Chinese 8 Ball - I'm not convinced

V

voiceofreason

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not at all convinced by the Chinese 8 Ball and not entirely sure what they are trying to achieve.

I smell a rat but I can't pin it down..

If there are "gazillions" playing and watching it - how come there were only ever a few hundred watching it at any one time when I was watching it?

If there are "gazillions" playing it, how come invited players, notably British to be fair, can rock up to China having never practised or played it before and beat everyone put in front of them?

If there are "gazillions" watching and playing it - why so many invited players from other disciplines?

(If I was a Chinese 8 ball discipline player I might be somewhat insulted by that.)

If the purpose of the invited players is to gain a global market, how come it was not shown on TV channels in other nations?

We have all heard rumours of "paid for" Chinese audiences at sporting events.

It looks, feels and smells iffy.

Is it just me or does it smell funny to others?
 
ZeroSkylineX

ZeroSkylineX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
1. Where the heck did you come up with these statistics?
2. Clearly you've never heard of English 8 ball, it's quite similar to Chinese 8 ball. That's why the British are more familiar with it than the Americans.
3. Because Mandarin is not an internationally understood language? Only a specific (majority) ethnicity would understand it.
4. What exactly do you think they're trying to achieve?
 
V

voiceofreason

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ZeroSkylineX said:
1. Where the heck did you come up with these statistics?
Click to expand...

Places like Gareth Potts website and facebook posts and the like.

2. Clearly you've never heard of English 8 ball, it's quite similar to Chinese 8 ball. That's why the British are more familiar with it than the Americans.
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Well, I'm British, based in GB and play on the IPA international tour and very familiar with E8B, which is nothing like C8B at all.

All the boys I know from the tour who were having a bash at this were practising with American balls on snooker tables in the run up to the event - using American cues.

3. Because Mandarin is not an internationally understood language? Only a specific (majority) ethnicity would understand it.
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I don't understand your point?

Sports are often held in foreign lands and yet have a global reach.

4. What exactly do you think they're trying to achieve?
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Clueless, which was kind of my point.
 
R

RichSchultz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
voiceofreason said:
Places like Gareth Potts website and facebook posts and the like.



Well, I'm British, based in GB and play on the IPA international tour and very familiar with E8B, which is nothing like C8B at all.

All the boys I know from the tour who were having a bash at this were practising with American balls on snooker tables in the run up to the event - using American cues.



I don't understand your point?

Sports are often held in foreign lands and yet have a global reach.



Clueless, which was kind of my point.
Click to expand...
Drop mic! Nice response!
 
ZeroSkylineX

ZeroSkylineX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
voiceofreason said:
Places like Gareth Potts website and facebook posts and the like.



Well, I'm British, based in GB and play on the IPA international tour and very familiar with E8B, which is nothing like C8B at all.

All the boys I know from the tour who were having a bash at this were practising with American balls on snooker tables in the run up to the event - using American cues.



I don't understand your point?

Sports are often held in foreign lands and yet have a global reach.



Clueless, which was kind of my point.
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If what you mean by a couple hundred people as gazillion, then I apologize for your not understanding your over exaggeration. http://alison-chang.com/2016/03/12/2016-yushan-2nd-china-billiard-world-championship/

I mentioned E8B is similar to C8B because of how the corners are cut, they both use snooker-like pockets. The only questionable concern is how fast / slow the cloth and rails react. That's why (in my opinion), the British have an advantage because the balls are smaller and pockets are similar. That's a huge difference compared to American 8 ball. I don't play competitively on either, but I've played on them both to have a feel of it. Again this is just my opinion on the matter.

Foreign events never receive much global exposure because of the language barrier which I tried to explain earlier. English is internationally spoken and written throughout the world which makes it significantly easier to expose and promote. I honestly don't believe that foreign countries are aiming for a global exposure, but more of national exposure first. It promotes local involvement and sport awareness. It's obvious these events aren't as big as Matchroom sport events, they gotta take it one step at a time. I mean really, if I posted a Chinese 8 ball championships poster in your local pool hall written entirely in Chinese, would you honestly expect more viewership?

Take eSports for example. South Korea is notoriously known for being a competitively gaming country and everything is written and commentated in Korean. Because it's so successful in the gaming industry, there are (foreign) English commentators on site, commentating and translating the events. That is what you call global exposure. If billiards were as big as eSports, I can imagine the same happening to future foreign billiard events.
 
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M.G.

M.G.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why do you smell a rat and what would that be?
Not having a huge audience? Would that be a problem and impact your viewing experience?

For me, I do enjoy C8B and I'd gladly watch Chinese 9 ball, if there was one.
I enjoy the venue and high class players and that you get to see Snookerists and Poolers to play with differing equipment and styles. Also seeing players miss balls is great and I love how sensitive they play each shot - and have to.
Snooker even can be very forceful at times.

Cheers!
 
V

voiceofreason

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ZeroSkylineX said:
If what you mean by a couple hundred people as gazillion, then I apologize for your not understanding your over exaggeration. http://alison-chang.com/2016/03/12/2016-yushan-2nd-china-billiard-world-championship/
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I forget often you colonial chaps don't understand the delicate art of sarcasm.

The Chinese and certain advocates claim that loads watch it, yet any time I was tuned in there appeared to be hardly any watching it in actual fact.

I mentioned E8B is similar to C8B because of how the corners are cut, they both use snooker-like pockets. The only questionable concern is how fast / slow the cloth and rails react. That's why (in my opinion), the British have an advantage because the balls are smaller and pockets are similar. That's a huge difference compared to American 8 ball. I don't play competitively on either, but I've played on them both to have a feel of it. Again this is just my opinion on the matter.
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The balls in use were standard A8B pool balls. E8B balls are quite a bit smaller and with a smaller white also. The C8B tables are cut like snooker tables rather than E8B tables.

The only "advantage" if at all that the E8B players would have had is in their patterns.

Foreign events never receive much global exposure because of the language barrier which I tried to explain earlier. English is internationally spoken and written throughout the world which makes it significantly easier to expose and promote. I honestly don't believe that foreign countries are aiming for a global exposure, but more of national exposure first. It promotes local involvement and sport awareness. It's obvious these events aren't as big as Matchroom sport events, they gotta take it one step at a time. I mean really, if I posted a Chinese 8 ball championships poster in your local pool hall written entirely in Chinese, would you honestly expect more viewership?

Take eSports for example. South Korea is notoriously known for being a competitively gaming country and everything is written and commentated in Korean. Because it's so successful in the gaming industry, there are (foreign) English commentators on site, commentating and translating the events. That is what you call global exposure. If billiards were as big as eSports, I can imagine the same happening to future foreign billiard events.
Click to expand...

I am not saying it was their aim to get it to a global market. I have no idea what their true aim is - it's very confusing!

It is actually quite easy to get a sport on to, say, Eurosport - and quite easy to English, French, German or indeed any other commentary over the top of a feed - indeed, Eurosport have been doing that very thing for years.

I have myself commentated for Eurosport for E8B - many moons ago. 2002 to be precise for the Professional World Championships.
 
S

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great fun and great competition for elite players. Some of the safety exchanges in the tournament were similar to those I've seen excellent social players play with regular "straight" cut pockets. On a A8B table any elite pro (whether from a A8B, C8B, E8B or even snooker background would have gone for run outs far more often with those patterns. I like it and I don't like it - the normal range of pool shots can't be played (or become insanely difficult to play) so it isn't really pool anymore. I'd personally rather play snooker. But it is a test and has its place in the calendar.

Barry Hearn - WPA - World 8 Ball ("A8B") - China - big prize money - good tournament structure ........ is probably the answer I for one is looking for.
 
Scaramouche

Scaramouche

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cue sports are big in China.

China is the largest TV audience - one snooker match attracted 115 million viewers.

The player with the most lucrative endorsements is Ding Junhui - makes more money than Ronnie.

Retired (Stephen Hendry) and disgraced (Stephen Lee) snooker players have well paying gigs in China.
They want to become the best, so they must attract the best to their tournaments.

China has five world ranking snooker tournaments, and they do not attract full houses. Conditions are not always optimum - Ever see a player using two gloves?

China invented its own game.
It takes time for a new game to attract followers.
Snooker, for example, can't penetrate the U.S.

If American pool can't find a market on U.S. sports channels, what chance has any other cue sport?
 
V

voiceofreason

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Scaramouche said:
Cue sports are big in China.

China is the largest TV audience - one snooker match attracted 115 million viewers.

The player with the most lucrative endorsements is Ding Junhui - makes more money than Ronnie.

Retired (Stephen Hendry) and disgraced (Stephen Lee) snooker players have well paying gigs in China.
They want to become the best, so they must attract the best to their tournaments.

China has five world ranking snooker tournaments, and they do not attract full houses. Conditions are not always optimum - Ever see a player using two gloves?

China invented its own game.
It takes time for a new game to attract followers.
Snooker, for example, can't penetrate the U.S.

If American pool can't find a market on U.S. sports channels, what chance has any other cue sport?
Click to expand...

I was thinking more globally than the USA. I'm not sure what the criteria is for getting a sport on the TV in the USA but in Europe - it's free and easy. They are crying out for sports - its the cost of production that is the stumbling block.

Yeah Gareth Potts has a lucrative personal deal too.

My impression from this BBC article is that snooker is on the decline and the Chinese people who it is in their culture to see their people do well generally like to follow sports where that takes place.

This sport could be killed off before it even starts - simply because they are generally pants cue sportists

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32429022

Mindful of the hoo ha over the chinese 8 ball event in the first place with the WPA - I'm a little uncomfortable in any event.
 
Cardigan Kid

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm going to have to agree with the OP. I'm not buying the supposed allure of Chinese 8 Ball.
I recently sat down and attempted to watch the match between Darren and Pin Yi Ko....
https://youtu.be/UUzmfhpQ21Y

Over 3 hours long! Two of my favorite players to watch as of late playing on a table that handcuffed both of their skill sets. Sure there was more strategy and tactical play. But the slow cloth and limiting pockets just puts the sport back in the dark ages.

Maybe I'm spoiled because I attended the Accu-stats 8 ball invitational in 2014, and I saw high flying sheer fire power matches that I'll never forget-it was 8-ball played at the highest level on a table that allowed it to be. That match between Earl and Francisco was one for the ages. But if it was on a C8B table, those stellar shots would never have been performed, and the match would've been twice as long.

No thanks. For today's sports media market, everyone wants faster: quicker edits, faster game play, more offense....And Chinese 8-ball appears to be everything but that.
 
Bella Don't Cry

Bella Don't Cry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
voiceofreason said:
I'm not at all convinced by the Chinese 8 Ball and not entirely sure what they are trying to achieve.

I smell a rat but I can't pin it down..

If there are "gazillions" playing and watching it - how come there were only ever a few hundred watching it at any one time when I was watching it?

If there are "gazillions" playing it, how come invited players, notably British to be fair, can rock up to China having never practised or played it before and beat everyone put in front of them?

If there are "gazillions" watching and playing it - why so many invited players from other disciplines?

(If I was a Chinese 8 ball discipline player I might be somewhat insulted by that.)

If the purpose of the invited players is to gain a global market, how come it was not shown on TV channels in other nations?

We have all heard rumours of "paid for" Chinese audiences at sporting events.

It looks, feels and smells iffy.

Is it just me or does it smell funny to others?
Click to expand...

There is a few $$$ behind it. Will that be enough, who knows? :thumb:
 
Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
I've always thought this table/size/ball size and pocket shape were to create their own entity in pool. They knew the 6x12 Snooker was too tough a nut to crack so they took another course, but something ''is'' missing. If your gonna play this game right, play it on a Blue logo Diamond Bar table, with a new ball set.
 
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Keith Jawahir

Keith Jawahir

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Someone is trying something new for pocket cue sports and using international stars to attract attention, banking on the already large following in that country. Whether it succeeds or fails, it's better than what we have in the states right now. The only thing I would fault the Chinese promoters for is not marketing the competitions more broadly. 8-ball is already the most recognizable form of pool, I think maybe some English commentary would help grow the game.

This reminds me of the dozens of threads we've had here in the past where someone tries something new and this is the best place for the knockers to come. Just another day on AZ.
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
In general I liked it. A very tough game on a tough table with many very good players competing. And for decent prize money as well. All good imo. I saw nice crowds when a Chinese player was playing, which is quite understandable. Doubtful there would have been such a big crowd if Darren and Mick had been the finalists. Mick vs. Shi created the perfect scenario, China vs. the rest of the world.

My only real complaint was the length of the matches. They are borrowing too much from Snooker with these extremely long matches. Races to nine and eleven in the later going would be fine imo. The finals to 21 was a little over the top! :eek:
As far as i'm concerned if this is the format that gains a foothold for cue sports internationally then I'm all for it.
 
PhilosopherKing

PhilosopherKing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Keith Jawahir said:
Someone is trying something new for pocket cue sports and using international stars to attract attention, banking on the already large following in that country. Whether it succeeds or fails, it's better than what we have in the states right now. The only thing I would fault the Chinese promoters for is not marketing the competitions more broadly. 8-ball is already the most recognizable form of pool, I think maybe some English commentary would help grow the game.

This reminds me of the dozens of threads we've had here in the past where someone tries something new and this is the best place for the knockers to come. Just another day on AZ.
Click to expand...

Inviting an international field to play their proprietary game in a Chinese-saturated field is hardly an act on magnanimity: It's a slaughter, nothing more than a big, gilded nationalist ego-trip... Another cog in a silly propaganda machine.

An American promoter should return the hospitality and invite the Chinese 8-ballers here for a blockbuster one-pocket event, over-the-top fanfare and all, and then steam it for the whole world to see.
 
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V

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
PhilosopherKing said:
Inviting an international field to play their propitiatory game in a Chinese-saturated field is hardly an act on magnanimity: It's a slaughter, nothing more than a big, gilded nationalist ego-trip... Another cog in a silly propaganda machine.

An American promoter should return the hospitality and invite the Chinese 8-ballers here for a blockbuster one-pocket event, over-the-top fanfare and all, and then steam it for the whole world to see.
Click to expand...

No one is stopping them!
 
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