John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems

PoolSharkAllen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At a recent TAR podcast, two US Open champions expressed some interesting viewpoints about aiming. The podcast link can be found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8KsVm9ePlk&feature=related and the comments on aiming systems goes from 24:15 - 29:15 .

BTW, John Schmidt just won the Predator World 14.1 tournament so perhaps that lends some additional credibility to his comments about aiming systems.

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Shown below is a partial transcript provided by Lou Figueroa of what John and Corey said, leaving out the occasional comments on LD shafts and Corey’s describing how he teaches:

John Schmidt: Well, don’t get me started on aiming systems. I’ll tell you if...

Maybe they work... but nobody’s telling me the one’s that work. Because if they work, first of all you’re not factoring in swerve and deflection. OK, now what if a guy comes up with a delivery system, that’s different. But, aiming’s adorable -- but you still have to deliver -- so you could aim perfect. If those aiming systems worked, well there would just be like four million people who played like Corey. But it’s year after year and it’s still Corey.

So these aiming systems are overrated, they’re a way to sell videos and books and make people pontificate about their own greatness and believe me if it worked, then they’d be out there winning tournaments, but they’re not.

What Stevie Moore doesn’t get is -- Stevie Moore -- you could put a bag over his head and he’d run out. He’s a great player. So he’s playing great in spite of his aiming system, not because of it. I mean, think about it: he’s already a great player. He could aim at the wall and he’s still going to make the ball. And it’s a way to give him comfort and confidence. He’s kind of like tricked himself into thinking ‘this aiming system works.’

(John sets up to demonstrate a shot.) I just can’t see how I’m going to use english here and I’m going to aim bottom right english. So I’m aiming out here -- it’s going to squirt. Well, what aiming system is going to work for that?! It’s only going to work with center ball. And you know, all these guys with their aiming systems can get like weight from me. And I don’t use an aiming system.

Corey Duel: Yeah the one that he’s talking about I haven’t been able to comprehend it yet. It’s something about pivoting the back foot and... I don’t know.

John Schmidt: My piece of advice, if anybody cares to the viewers at home: forget all the aiming systems. Just like when you throw a baseball to first, you just do it. Right? There’s no aiming, you do it, you feel it. It’s same with pool. You get a mental picture and you do it. Aiming systems are the most ridiculous, overrated thing...The pros scoff at that stuff, they’re like, ‘aiming systems, really?!’...

If they would quit spending so much time on line and learning about aiming systems and go hit more balls they’d become better players. There’s no short cut to it. Sitting on AZ Billiards looking for aiming systems isn’t going to get it. It’s like the golf swing guys. They got a thousand videos. But the guy that goes to the driving range till his hands bleed, that’s the good golfer. You can’t watch it online and go, ‘oh, there’s got to be a system for hitting a four iron two hundred yards on the green.’ It’s the same with pool. We’ve hit a million pool balls -- that’s our system. I mean, you’re not going to get good at anything using a system.

I could be wrong, I don’t know if I’m right. I just think aiming systems are crazy. Deflection and swerve is what makes this game so tough. If there was no such thing as that, you know you just hit whatever english, but this thing goes sideways off of your stick. That’s why the game’s so impossible.
 
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8pack

They call me 2 county !
Silver Member
At a recent TAR podcast, two US Open champions expressed some interesting viewpoints about aiming. The podcast link can be found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8KsV...ature=youtu.be and the comments on aiming systems goes from 24:15 - 29:15 .

BTW, John Schmidt just won the Predator World 14.1 tournament so perhaps that lends some additional credibility to his comments about aiming systems.


Did John say he used a aiming system?
Havnt watch it ,but I have seen John go behind the ob and sight it to the pocket.Rite there tells you he is using a system.
 
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Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
Well the interview was great- lot of fun and lot of great comments.
i enjoyed this a lot.

Worth to watch for everyone.
 

PoolSharkAllen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Did John say he used a aiming system?
I have seen John go behind the ob and sight it to the pocket.Rite there tells you he is using a system.

Judging from John's comment that the good golfer is the one on the driving range hitting a million balls until his hands bleed, one could surmise that John is a proponent of HAMB.
 

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
Heard and read not just John on this topic. Fact is that people are always still searching for kind of excuse why they miss balls-- instead of working on the necessary things like getting a repeatable stroke, which enables to send Whitey from A to the planned point B they re searching for the holy gral.

I am for sure someone who likes to get always new knowledge- knowledge is real power. But i m more kind of instructor than a player nowadays. And you can drive a player crazy with too much un-necessary things.
Furthermore i could/can for sure teach several aiming systems-but at least i just explain/describe usualy 2-3 *things*. I know so many guys who re playing for 10-15 and more years who are talking like "i have to find my stroke" or "i have to change something"....but i ve never seen a single guy of those who seriously practiced for themselves.......so no need to discuss about those guys, they will always end in a one-way-street.
Practice makes not perfect- it makes permanent and consistant. And in practice you earn your important self-belief! Always think of the pyramid of failure, the pyramid of fundamentals etc- it s always the same. A perfect and stable basement will make the end-product rockstable!
Additional that no matter which way you choose-- you always have to spend a great amount of table time!

And what is very underestimated, too is what John also said (and i could hug him for that all day long, lol!). That you have to stay with your material/shaft! That is one of the keys, too. Switching between shafts like crazy can ruin your game dramatically and i had a big smile in my face when John said that about him, too.

Strenghten your fundamentals, work hard-and you ll become a better player!

lg
Ingo
 
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PoolSharkAllen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Heard and read not just John on this topic. Fact is that people are always still searching for kind of excuse why they miss balls-- instead of working on the necessary things like getting a repeatable stroke, which enables to send Whitey from A to the planned point B they re searching for the holy gral.

I am for sure someone who likes to get always new knowledge- knowledge is real power. But i m more kind of instructor than a player nowadays. And you can drive a player crazy with too much un-necessary things.
Furthermore i could/can for sure teach several aiming systems-but at least i just explain/describe usualy 2-3 *things*. I know so many guys who re playing for 10-15 and more years who are talking like "i have to find my stroke" or "i have to change something"....but i ve never seen a single guy of those who seriously practiced for themselves.......so no need to discuss about those guys, they will always end in a one-way-street.
Practice makes not perfect- it makes permanent and consistant. And in practice you earn your important self-belief! Always think of the pyramid of failure, the pyramid of fundamentals etc- it s always the same. A perfect and stable basement will make the end-product rockstable!
Additional that no matter which way you choose-- you always have to spend a great amount of table time!

And what is very underestimated, too is what John also said (and i could hug him for that all day long, lol!). That you have to stay with your material/shaft! That is one of the keys, too. Switching between shafts like crazy can ruin your game dramatically and i had a big smile in my face when John said that about him, too.

Strenghten your fundamentals, work hard-and you ll become a better player!

lg
Ingo

You make some excellent points, Ingo, as I agree with the essence of what you're saying.

The more I think about John Schmidt's comments, the more I think that he's not necessarily against aiming systems, per se, but rather he's against the hyperbolic marketing of aiming systems. Consider, for example, John's comment that he thought that "aiming systems are over-rated, that they are a way to sell videos and books and that they're a way for people to pontificate on their own greatness."
 

PoolSharkAllen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Judging from John's comment that the good golfer is the one on the driving range hitting a million balls until his hands bleed, one could surmise that John is a proponent of HAMB.
In the June 2011 Billiards Digest, Dr. Dave wrote:
'Here’s the bottom line: Aiming ain’t easy! If it were, pool would not be as challenging and fun as it is. Please resist the temptation to buy into the “snake-oil” sales pitches common with aiming system “marketing.”

"There ain’t no “silver bullet!” All we can really do is practice, practice, practice, and then practice some more. We can probably all agree that the best “aiming system” of them all is HAMB (“Hit A Million Balls”). It is certainly the most promising to produce good and consistent results.'​
 

8pack

They call me 2 county !
Silver Member
Judging from John's comment that the good golfer is the one on the driving range hitting a million balls until his hands bleed, one could surmise that John is a proponent of HAMB.

I agree with the concept of hitting a million balls or with anything you do in life the more time put in the better you should become.Now comparing golf to pool ,I dont see golfers playing balls off of trees or what evers on a golf corse .Club and ball and a swing ,maybe you can compare it to baseball.:smile:
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At a recent TAR podcast, two US Open champions expressed some interesting viewpoints about aiming. The podcast link can be found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8KsVm9ePlk&feature=related and the comments on aiming systems goes from 24:15 - 29:15 .

BTW, John Schmidt just won the Predator World 14.1 tournament so perhaps that lends some additional credibility to his comments about aiming systems.


I laughed myself silly when I watched the podcast. What John and Corey said about all the various factors that invalidate aiming systems is what I've been saying for 15 years.

There is no way they can work given all the variables :)

Lou Figueroa
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
At a recent TAR podcast, two US Open champions expressed some interesting viewpoints about aiming. The podcast link can be found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8KsVm9ePlk&feature=related and the comments on aiming systems goes from 24:15 - 29:15 .

BTW, John Schmidt just won the Predator World 14.1 tournament so perhaps that lends some additional credibility to his comments about aiming systems.

Landons doing ok lately, too. Maybe that lends some credibility of its own.

Please note that I do not care about your aiming wars, boys. I'm just playing along, since your arch rivals haven't stepped up to propel this thread along its merry way.

(I don't use a formal system, trying to figure out which end of the cue to hold. That's challenging enough.)
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Landons doing ok lately, too. Maybe that lends some credibility of its own.


I doubt that there is a man among us who, if *Dad* was trying to sell something, wouldn't endorse it. Whether we truly used it or not.

Let's face it: if challenged on the issue, to a man, we would swear undying belief in whatever it was Dad was selling. It is what it is. Endorsements -- and inherent credibility -- stem from the roots of an unbiased position that can be recognized by one and all and withstand the challenge of bias. A father/son relationship does not withstand that scruntiny.

Lou Figueroa
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
I doubt that there is a man among us who, if *Dad* was trying to sell something, wouldn't endorse it. Whether we truly used it or not.

Let's face it: if challenged on the issue, to a man, we would swear undying belief in whatever it was Dad was selling. It is what it is. Endorsements -- and inherent credibility -- stem from the roots of an unbiased position that can be recognized by one and all and withstand the challenge of bias. A father/son relationship does not withstand that scruntiny.

Lou Figueroa

Of course, the flip side to that is that any child of a professional instructor in any field, will very likely be brought up and trained in the manner of the fathers expertise. If Landon weren't so young, perhaps your point might very well have merit, but it stands to most reasonable folks that a young child would indeed be very, very likely to be working the way dad teaches.

He hasn't much time to develop a style of his own, certainly not to be playing at this level.

Just my .02, worth exactly what you paid for it.
 

justcueit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I doubt that there is a man among us who, if *Dad* was trying to sell something, wouldn't endorse it. Whether we truly used it or not.

Let's face it: if challenged on the issue, to a man, we would swear undying belief in whatever it was Dad was selling. It is what it is. Endorsements -- and inherent credibility -- stem from the roots of an unbiased position that can be recognized by one and all and withstand the challenge of bias. A father/son relationship does not withstand that scruntiny.

Lou Figueroa

JUST within the last month Landon won his fifth junior national championship, played quite well against great players like Morra and Strickland, and won a tournament tonight. *Dad's* CTE/PRO ONE instruction/training/information does work whether *You* choose to accept it or not. Most assuredly you will say my credibility is questionable as well since I have a wife/mother relationship with the father/son. I am not a pool player but I do witness the exchange of information between father and son and with that being said, our home is open for you to witness it for yourself at any time.
 

champ2107

Banned
JUST within the last month Landon won his fifth junior national championship, played quite well against great players like Morra and Strickland, and won a tournament tonight. *Dad's* CTE/PRO ONE instruction/training/information does work whether *You* choose to accept it or not. Most assuredly you will say my credibility is questionable as well since I have a wife/mother relationship with the father/son. I am not a pool player but I do witness the exchange of information between father and son and with that being said, our home is open for you to witness it for yourself at any time.

don't worry, this Lou F guy is a spiteful, immature and a miserable old guy and holds grudges against everyone. He purposely is posting that here to stir shit up, just like the guy who started this thread.

Ps- your son plays great pool and seems to be a great kid from what everyone says!!
 
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robsnotes4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Don't worry

JUST within the last month Landon won his fifth junior national championship, played quite well against great players like Morra and Strickland, and won a tournament tonight. *Dad's* CTE/PRO ONE instruction/training/information does work whether *You* choose to accept it or not. Most assuredly you will say my credibility is questionable as well since I have a wife/mother relationship with the father/son. I am not a pool player but I do witness the exchange of information between father and son and with that being said, our home is open for you to witness it for yourself at any time.

It doesn't matter what anything thinks or says or even if Landon has used CTE since Day 1 of his learning. What matters is Results. He has Results, and has proven himself to be very successful. Whatever has been learned by him has worked very well. I will say it time and time again, he has an amazing mental attitude. His focus reminds me of Tiger Woods in his early days. Smile and be Proud.:smile:
 

justcueit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
don't worry, this Lou F guy is a spiteful, immature and a miserable old guy and holds grudges against everyone. He purposely is posting that here to stir shit up, just like the guy who started this thread.

Ps- your son plays great pool and seems to be a great kid from what everyone says!!

You aren't telling me anything I haven't already figured out. lol

No worries here, sometimes a mom has to say what a mom has to say. ;)
 

Roadie

Banned
It is quite interesting how for many years the advocates of aiming systems have given examples of professionals who use, endorse and teach them and almost every time the opponents have said that the words and results of those players don't count. Yet when Mr. Schmidt goes on a rant about his personal opposition to them his words are treated like gospel. Mr. Duell did not say he is opposed to aiming systems, he simply said he does not get CTE. When he attempted to explain what he personally does he was rudely interupted and we did not get a full explanation of the method Mr. Duell uses.

Mr. Shuffett, Landon, uses a method of aiming taught to him by Hal Houle and further refined by his father Stan. Stan is a retired teacher who happened to cash in the final 32 of last year's United States Open 9 Ball tournament out of a field of more than 200 players. That tournament was won for the second year in a row by Darren Appleton who endorses the SEE system of aiming.

I suspect that if Mr. Schmidt were to spend some time at Mr. Stan Shuffet's house that he would come to see the value of what Mr. Shuffet teaches. After all Mr. Shcmidt said in another section of this forum that he respects Landon Shuffett's skill. Now clearly the skill level of Landon is not entirely due to the fact that he uses a branded aiming system. But hopefully we can agree that he appears to be an honest and classy young man who has no reason to lie about how he aims a shot. Thus one can conclude that this is an integral part of his way of playing pool.

Therefore while fair is fair and it can be said that if aiming system proponents can have their icons then certainly the opponents can use Mr. Schmidt's words for their side as long as those words stand. Fair being fair though, if the opponents want to use Mr. Schmidt's words then they have to allow for the words, actions and results of the professionals who are known to use and endorse aiming systems.
 
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