Build a champion in a month or 2. Is this possible?

genomachino · Nov 12, 2012

There are many players here on AZ that have been through many different situations over the years.

I'm taking a player that I worked with about 2 1/2 years ago and having him come on the road with me. He's taken some road trips himself but I don't think they were very successful.

His game jumped allot from AA player to Master player shortly after I worked with him. But since then he just stayed at kind of the same level. Not a top master player but about the middle of the field.

I'm going to teach him how to eat, sleep, exercise and survive on the road. Share every aspect of my road experience 24/7. On the job training.
And work some more to refine his pool skills so he can compete with anyone. Capable of beating anyone in the world in a race to 9 to 15.

I think this can be done. He has the desire, now I will see if he has the drive.

I'm looking for input from players that have been through this before.

Do you think this can be done. Why or why not? :idea2:

Lock N Load · Nov 12, 2012

genomachino said:
There are many players here on AZ that have been through many different situations over the years.

I'm taking a player that I worked with about 2 1/2 years ago and having him come on the road with me. He's taken some road trips himself but I don't think they were very successful.

His game jumped allot from AA player to Master player shortly after I worked with him. But since then he just stayed at kind of the same level. Not a top master player but about the middle of the field.

I'm going to teach him how to eat, sleep, exercise and survive on the road. Share every aspect of my road experience 24/7. On the job training.
And work some more to refine his pool skills so he can compete with anyone. Capable of beating anyone in the world in a race to 9 to 15.

I think this can be done. He has the desire, now I will see if he has the drive.

I'm looking for input from players that have been through this before.

Do you think this can be done. Why or why not? :idea2:

Hello Geno,
First of all I hope this person really appreciates what you are about to do for them! Second, I am proud of you for what you are about to do with this person.
Now about your questions! I think it can be done and will work, if the player is really going to pay attention to what you are teaching him. And he is willing to adapt to what is going on right now with you and him/her. The person must devote real time to hearing and watching what is going on between you two during lessons. And the one thing I hate when I am giving pool lessons is, I know that, when you are telling them how to do something on the pool table. If they know already or what they were doing is working they do not need you to teach them anything!!! Good luck, Geno!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

real bartram · Nov 12, 2012

genomachino said:
There are many players here on AZ that have been through many different situations over the years.

I'm taking a player that I worked with about 2 1/2 years ago and having him come on the road with me. He's taken some road trips himself but I don't think they were very successful.

His game jumped allot from AA player to Master player shortly after I worked with him. But since then he just stayed at kind of the same level. Not a top master player but about the middle of the field.

I'm going to teach him how to eat, sleep, exercise and survive on the road. Share every aspect of my road experience 24/7. On the job training.
And work some more to refine his pool skills so he can compete with anyone. Capable of beating anyone in the world in a race to 9 to 15.

I think this can be done. He has the desire, now I will see if he has the drive.

I'm looking for input from players that have been through this before.

Do you think this can be done. Why or why not? :idea2:

the thread says a month or 2.
i dont think so.

JB Cases · Nov 12, 2012

genomachino said:
There are many players here on AZ that have been through many different situations over the years.

I'm taking a player that I worked with about 2 1/2 years ago and having him come on the road with me. He's taken some road trips himself but I don't think they were very successful.

His game jumped allot from AA player to Master player shortly after I worked with him. But since then he just stayed at kind of the same level. Not a top master player but about the middle of the field.

I'm going to teach him how to eat, sleep, exercise and survive on the road. Share every aspect of my road experience 24/7. On the job training.
And work some more to refine his pool skills so he can compete with anyone. Capable of beating anyone in the world in a race to 9 to 15.

I think this can be done. He has the desire, now I will see if he has the drive.

I'm looking for input from players that have been through this before.

Do you think this can be done. Why or why not? :idea2:

My advice is don't ask for advice. Follow your own inner guide and trust your experience.

As to your question of being able to build him into a championship caliber player able to fade the heat in 2 months (as we often see in billiards fiction and movies) I would say no. And the reason I say no is because it's too much ask to put a player under the type of pressure that molds a champion in a two month period. There is so much to deal with on the road with expectation being a big part of it. Learning to fade all sorts of situations and attitudes and tables is not something that can be done in two months. By that I mean starting from NOW with no experience against champions and being ready to face Shane in two months is asking a lot.

But as I said, don't ask us. Just do it and see where it ends up. I look forward to reading about your adventures and hope for the best for both of you. This is a dream many of us players wish we could pursue so we will have to live it through you and your protege.

The Renfro · Nov 12, 2012

All I can say is good luck Gene and I hope he appreciates your efforts... If it's not working out I should have a huge hole in my schedule after Derby so you can just leave him at the Horseshoe and I'll hop in the van LOL...

I have to assume that since you said 2 months that Derby is the trial by fire.... I think I can offer some help when you arrive as far the break goes at least... Should have the break camp full in Indiana if anything at all works out.......

CJ Wiley · Nov 12, 2012

I'm not saying this isn't "possible", I am saying it isn't probable.

genomachino said:
There are many players here on AZ that have been through many different situations over the years.

I'm taking a player that I worked with about 2 1/2 years ago and having him come on the road with me. He's taken some road trips himself but I don't think they were very successful.

His game jumped allot from AA player to Master player shortly after I worked with him. But since then he just stayed at kind of the same level. Not a top master player but about the middle of the field.

I'm going to teach him how to eat, sleep, exercise and survive on the road. Share every aspect of my road experience 24/7. On the job training.
And work some more to refine his pool skills so he can compete with anyone. Capable of beating anyone in the world in a race to 9 to 15.

I think this can be done. He has the desire, now I will see if he has the drive.

I'm looking for input from players that have been through this before.

Do you think this can be done. Why or why not? :idea2:

There's a lot of us that developed and "hardened" on the road through constantly gambling and "eating, drinking, breathing pool".

The problem is the "capable of beating anyone in the world" addition to your thread. I'm not saying this isn't "possible", I am saying it isn't probable.

You pretty much have to compete regularly with the "worlds best" to actually be able to beat them. From what I've seen, that level of player isn't readily available to gamble like they were 20 years ago. imho

If you think he can really get to that level I would offer my assistance in "fine tuning" him for that type of competition. No strings, free of charge.:groucho:

backplaying · Nov 12, 2012

Better than a AA player would be Benny Conway Jr's
speed or better right? I carried a 15 year old Jimmy Wells on the road and with his monster ego it was a nightmare. He only wanted to play the best players around, and when gambling not a very smart way of doing things. A big advantage to being a tournament player is getting to play good players all the time. If you throw in some good gambling matches he should get in top form since he already shows natural ability to play the speed he does now.

CJ Wiley · Nov 12, 2012

.becoming a great player these days probably means going out of the country

backplaying said:
Better than a AA player would be Benny Conway Jr's
speed or better right? I carried a 15 year old Jimmy Wells on the road and with his monster ego it was a nightmare. He only wanted to play the best players around, and when gambling not a very smart way of doing things. A big advantage to being a tournament player is getting to play good players all the time. If you throw in some good gambling matches he should get in top form since he already shows natural ability to play the speed he does now.

The problem is there's not many real "world class" tournaments on challenging equipment.

I would say there's only about 7 or 8 a year right now. I wish there was one a week for 6 or 7 weeks, it might be worth going out and trying to "get in stroke".

However.......becoming a great player these days probably means going out of the country on a regular basis. If I was trying to get back to my top speed I'd go to the Philipines for a month or two.

That's really the only place I could play top notch players for a reasonable amount every day. Take him to the Philipines, Geno, that's your best bet.:wink:

Ratta · Nov 12, 2012

CJ Wiley said:
The problem is there's not many real "world class" tournaments on challenging equipment.

I would say there's only about 7 or 8 a year right now. I wish there was one a week for 6 or 7 weeks, it might be worth going out and trying to "get in stroke".

However.......becoming a great player these days probably means going out of the country on a regular basis. If I was trying to get back to my top speed I'd go to the Philipines for a month or two.

That's really the only place I could play top notch players for a reasonable amount every day. Take him to the Philipines, Geno, that's your best bet.:wink:

Very good advice!

peppersauce · Nov 12, 2012

..........

naji · Nov 12, 2012

genomachino said:
There are many players here on AZ that have been through many different situations over the years.

I'm taking a player that I worked with about 2 1/2 years ago and having him come on the road with me. He's taken some road trips himself but I don't think they were very successful.

His game jumped allot from AA player to Master player shortly after I worked with him. But since then he just stayed at kind of the same level. Not a top master player but about the middle of the field.

I'm going to teach him how to eat, sleep, exercise and survive on the road. Share every aspect of my road experience 24/7. On the job training.
And work some more to refine his pool skills so he can compete with anyone. Capable of beating anyone in the world in a race to 9 to 15.

I think this can be done. He has the desire, now I will see if he has the drive.

I'm looking for input from players that have been through this before.

Do you think this can be done. Why or why not? :idea2:

Not sure if you saying money road trip or tournaments, i would get his confidence boost in 10 top tourneys 1st once he starts beating top pros he is ready; i know his identity will be reviled and get ready for a handy cap system. Hope he is lucky too.

King T · Nov 12, 2012

Thats tuff to prove

I think CJ makes a very good point..., there isnt enough good players that will get up and play anybody that walks thru the door anymore. Down here In Houston a AA player wont get a look.

As CJ says, got to go to the Philippines, by the time he gets back, you'll know what he's got.

genomachino · Nov 12, 2012

Need to clarify a little..........

The on the road action has really changed from years back when CJ was roaming the world as was I. It's really hard to find good bonified action and survive on the road just gambling.

Right now this young man has most of the tools. I've seen it. He just needs to put it all together. learn how to live on the road. Take care of himself as not to get burnt out. And definitely learn how to manage his money or our money.

Because when your on the road with someone it becomes our money. Not just his or mine.

We'll be playing in allot of tournaments. I will be teaching him the discipline it takes to get to the end. How to pace yourself and get to the finish line.

I'm not starting with a raw product here. He's playing pretty good already so that is not a big part of it.

After a couple of months of being on the road he really won't need me anymore if he listens and learns. He's a good kid and humble. Otherwise I wouldn't do this. Kind of like if i took my own son on the road.

And there is tons of action right here in the USA. $20 sets. $50 or $100. You just can't run around trying to bet $1000 or $2000 all the time. trying to bust the bank or get busted. He just needs to keep playing all the time. While I'm giving lessons he will be playing someone nomatter for how much.

Then there is the, What could I have done different to prepare for this and play better? After a few times of seeing the results with better health and fitness it won't take long to make it a habit.

I really believe that it is possible to build a tough player from the ground up. I'm kind of misleading by saying 2 months because he has done allot of seasoning on his own already. I know he already knows some of the mistakes a person can make on the road. He's taken some road trips on his own and with other people.

It's going to be fun. There is no blueprint to follow here, just like for me the last 6 months on the road.

The worst that can happen is he can go home and I can keep going. No big deal.

But this will be a real life experience and I'm going to cherish every minute of it.

So many players that have been on the road have had so many great memories. I'm still on the road making new memories.

It don't get any better than this.

But remember when you play my man in a tournament that you probably better play good. He will have all his ducks in a row. And he will beat you if your not on top of your game.........especially after 2 months on the road.

Just having fun...

Two men a van and the road//////////////////////////////////////////////

sfleinen · Nov 12, 2012

I think the problem here is geno's use of the word "build" when he says "build a champion."

What's the first thing that pops into your head when you hear the word "build"? Of making something from nothing, right? Of taking bricks, plywood, 2x4s, and nails, and assembling them into a house -- that's what I think of when I hear someone use the word "build" -- especially in the phrase "build a champion."

The problem here, once again, is a marketing trick. Geno's making you *think* the impossible -- that he's going to take a player that can't play at all and "build" a champion in 2 months, even though his couching verbiage goes on to say that's not the case at all.

So, let's dispense with the marketing spiel, and lay it out:

1. "Build" a champion -- as everyone's definition of "build" allows -- in 2 months? IMPOSSIBLE.

2. However, to take an already extremely strong player, and *coach* them -- give them what they need, what they've been overlooking, or otherwise those skills to completely round his/her game -- I say that's very possible.

The problem here is marketing semantics. "Build" is a misnomer. "Coach" is a better word, because geno's not "building" anything -- that structure has already been built. He's just adding siding to the already-built house.

And, to even *think* that a single widget like "perfect aim" will "build" a champion borders on the bizarre.

-Sean

JB Cases · Nov 12, 2012

peppersauce said:
In a month or two...I don't know. The most talented player I've ever personally been around picked up a cue for the first time at thirteen and six or seven months later was playing pro speed and went on to win five or six junior national titles. I would think if a person had that kind of talent AND the drive to do something with it one or two months might be possible...maybe.

Who is this person that went from never holding a cue to pro speed in 7 months? I would be interested in some more details on this story.

JB Cases · Nov 12, 2012

sfleinen said:
I think the problem here is geno's use of the word "build" when he says "build a champion."

What's the first thing that pops into your head when you hear the word "build"? Of making something from nothing, right? Of taking bricks, plywood, 2x4s, and nails, and assembling them into a house -- that's what I think of when I hear someone use the word "build" -- especially in the phrase "build a champion."

The problem here, once again, is a marketing trick. Geno's making you *think* the impossible -- that he's going to take a player that can't play at all and "build" a champion in 2 months, even though his couching verbiage goes on to say that's not the case at all.

So, let's dispense with the marketing spiel, and lay it out:

1. "Build" a champion -- as everyone's definition of "build" allows -- in 2 months? IMPOSSIBLE.

2. However, to take an already extremely strong player, and *coach* them -- give them what they need, what they've been overlooking, or otherwise those skills to completely round his/her game -- I say that's very possible.

The problem here is marketing semantics. "Build" is a misnomer. "Coach" is a better word, because geno's not "building" anything -- that structure has already been built. He's just adding siding to the already-built house.

And, to even *think* that a single widget like "perfect aim" will "build" a champion borders on the bizarre.

-Sean

To be fair I don't think Gene is talking about Perfect Aim being the reason that he expects this player to become championship caliber. I read into it that Gene wants to impart other lessons on how to survive on the road, how to match up, how to manage money, and so on. I would bet that they have already covered the "Perfect Aim" part of the lesson.

david(tx) · Nov 12, 2012

genomachino said:
The on the road action has really changed from years back when CJ was roaming the world as was I. It's really hard to find good bonified action and survive on the road just gambling.

Right now this young man has most of the tools. I've seen it. He just needs to put it all together. learn how to live on the road. Take care of himself as not to get burnt out. And definitely learn how to manage his money or our money.

Because when your on the road with someone it becomes our money. Not just his or mine.

We'll be playing in allot of tournaments. I will be teaching him the discipline it takes to get to the end. How to pace yourself and get to the finish line.

I'm not starting with a raw product here. He's playing pretty good already so that is not a big part of it.

After a couple of months of being on the road he really won't need me anymore if he listens and learns. He's a good kid and humble. Otherwise I wouldn't do this. Kind of like if i took my own son on the road.

And there is tons of action right here in the USA. $20 sets. $50 or $100. You just can't run around trying to bet $1000 or $2000 all the time. trying to bust the bank or get busted. He just needs to keep playing all the time. While I'm giving lessons he will be playing someone nomatter for how much.

Then there is the, What could I have done different to prepare for this and play better? After a few times of seeing the results with better health and fitness it won't take long to make it a habit.

I really believe that it is possible to build a tough player from the ground up. I'm kind of misleading by saying 2 months because he has done allot of seasoning on his own already. I know he already knows some of the mistakes a person can make on the road. He's taken some road trips on his own and wirth other people.

It's going to be fun. There is no blueprint to follow here, just like for me the last 6 months on the road.

The worst that can happen is he can go home and I can keep going. No big deal.

But this will be a real life experience and I'm going to cherish every minute of it.

So many players that have been on the road have had so many great memories. I'm still on the road making new memories.

It don't get any better than this.

But remember when you play my man in a tournament that you probably better play good. He will have all his ducks in a row. And he will beat you if your not on top of your game.........especially after 2 months on the road.

Just having fun...

Two men a van and the road//////////////////////////////////////////////

Let me ask you a serious question Gene , do you still enjoy the game , or games ?Is it just a business , or is it something you would do business or not ?Would you still play if you weren't as good at it as you are ? Do you enjoy watching good players play when you aren't playing yourself ?Is your protege living in Florida ?

Glad your going to help learn to pace himself and not get burned out , that is a good lesson to learn in whatever your doing , not just pool.

sfleinen · Nov 12, 2012

JB Cases said:
To be fair I don't think Gene is talking about Perfect Aim being the reason that he expects this player to become championship caliber. I read into it that Gene wants to impart other lessons on how to survive on the road, how to match up, how to manage money, and so on. I would bet that they have already covered the "Perfect Aim" part of the lesson.

I know that, John -- hence the "couching verbiage" reference in my post, which describes all those things. But remember, this is his widget, and in the past, he'd made no bones about it being the tool that hammers everything that looks like a nail (pool instruction wise).

All those other things -- surviving on the road, et al. -- are things learned from and with YEARS of experience. Most of them have to have already been incorporated into the "building" of the house. To touch them up, or add siding to give the final appearance of the house in 2 months -- yes, I say that's possible.

-Sean

BasementDweller · Nov 12, 2012

genomachino said:
...
And there is tons of action right here in the USA. $20 sets. $50 or $100. You just can't run around trying to bet $1000 or $2000 all the time. trying to bust the bank or get busted. He just needs to keep playing all the time. While I'm giving lessons he will be playing someone nomatter for how much.
...

That part is really interesting to me.

I've always thought that good players can actually make a decent amount of money playing the cheap sets. The problem with this approach is it takes waaaaaay more discipline. The sort of discipline that most great players aren't willing to accept. It's sort of like the card counters at blackjack. You just have to be methodical.

The opposite is the player that constantly goes for the big score, and then when they do make the score, they end up losing it all at the poker table. Only to be right back where they started.

I know guys that while they may not have made a living playing the cheap sets, they have certainly came out way ahead. It can be a pretty good part time gig if you will.

With this approach, you never walk away from a game because it's "not worth your time". Instead you go about building a list of repeat customers. That's what I've seen anyways.

genomachino · Nov 12, 2012

It's not Jesse Engle.

david(tx) said:
Let me ask you a serious question Gene , do you still enjoy the game , or games ?Is it just a business , or is it something you would do business or not ?Would you still play if you weren't as good at it as you are ? Do you enjoy watching good players play when you aren't playing yourself ?Is your protege living in Florida ?

Glad your going to help learn to pace himself and not get burned out , that is a good lesson to learn in whatever your doing , not just pool.

Jesse is playing very good. He called me about a month ago and asked me about the food. I also told him he needs to get on an excersize program.

He's got his own thing going on right now. If jesse did head out with me for a couple of months it would be great for his pool game.

There is so much to learn. I'm still learning. But experience is a great teacher. And it can be taught to a smart person. jesse is one of those.

Jesse and myself are good friends and we played with each other and competed in tournaments in Minneapolis for about 2 years before anyone even heard of Jesse Engle.

Real good person too.

Build a champion in a month or 2. Is this possible?

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