Robin Dreyer- Learning To Be "Vertical" player

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
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Learning how to be a vertical player. Taking a nice conducive angle and making the CB go to a spot in every direction with vertical cue strikes. Take the very highest cue position and then the very lowest draw back position, measure those angles and then drive the CB to a ball width all the way around the first rail with just vertical cue tips on the CB. Once this becomes a routine, Watch Robin's ability to bust up clusters or to get shape any where on the table with just a vertical cue tip on the CB with only speed control. Haven't we always heard that the very top pros only use a dime sized tip control on the CB? This is it and super fun to watch the master.
 
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BC21

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Learning how to be a vertical player. Taking a nice conducive angle and making the CB go to a spot in every direction with vertical cue strikes. Take the very highest cue position and then the very lowest draw back position, measure those angles and then drive the CB to a ball width all the way around the first rail with just vertical cue tips on the CB. Once this becomes a routine, Watch Robin's ability to bust up clusters or to get shape any where on the table with just a vertical cue tip on the CB with only speed control. Haven't we always heard that the very top pros only use a dime sized tip control on the CB? This is it and super fun to watch the master.

This was my point when you were so adamant about the necessity of cheating cut shots to gain an extra degree of CB direction. You just described the reason it isn't necessary -- using only the CB's vertical axis and speed control you can get the cueball just about anywhere on the table, as long as you have an angle. If you're straight in or have a slight angle, that's when shooting left or right of center pocket is usually needed, to create an angle or a better angle to work with.

I believe we're on the same page with this. Cheating the pocket is useful as a limited necessity when it can be done without compromising the likelihood of pocketing the ob.
 
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Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
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This was my point when you were so adamant about the necessity of cheating cut shots to gain an extra degree of CB direction. You just described the reason it isn't necessary -- using only the CB's vertical axis and speed control you can get the cueball just about anywhere on the table, as long as you have an angle. If you're straight in or have a slight angle, that's when shooting left or right of center pocket is usually needed, to create an angle or a better angle to work with.

I believe we're on the same page with this. Cheating the pocket is useful as a limited necessity when it can be done without compromising the likelihood of pocketing the ob.

True enough...
 

Renegade_56

AzB Silver Member
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I can see where a player with only a couple years experience would be quite impressed with the various routes a cue ball can take with various hits on it's vertical axis. I can also see how this is useful, in a situation like say doing drills repeatedly with only a couple of balls on the table at any given time. Most experienced players however, who regularly play games, one pocket, 14.1, snooker, 8 ball, and even 9 ball know that with heavily congested table layouts your options become quite limited very often when limiting ones self to vertical cue ball play. Quite often side spin is not only a nice weapon, but mandatory. Here is a drill for ya, play some 15 ball rotation against the ghost using vertical cue ball only.

Yea I know, Robin Dreyer can do it,,,,,,,, can you?
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
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I can see where a player with only a couple years experience would be quite impressed with the various routes a cue ball can take with various hits on it's vertical axis. I can also see how this is useful, in a situation like say doing drills repeatedly with only a couple of balls on the table at any given time. Most experienced players however, who regularly play games, one pocket, 14.1, snooker, 8 ball, and even 9 ball know that with heavily congested table layouts your options become quite limited very often when limiting ones self to vertical cue ball play. Quite often side spin is not only a nice weapon, but mandatory. Here is a drill for ya, play some 15 ball rotation against the ghost using vertical cue ball only.

Yea I know, Robin Dreyer can do it,,,,,,,, can you?

I started this thread hoping someone would go on out and see Robin Dreyer and take a few lessons. So, I have nothing more to say about it. I've raved about him enough.
 
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bbb

AzB Gold Member
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I can see where a player with only a couple years experience would be quite impressed with the various routes a cue ball can take with various hits on it's vertical axis. I can also see how this is useful, in a situation like say doing drills repeatedly with only a couple of balls on the table at any given time. Most experienced players however, who regularly play games, one pocket, 14.1, snooker, 8 ball, and even 9 ball know that with heavily congested table layouts your options become quite limited very often when limiting ones self to vertical cue ball play. Quite often side spin is not only a nice weapon, but mandatory. Here is a drill for ya, play some 15 ball rotation against the ghost using vertical cue ball only.

Yea I know, Robin Dreyer can do it,,,,,,,, can you?

I started this thread hoping someone would go on out and see Robin Dreyer and take a few lessons. So, I have nothing more to say about it. I've raved about him enough.
dennis
you know i am a robin advocate
but vertical axis wont work in onepocket
and even in 9 ball
the "helping" spin from a half tip off vertical
my pro calls it a "twist"
helps the cue ball get around the rails with less power
less power = better accuracy
this is not in any way to put down robin
let me say again for the record
ROBIN DRYER IS THE BEST INSTRUCTOR IN THE USA IN MY EXPERIENCE "..:thumbup::smile:
 

bbb

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ALSO
often to kick to hit when your opponent played safe you have to use spin
agree??
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
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ALSO
often to kick to hit when your opponent played safe you have to use spin
agree??

Of course, the running spin of the CB adds turbo power to the rail shots and Robin knows all of that. He certainly uses spin for shape, but it's not the requirement of every shot. I had a professional over and we discussed a "ball in jaws" experiment and he hits that ball with a 1/2 ball hit and controls his shape with spin. Robin disagrees and says to hit the ball into the hole using the quadrants, 1,-5, and use the natural tangent diagonally with CCB to get most shape. That's the one I believe in. Most pool players have their own way. I know spin and I use it.
 

bbb

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Of course, the running spin of the CB adds turbo power to the rail shots and Robin knows all of that. He certainly uses spin for shape, but it's not the requirement of every shot. I had a professional over and we discussed a "ball in jaws" experiment and he hits that ball with a 1/2 ball hit and controls his shape with spin. Robin disagrees and says to hit the ball into the hole using the quadrants, 1,-5, and use the natural tangent diagonally with CCB to get most shape. That's the one I believe in. Most pool players have their own way. I know spin and I use it.

for the record
i beleive in the vertical axis approach for many shots that previously i would use spin
robin showed me it (spin )wasnt necessary as much as i thought
also using the "stun line" (tangent )as the basis to adjust the angle off the ball as opposed to the "rolling ball" (30 degree ) line i found to be easier
 

BC21

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for the record
i beleive in the vertical axis approach for many shots that previously i would use spin
robin showed me it (spin )wasnt necessary as much as i thought
also using the "stun line" (tangent )as the basis to adjust the angle off the ball as opposed to the "rolling ball" (30 degree ) line i found to be easier

That's what I like, using the tangent line and moving the CB accordingly to one side of the line or the other, or right on it. I'd say 95% of the time (or more) most players are trying to get perfect position on a ball when all that is really needed is an angle, any angle, that'll move the CB toward the widest position area needed for next shot. A little spin here and there is needed to help reduce throw and to give the CB more speed without having to force it. Extreme spin is a special tool that should only be used sparingly.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
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That's what I like, using the tangent line and moving the CB accordingly to one side of the line or the other, or right on it. I'd say 95% of the time (or more) most players are trying to get perfect position on a ball when all that is really needed is an angle, any angle, that'll move the CB toward the widest position area needed for next shot. A little spin here and there is needed to help reduce throw and to give the CB more speed without having to force it. Extreme spin is a special tool that should only be used sparingly.

I agree with that. My expose of Robin Dreyer was all intended for pool players to give him a call and book the lessons. I can see that is not going to happen. Pool players are stuck in their own format and not willing to change, except for the "aiming" process. One guy will be charging $60 @ hour to attempt to learn his method of "aiming", and I was hoping to convert some of those to go see the guy and get off that stuff.
 

bbb

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That's what I like, using the tangent line and moving the CB accordingly to one side of the line or the other, or right on it. I'd say 95% of the time (or more) most players are trying to get perfect position on a ball when all that is really needed is an angle, any angle, that'll move the CB toward the widest position area needed for next shot. A little spin here and there is needed to help reduce throw and to give the CB more speed without having to force it. Extreme spin is a special tool that should only be used sparingly.

you are preaching to the choir
agree
:)
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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I agree with that. My expose of Robin Dreyer was all intended for pool players to give him a call and book the lessons. I can see that is not going to happen. Pool players are stuck in their own format and not willing to change, except for the "aiming" process. One guy will be charging $60 @ hour to attempt to learn his method of "aiming", and I was hoping to convert some of those to go see the guy and get off that stuff.

I hear ya my friend. Most can't just up and fly to Oregon for a pool lesson any time they want. At least I can't.:frown:
 
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