Do you have real friends though? Like humans that you see in real life that enjoy being around you? Just curious. Please answer honestly, we’re betting on it.
Siming Chen vs Donny Mills
- Thread starter Joe_Jaguar
- Start date
Do you have real friends though? Like humans that you see in real life that enjoy being around you? Just curious. Please answer honestly, we’re betting on it.
and you are going to pay off based on his word? Man i have some bets for you :smile:
I loss a sweat bet taking Donnie !
Pool is still pool..Better cloth & Equipment but as far as handicapping still pretty much the same...I bet Donny on the way he played a few years ago..when he placed high in the US open and was consistently playing at a pretty high level..In fact we were negotiating a match with Robb Saez & he was offering the last 3 playing 10 ball..No way he could do that now...He just loss a step for whatever reason..Happens to all players eventually some sooner than later..Siming is in her prime & still climbing which is why she edged him out..I don't get around & have my ear on the ground like use to so didn't realize Donny wasn't performing quite the same..Not a knock on him or taking anything away from her..It is what it is..just my 2 cents !
Pool is still pool..Better cloth & Equipment but as far as handicapping still pretty much the same...I bet Donny on the way he played a few years ago..when he placed high in the US open and was consistently playing at a pretty high level..In fact we were negotiating a match with Robb Saez & he was offering the last 3 playing 10 ball..No way he could do that now...He just loss a step for whatever reason..Happens to all players eventually some sooner than later..Siming is in her prime & still climbing which is why she edged him out..I don't get around & have my ear on the ground like use to so didn't realize Donny wasn't performing quite the same..Not a knock on him or taking anything away from her..It is what it is..just my 2 cents !
This *was* the rematch.
So many thoughts but just time for one...
Anyone that labels Donnie or any of us that thought he was the favorite as chauvinists are doing so only because it's the simple thing to do. Look at it from Donnie's perspective: As of today, there is exactly 1 woman in the known universe that would be a favorite against him and a very slight favorite at that. If any player on this forum was in that sort of rarified air against any group of players you would think you were stealing too and you would let us all know about it.
Anyone that labels Donnie or any of us that thought he was the favorite as chauvinists are doing so only because it's the simple thing to do. Look at it from Donnie's perspective: As of today, there is exactly 1 woman in the known universe that would be a favorite against him and a very slight favorite at that. If any player on this forum was in that sort of rarified air against any group of players you would think you were stealing too and you would let us all know about it.
Msg me so we can get the story straight, brah....
It's real easy to paint with a broad brush. It has been said multiple times in this thread that the chauvinists were the ones actively saying women's Fargorates were not equal to men's, despite the dude behind Fargorate actually stepping in and demonstrating that was incorrect with examples of women performing exactly as their Fargorate predicted when playing top males in tournaments. But I guess the males magically learn new shots when they gamble?
THOSE people are the ones who really deserved to lose their money.
And for the record, she really didn't shoot her top game consistently in any of the three sets she won... How strong is that?
Realistically, it will take a few more women beating up on dudes before those fellows learn to be more respectful of the top women's game.
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Tap tap, I wish some of the fans could be as humble and, well, decent, as these two.
They both were true professionals.
This isn't some guy talking trash, saying he'll rob someone.
Nobody had the attitude that they were stealing or gonna horse**** anyone.
Donny just felt he's a bit underclocked in Fargo (and he might be)
and that Siming is a big overclocked (and she might be). So he made a calculated bet.
Afterwards, he wasn't salty, he shook hands, posed for pictures, was very gracious in the post-match interview.
He and Siming chatted for a minute about the crucial shot of the last rack. Donny and co. even took home
the match poster with her signature.
It's weird to me that people are waaaay more defensive and hostile about either player's skills,
than the players themselves.
As an aside, I loved the professional atmosphere and production values of this thing...
you go there and see this huge lighting rig, big TV-style camera, ref in uniform, multiple monitors and commentators and booth techs...
it feels like a the finals of a tournament and not just two dudes gambling in someone's basement.
Not an excuse at all. Donnie knew what he was getting into. More of just an observation and opinion based on my experience.
Only 1?
I count at least 6 others with a higher Fargo Rating.
Can you explain why they wouldn’t also be slight favorites against Donny?
Todays equipment
The equipment today evens the playing field a lot for Women to compete on the same level as men..not being chauvinist ..just facts...All the greats of yesteryear all had a powerstroke which today the same results can be achieved with spinning the cueball around the table with the fast cloths & such.
The equipment today evens the playing field a lot for Women to compete on the same level as men..not being chauvinist ..just facts...All the greats of yesteryear all had a powerstroke which today the same results can be achieved with spinning the cueball around the table with the fast cloths & such.
Jay, here's the thread you started 8 years ago introducing Ms. Chen to lots of us: https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=227796
I'm not sure that I agree with this particular point. Donny was sure that his Fargo Rating was too low, but after these three sets against Chen, either she is HIGHER than 783, or Donny's rating is accurate. My understanding is that these three sets came out about right per both of their current ratings.
I said a year or so ago that I thought she was 15-20 points overrated. I still think this is true although it's probably closer to 10-15. I love FargoRate and think it's the best thing that has happened to pool in quite some time but I think there's one remaining tiny flaw that's still working itself out and it's all in the coupling of the data.
Look at it this way -- if there was an island that played only bar table 6 ball and there was a player on this island that played this particular game almost perfectly to the point where his FR was 100 points better than everyone else's on this island and then he got his rating coupled with everyone else's by going to the States and playing SVB bar table 6 ball, well his rating wouldn't drop much because he plays this game about as good as it can be played. That's sort of how I view the 9 Ball game that Siming plays against the women. Fast cloth, template rack 9 Ball can only be played so well and she's reached the pinnacle, although she would need to run more racks against players around her FR to maintain her rating.
Ultimately, this is just a curiosity for me. I love her game and her approach to it. The jacked up shot she hit on one of those 8 balls last night was one of the greatest shots I've ever seen. Also, the heart Donnie showed to get that set back to hill-hill was unbelievable! Most players would have packed it in at that point.
Look at it this way -- if there was an island that played only bar table 6 ball and there was a player on this island that played this particular game almost perfectly to the point where his FR was 100 points better than everyone else's on this island and then he got his rating coupled with everyone else's by going to the States and playing SVB bar table 6 ball, well his rating wouldn't drop much because he plays this game about as good as it can be played. That's sort of how I view the 9 Ball game that Siming plays against the women. Fast cloth, template rack 9 Ball can only be played so well and she's reached the pinnacle, although she would need to run more racks against players around her FR to maintain her rating.
Ultimately, this is just a curiosity for me. I love her game and her approach to it. The jacked up shot she hit on one of those 8 balls last night was one of the greatest shots I've ever seen. Also, the heart Donnie showed to get that set back to hill-hill was unbelievable! Most players would have packed it in at that point.
"Only 1?
I count at least 6 others with a higher Fargo Rating.
Can you explain why they wouldn’t also be slight favorites against Donny?"
Sure. They would all be underdogs against Siming too. Do the math.
I count at least 6 others with a higher Fargo Rating.
Can you explain why they wouldn’t also be slight favorites against Donny?"
Sure. They would all be underdogs against Siming too. Do the math.
Irregardless of the Fargo Rating one must take into consideration that Ms. Chen is no free range player.
In her country she has the support of the state in her career. Donny on the other hand is a working schlep.
Now let's take a guy like Donny and suppose he never had to work a day in his life. One would think in this scenario that Donny would play much better than he plays now.
Given that the Fargo Rating denotes that Ms. Chen is supposed to beat Donny it's hard to say what this match proves in the gender debate.
I believe Derby City allows women to compete and they have not done that well there.
When I went to DC in 2008 Allison Fisher was in attendance.
In her country she has the support of the state in her career. Donny on the other hand is a working schlep.
Now let's take a guy like Donny and suppose he never had to work a day in his life. One would think in this scenario that Donny would play much better than he plays now.
Given that the Fargo Rating denotes that Ms. Chen is supposed to beat Donny it's hard to say what this match proves in the gender debate.
I believe Derby City allows women to compete and they have not done that well there.
When I went to DC in 2008 Allison Fisher was in attendance.
It was an interesting and fun match to watch. There were some great shots and some shots that I'm sure that both players would like to have back.
I'm all for matches between men/women pro's, especially one's where both people conduct themselves as professionals regardless of the outcome. Kudo's to both for the match, entertainment and conduct they showed.
I'm all for matches between men/women pro's, especially one's where both people conduct themselves as professionals regardless of the outcome. Kudo's to both for the match, entertainment and conduct they showed.
2 women (minimum) finished in the top 20 at the DCC 9 Ball- First was Sarah Rousey @20 th at Exec W and then im 90% certain another female finished higher 5-6 years later. Just cant remember who. Seeing as the field probably has averaged 3% female over the years-not all that bad.
I have a lot of faith in FargoRate including across the sexes. It’s definitely got the ballpark right. The Wilkie match showed what we already know, strong players can beat other strong players in any given set. The Mills match showed she can hang. Probably not dominate.
I would love to see her match up higher, e.g. Melling, Morris, Hatch, Immonen, Deuel, Archer, Hohmann, VanDenBerg, etc. I could see her doing well in many of those matches where neither is favorite on paper. Her rating is also in the ballpark of Sky’s and I have a feeling that’s not right. Perhaps his rating lags behind the level of play he’s recently achieved. But I see him giving her a lot more trouble than the ratings suggest. But I see him giving those same players I listed trouble. So that’s probably more on him than her or Fargo.
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I would love to see her match up higher, e.g. Melling, Morris, Hatch, Immonen, Deuel, Archer, Hohmann, VanDenBerg, etc. I could see her doing well in many of those matches where neither is favorite on paper. Her rating is also in the ballpark of Sky’s and I have a feeling that’s not right. Perhaps his rating lags behind the level of play he’s recently achieved. But I see him giving her a lot more trouble than the ratings suggest. But I see him giving those same players I listed trouble. So that’s probably more on him than her or Fargo.
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