pool has the Mosconi Cup. That you're an American and did not know or care about this particular event is instructive and speaks precisely to the point I was making.

JAM · Dec 5, 2013

mia said:
To be honest, no. I don't think the members of the team feel that way at all. They certainly gave a LOT of people the impression that they just didn't care throughout the course of the cup. Why would they care in hindsight??

I get that you're an avid loyalist to pro pool players and that's all right and well. But you can't be blind to all of this. Maybe the BCA is to blame. Maybe there DOES need to be a change. Maybe its not the player's fault that pool is in the state that its in. But perhaps the best way to get people to respect the game a bit more is if the players start acting in a respectable manner. If they want things to change, they need to help that process along in any way possible. Acting like a bunch of unprofessional, entitled, unsportsmanlike pool players sure ain't gonna help their cause. It will only hurt them more.

Well, they certainly didn't act in the manner you portray when they had a tour. The BCA collects dues from its members to support industry, but the name of the group is BILLIARD CONGRESS OF AMERICA. All these years, they are supposed to be the North American representative of professional pool. If they had done their job, what the organization was supposed to do, things might look quite differently today, including the professional player.

Instead, they sold the league system, which could have been one mechanism to cultive pool, dropped the BCA Open tournament for pros, and to be quite honest, I don't understand what the purpose is of the group whatsoever. If it is to support industry members, fine. Then change their name to Billird Industry Members of America.

Currently, on another note, there's a cradle-to-prison pipeline going on in America. One out of every 100 Americans are incarcerated. One-third of American high school studentes will not recieve a high school diploma. The school of thought is to educate our children, provide them a decent environment to learn in, and let them grow up with a foundation to be somebody.

Same holds true for pool. Give the youth something to shoot for. Cultive new American professionals, instead of letting them scramble from coast to coast looking for crumbs to live off of, making savers at tournaments to survive, falling for the stupid Bonus Ball promises, dancing like monkeys, only to get stiffed. They're starved, hungry professional players with no future to look forward to. They're doing what they gotta do to survive.

Hungarian · Dec 5, 2013

Why don't you move the TAR studio to England

JCIN said:
It was sad.

Rodney, Hatch and Earl cussing like sailors on live television was the icing on the cake. Dropping a shit or one f bomb in the heat of the moment when you are mic'ed up is understandable but the continual repeating of cuss words means one of two things: They were too dumb to know they are mic'ed or they simply do not care what they look and sound like. I don't think anyone on either team is that dumb.

That means most of Team USA simply doesnt give a shit about how they look or represent the USA. This whole event just shined a light directly on how rotten the culture of pro pool is in the US at the moment. Earl was pure poison for this team. I honestly don't think they ever had a chance to outrun that weight on their backs. He is simply a cancer for any type of team. Mix that in with the already existing issues of some of the players and its easy to see how something like this came to pass.

I agree 100% with the OP though. There is no excuse for the conduct displayed. Here is a chance on the biggest stage to show class and professionalism and the US squad about the worst thing possible at every turn.

JCIN · Dec 5, 2013

Hungarian said:
Why should America be concerned with the success of the MC? It's self-serving entertainment for Europe and profit for Barry. I mean Barry won't even get us Americans a nice way to watch the damn thing. I've got to scramble around looking for a stream and hoping my PC doesn't get infected at the same time. Who cares anymore ... it's a farce

This is a valid question.

MC is a TV show. Barry Hearn is a producer not a network. How do you propose he puts it on the air if no US networks want to carry it live? A stream perhaps but then I suspect the juice wouldnt be worth the squeeze for him in the first place. I understand the frustration of not being able to see it but I also understand no US tv network wants anything to do with pool. Its amazing he got the Fox Sports 2 time that he did.

In Hearn's defense the US waxed that ass for many a year before the Euros woke up. I assure you this year did not help matchroom out. A white wash where you miss an entire day of scheduled live programming is not a good thing.

cleary · Dec 5, 2013

Just a few reasons why you're wrong. There are more ratings and money in the "crazy business" than there are in boring games.

NYC cue dude · Dec 5, 2013

JAM said:
Well, they certainly didn't act in the manner you portray when they had a tour. The BCA collects dues from its members to support industry, but the name of the group is BILLIARD CONGRESS OF AMERICA. All these years, they are supposed to be the North American representative of professional pool. If they had done their job, what the organization was supposed to do, things might look quite differently today, including the professional player.

Instead, they sold the league system, which could have been one mechanism to cultive pool, dropped the BCA Open tournament for pros, and to be quite honest, I don't understand what the purpose is of the group whatsoever. If it is to support industry members, fine. Then change their name to Billird Industry Members of America.

Currently, on another note, there's a cradle-to-prison pipeline going on in America. One out of every 100 Americans are incarcerated. One-third of American high school studentes will not recieve a high school diploma. The school of thought is to educate our children, provide them a decent environment to learn in, and let them grow up with a foundation to be somebody.

Same holds true for pool. Give the youth something to shoot for. Cultive new American professionals, instead of letting them scramble from coast to coast looking for crumbs to live off of, making savers at tournaments to survive, falling for the stupid Bonus Ball promises, dancing like monkeys, only to get stiffed. They're starved, hungry professional players with no future to look forward to. They're doing what they gotta do to survive.

I empathize with you Jenny. But if you are being objective, you'd have to agree that you don't bite the hand that feeds you. I can't imagine that Barry Hearn is too happy with how the Americans behaved. Notice I didn't say, played. I won't be surprised if we see MAJOR changes next year. Badi Nazhat said in his letter something to the effect that players have to start doing their part. They have to live up to their end of the bargain. There's more to it than just showing up. When are they going to start? It may be too late for them in this particular format.

JCIN · Dec 5, 2013

Hungarian said:
Why don't you move the TAR studio to England

The weather sucks, the food is horrible and I refuse to live in a place where the idea of freedom is viewed as a quaint idea not for everyone.

Other than that...totally an option.

cleary · Dec 5, 2013

JCIN said:
How do you propose he puts it on the air if no US networks want to carry it live?

Imagine the FCC fines Rodney would have racked up.

A different perspective on the Mosconi Cup

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