14.1 Championships in New Brunswick, NJ

Vahmurka

...and I get all da rolls
Silver Member
Our 14.1 scoresheet:
14scoresheetux2.jpg


Under "Points" we write the number of balls on the table prior to the player's inning start. And before every break shot during the game. Therefore it is never above 15. Under "-/+" we write either points received or deducted (in case of a foul). "Total" is intended for a player's total amount of points.

I filled the sheet to give an example:
Player A starts with a scratch, penalized by a point. B runs 2 and misses, 2 in his Total column. We count the balls remaining on the table, get 13 and write it down to A's "Points". A runs 3 and misses, 3 to his -/+, 2 Total. Count the balls on the table again, 10. B misses and his Total remains unchanged. 10 balls at A's service now, he runs 3. Which is added to previous Total 2, equals 5. B runs 5 balls (of 7 remaining when he gets to the table) and leaves 2 for A. A makes 1 and is ready to break the rack. 15 balls on the table. And A shifts to second gear ;) and runs the rack. Prior to another break he writes 15 again. And runs another one! Adds Total each time, now being 34. Writes 15 again before next break and... misses a break ball. Player B approaching the table now has 15 balls to start his 4th inning of the match, and so on.
We can see player has a run of 28 (34-6), total 34 points scored in 5 innings (6,8 points average). It only could be hard to count innings right because you have to identify continuous runs - but we have EPBF statisticians for this, who else needs to know an average :D

But in general this way is easy and reliable :)
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Vahmurka said:
... But in general this way is easy and reliable :)
It's at least different.

Suppose you start with 10 balls on the table and make three balls and foul on your fourth shot. How is that score indicated? It must be with a +2, but the number of balls on the table goes from 10 to 7, not 10 to 8 for the start of your opponent's inning. So, there seems to be no clear indication on the score sheet of when a foul occurs. It is very important to indicate on a 14.1 scoresheet when a foul has occurred.
 

mjantti

Enjoying life
Silver Member
Vahmurka, there were two different scoresheets used in the EPC. I personally didn't understand the sheet with the "+/-" thing at all. I didn't know what to put on "points" to start with. I've always used the other scoresheet earlier when I had to do the scorekeeping. And with your example, you messed up the number of innings adding a new rack for each inning (numbered lines). The other official scoresheet had "table" - "points" - "total" which is more clear to me, because that's the system I've learnt and used. The only "problem" in that lies in the terminology, you can't have more than 15 balls at the "table" but the scoring is done that way in any case. And during EPC, there were separate scorekeepers on each table to write down the scoresheet and use the scoringboard on the laptop which was connected to the live scoring on the EPC site. We refs had to occasionally replace a scorekeeper when he/she was late/absent.

I noticed also, that your example of a scoresheet was given to the women's matches and my example of a scoresheet was given to the men's matches. I don't know why. Probably they didn't expect women to run more than one rack :)

To Steve: ok, with beads you can have the run marked separately. It's just that I've travelled around Europe quite a lot and I've never seen beads used in any of the pool halls here :)
 

mjantti

Enjoying life
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
It's at least different.

Suppose you start with 10 balls on the table and make three balls and foul on your fourth shot. How is that score indicated? It must be with a +2, but the number of balls on the table goes from 10 to 7, not 10 to 8 for the start of your opponent's inning. So, there seems to be no clear indication on the score sheet of when a foul occurs. It is very important to indicate on a 14.1 scoresheet when a foul has occurred.

If you start with 10 on "table" and run 3 and foul on your shot, I always put "3-1" on the "points" part indicating that the inning ended with a foul and the total run was 2. The upcoming opponent now starts with 7 on "table" and if the scoresheet is checked, there is no contradiction there which would be the case if the first player would have just "2" in his "points" column instead of "3-1".
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
mjantti said:
If you start with 10 on "table" and run 3 and foul on your shot, I always put "3-1" on the "points" part indicating that the inning ended with a foul and the total run was 2. ...
The US system also works. The upshot of all of this discussion is that the WC 14.1 organizers will need to train whoever will be keeping score with whatever sheets are provided. No matter which sheets are used, someone will be confused.
 

Vahmurka

...and I get all da rolls
Silver Member
mjantti said:
If you start with 10 on "table" and run 3 and foul on your shot, I always put "3-1" on the "points" part indicating that the inning ended with a foul and the total run was 2.
exactly
Bob Jewett said:
The upshot of all of this discussion is that the WC 14.1 organizers will need to train whoever will be keeping score with whatever sheets are provided.
That's right, Bob!
 

mjantti

Enjoying life
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
The US system also works. The upshot of all of this discussion is that the WC 14.1 organizers will need to train whoever will be keeping score with whatever sheets are provided. No matter which sheets are used, someone will be confused.

Bob makes a valid point here. The real purpose of this conversation is to make players and officials realize that 14.1 scoring systems are not uniform all around the world, which of course they should be. One of the reasons for this is the lack of 14.1 tournaments. I hope that changes too.
 

Voodoo Daddy

One Pocket 101
If Steve Lipsky is playing this year...I'll make the trip. Total class act he is.

Voodoo~~~One Pocket Junkie but has been known to slap a 60 together
 

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
Well planning for the waves of 14.1 tournaments a solid infratructure accomodating international players will require a system evolved from current standards.

This includes a digital scoring system. Hook up a labtop have wireless devices at each table. Then you can centralize display witha main scoreboard. The reasoning being why should the players be distracated. Its the fans that need to see it more. The solution does not solve the counting problem what it does is make the tournament have an updated look.

Wired devices look sloppy and wiring is a mess. If you need someone to cook up the wireless device that will cost a fee.

If your willing to work on the FM/AM band pick up a CB radio and just phone it in. A main scoreboard was lacking at the 14.1 Jersey 06. Even text msg would suffice.

Adopt technology. Once you get used to the system then improvements to other areas are convenient are a simple computer command away.

Paper controls not so hot due to delay in communications.

At the DCC 06 the tech solution was not so hot, since they had projector issues. And they didnt have dummy terminals available for players(fans) to search for their match and time.

My bet is some of the pool tourney workers aren't fans of technology which is seen in the implementation.
 
Last edited:
Top