Tips on shooting combos

Three.Two.N.D. · Aug 13, 2015

Hello all,

Asking help on shooting combos. For some reason I always have trouble making them. I usually just do connect the dots. Point cue to find spot to make ball, then find spot on 1st ball to hit spot on 2nd ball, and finally aim cue ball for that spot. (hope that makes sense) Outside of real close ones I always miss. Sure I am missing something just dont know what. Like induced spin/throw that I am not compensating for, is it better to hit cue ball with draw/follow, etc. Asking for any tips and/or systems to take to table and practice. Thanks in advance.

Straightpool_99 · Aug 13, 2015

I'm not really an expert on combos, but you asked about follow or draw. Shooting with maximum draw, you transfer top spin to the first object ball, which is not always what you want, but then again many players shoot more accurately with a little bit of draw, simply because they get a better view of the cue ball. I always pick a spot on the rail that I aim my first object ball into and I haven't found anything that works better yet.

Colonel · Aug 13, 2015

I use center ball and a firm stroke. I've seen a lot missed by others because their stroke is tentative on these, generally due to a lack of confidence in the shot.

bbb · Aug 13, 2015

sometimes instead of aiming at the contact point on the 2nd ball
...
ill determine the line from the first ball to make the second ball and extend that line to a diamond on the rail (in this case it is actually the diamond itself but if could be a spot between the diamonds..i hope you follow that )
...
and the i line up to hit the first ball to the spot on the rail and forget about the 2nd ball
View attachment 393301

DaveM · Aug 13, 2015

Never liked combos much. Would rather carom or kick unless the balls were close to each other or near a pocket. That being said I'm going to try what the other posters suggested and run a line through to a rail. Never tried that, it looks interesting.

jjr183 · Aug 13, 2015

The most common mistake I see people making is when they shoot what I call a zig-zag combo where the second ball is cut in the opposite direction of the intermediate ball and they miss it to the undercut side of the pocket. This is normally because they are not taking into account that the first ball is going to pick up spin from the cue ball that will produce collision induced throw on the second ball pushing it past the pocket.

Two ways to account for this is to either over cut the intermediate ball or to put enough outside spin on the cue ball to overcome this effect. In my opinion the second option should only be done if you cannot see enough of the edge of the ball to do the first.

ktrepal85 · Aug 13, 2015

Since most combos that you'll attempt are close to the pocket I don't think throw will come into play much. However, if both balls are frozen together throw has a huge effect.

I aim combos by picking a point on the rail as described above and then I see how much I must adjust my aim to go from the pocket to the point on the rail.

measureman · Aug 13, 2015

Stand more upright then normal. It makes it easier to see the correct angle for the first ball to hit the second ball.

mikepage · Aug 13, 2015

Here is a tip about common combos--i.e., ones that are easy to aim.

It is very important to control both the cueball (CB) AND the first object ball (FOB) in a combo.

Each of those balls goes off after contact at a speed that depends on IT'S cut angle. That is, there are two cut angles in the shot. The kiss of death for controlling the balls is for those two angles to be close to one another.

SO, if you have an easy combo with both object balls near the rail aimed straight into the pocket, DO NOT play shape to be near straight in on the combo. Instead give yourself a half-ball-hit on the FOB.

DAVE_M · Aug 13, 2015

Ghost ball.

Even people that say they don't use ghost ball aiming, use ghost ball aiming for combination shots.

True story.

bbb · Aug 13, 2015

mikepage said:
Here is a tip about common combos--i.e., ones that are easy to aim.

It is very important to control both the cueball (CB) AND the first object ball (FOB) in a combo.

Each of those balls goes off after contact at a speed that depends on IT'S cut angle. That is, there are two cut angles in the shot. The kiss of death for controlling the balls is for those two angles to be close to one another.

SO, if you have an easy combo with both object balls near the rail aimed straight into the pocket, DO NOT play shape to be near straight in on the combo. Instead give yourself a half-ball-hit on the FOB.

i dont understand this completely...:embarrassed2:
in a straight in combo on the rail as per your example if you are straight in on the first ball the first ball stays on line and so does the cue ball (example of the 2 angles being the same)
with the half ball hit
the first ball stays near where the 2nd ball was due to the full hit
but the cue ball goes up table
wouldnt equal cut angle give equal distance and be easier to predict??

Neil · Aug 13, 2015

#1. You first off have to be able to hit the ob accurately down the line you choose. If you can't reliably do that, combos will be hit and miss no matter how you aim them.

#2. What I do, and it has worked quite well for me, is to recognize that most feasible combos are nothing more than a 1/2 ball hit, a 1/4 ball hit, a 1/8th ball hit, or dead straight of the first ob to the second ob. Makes aiming them much easier.

mikepage · Aug 13, 2015

bbb said:
i dont understand this completely...:embarrassed2:
in a straight in combo on the rail as per your example if you are straight in on the first ball the first ball stays on line and so does the cue ball (example of the 2 angles being the same)

This is exactly the mistake many people make. If you don't hit it perfectly the FOB drifts away from the rail and with the CB still near the rail you are screwed. If you had the half-ball-hit angle, on the other hand, CB can come out near the center of the table for example and you are OK.

If you think about it, we have all many times seen a simple straight combo near the long rail that is hit straight on only to find the FOB a few inches from the pocket near the short rail.

robertod · Aug 13, 2015

jjr183 said:
The most common mistake I see people making is when they shoot what I call a zig-zag combo where the second ball is cut in the opposite direction of the intermediate ball and they miss it to the undercut side of the pocket. This is normally because they are not taking into account that the first ball is going to pick up spin from the cue ball that will produce collision induced throw on the second ball pushing it past the pocket.

Two ways to account for this is to either over cut the intermediate ball or to put enough outside spin on the cue ball to overcome this effect. In my opinion the second option should only be done if you cannot see enough of the edge of the ball to do the first.

I really like this explanation on the "zigzag shots" especially if there some distance involved.:thumbup:

TATE · Aug 13, 2015

Three.Two.N.D. said:
Hello all,

Asking help on shooting combos. For some reason I always have trouble making them. I usually just do connect the dots. Point cue to find spot to make ball, then find spot on 1st ball to hit spot on 2nd ball, and finally aim cue ball for that spot. (hope that makes sense) Outside of real close ones I always miss. Sure I am missing something just dont know what. Like induced spin/throw that I am not compensating for, is it better to hit cue ball with draw/follow, etc. Asking for any tips and/or systems to take to table and practice. Thanks in advance.

Combo's look easy but many are very difficult and it's important to know the difference. Except for the easiest combo's, they're best avoided. In rotation games they usually present a very easy safety because you can often shoot the OB past the use the 2nd ball to hide behind. This is very effective.

That being said, practicing shooting standard combo's a lot helps you get the hang of them.

Hits 'em Hard · Aug 13, 2015

Three.Two.N.D. said:
Hello all,

Asking help on shooting combos. For some reason I always have trouble making them. I usually just do connect the dots. Point cue to find spot to make ball, then find spot on 1st ball to hit spot on 2nd ball, and finally aim cue ball for that spot. (hope that makes sense) Outside of real close ones I always miss. Sure I am missing something just dont know what. Like induced spin/throw that I am not compensating for, is it better to hit cue ball with draw/follow, etc. Asking for any tips and/or systems to take to table and practice. Thanks in advance.

Shooting a combo is no more difficult than a standard shot. The difference is you've trained yourself to need a pocket to aim at. With combos you're not aiming at the pocket, so you assume they're more difficult. If you can find a table with slightly larger than 4 1/2" pockets, put a ball locked to one side of the pocket. Now take another ball and try and pocket it past the other ball. If you can't reliably make it past the other ball, then you won't be able to reliably make combos.

Patrick Johnson · Aug 13, 2015

Neil said:
#1. You first off have to be able to hit the ob accurately down the line you choose. If you can't reliably do that, combos will be hit and miss no matter how you aim them.

#2. What I do, and it has worked quite well for me, is to recognize that most feasible combos are nothing more than a 1/2 ball hit, a 1/4 ball hit, a 1/8th ball hit, or dead straight of the first ob to the second ob. Makes aiming them much easier.

OFF TOPIC: The extreme precision needed for combos makes this an excellent proof that fractional aiming is approximate, adjusted consciously or subconsciously to the actual angle. (This isn't a criticism of fractional aiming, just a note about it.)

pj
chgo

Neil · Aug 13, 2015

Patrick Johnson said:
OFF TOPIC: The extreme precision needed for combos makes this an excellent proof that fractional aiming is approximate, adjusted consciously or subconsciously to the actual angle. (This isn't a criticism of fractional aiming, just a note about it.)

pj
chgo

Yes, fractional aiming does have some subconscious adjustment to it. However, not always. The reason being is the size of the pockets, and the margin of error one has. Set up some combos and check it out. Of course, one has to actually reliably hit down the line they intend to hit down. So, one can't just shoot the shot, miss, and say it doesn't work. There has to be some way of telling if one actually hit where they were aiming.

An easy test, is just set up a ghost ball for any shot on the table. Then move the cb around the table and see just how often the center or edge of the cb actually lines up to a given margin of error (margin of error being ball still makeable, but not in center of pocket) on the ob half, quarters, or eighths.

bbb · Aug 13, 2015

mikepage said:
This is exactly the mistake many people make. If you don't hit it perfectly the FOB drifts away from the rail and with the CB still near the rail you are screwed. If you had the half-ball-hit angle, on the other hand, CB can come out near the center of the table for example and you are OK.

If you think about it, we have all many times seen a simple straight combo near the long rail that is hit straight on only to find the FOB a few inches from the pocket near the short rail.

thanks for clearing that up....:thumbup:

Patrick Johnson · Aug 13, 2015

Neil said:
Yes, fractional aiming does have some subconscious adjustment to it. However, not always. The reason being is the size of the pockets, and the margin of error one has. Set up some combos and check it out. Of course, one has to actually reliably hit down the line they intend to hit down. So, one can't just shoot the shot, miss, and say it doesn't work. There has to be some way of telling if one actually hit where they were aiming.

An easy test, is just set up a ghost ball for any shot on the table. Then move the cb around the table and see just how often the center or edge of the cb actually lines up to a given margin of error (margin of error being ball still makeable, but not in center of pocket) on the ob half, quarters, or eighths.

[More off-topic stuff]

"Pocket slop" does increase the number of shots that can be made with fractional alignments, but not as much as many think - and it's strongly affected by the distance of the OB to the pocket. Here's a graphic showing how much pocket slop helps with shots of different lengths into a 4.5" corner pocket.

For a spot shot only about 1/4 of the necessary cuts can be made with fractional alignments. Aiming adjustments, conscious or unconscious, must be made for the other 3/4.

Sorry to digress again.

pj
chgo

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