Everyone Uses an Aiming System - CTE

bigshooter

bigshooter

<--vs Chuck Norris on TAR
Silver Member
There is no one on the planet who does not use an aiming system - all pool players started out using a system.

I keep reading the term 'feel' player - a feel player is simply a player who started with an aiming system and used it long enough that the system became ingrained and they no longer consciously think about it.

Even if you are a HAMB advocate you have an aiming system. You started out training your brain by trial and error. Your brain learned that aiming a particular way got the desired result and you repeated that shot until it was learned.

I learned as a ghost ball shooter graduating to HAMB. I played that way since I was 10 years old.

I have spent the last six months working on CTE/Pro 1 - retraining my brain from my learned HAMB aiming system to my new aiming system. I am now at the point where its becoming second nature and I shoot CTE without thinking about it. So by definition I am just as much as a feel player as anyone else if that's what you want to call it.

Interesting thing: I stuck exclusively to CTE and did not practice Pro 1 as demonstrated on Stan's DVD. I planned on working on the Pro 1 one pivot after I nailed CTE pivoting down but then it just happened naturally.

I found myself sliding in and pivoting (non manual) right into position and firing the ball into the hole. No one knows I pivot unless I tell them.

If you are an 'aiming system basher' you are really just bashing yourself without realizing it - just like you are using an aiming system and not realizing it. Not to offend but I view people who are not willing to try new things as being small minded, especially when you do not give it a chance but continue to criticize. You look foolish.

I have nothing to gain by coming on this forum and talking up CTE/Pro 1 and its pretty sad I expect to get mocked for most of my CTE posts but I really don't care. If I can get even one young player hooked on the best aiming system in pool it's worth it. The system is powerful and works whether you choose to believe it or not.
 
O

og pro

Banned
"Feel" at a advanced level means shooting angles, pretty much. The players learned to align with these angles subconsciously and systematically. Most players that say they shoot by feel "don't really know" if there using contact points,ghost ball, etc. Now what do systems like pro1 teach?

"I look at the shot and see/picture/feel the shot and shoot" <<<< You are seeing the angle and aligning to it and then shooting, Bring a feel shooter to the a table and question him and break down his method and find out his method because he most likely wont know exactly how he is aiming on a shot and this goes for pro's also.
 
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D

duckie

GregH
Silver Member
You can have whatever opinion you want, but just because you think everyone uses a system, doesn't make it so.

You may observe a player and assume he must be using some system because of the consistency he has that you don't.

My opinion is that those that bash non system users, ie feel players, is that the non system user bashers are jealous of the feel player, ie non system user, for having something a system user will never have. And are not willing to work for, ie practice.

Shot making is all about visualizing the shot, the whole shot, and not just pocketing the ball. This is where all systems, except ghost ball fail.

Just one example of having to "see" the shot before you can do it is in 14.1 and safety play. When the is full, meaning there is all 14 balls racked and you are gonna play a safe, you have to see what you want to do before you can do it. In this case, the goal is not to pocket a ball, but thing a ball on the rack with the CB and knowing 1) where the CB is gonna go, 2) where the balls in the rack are gonna go.

Not a system around will help you with this example. Ghostball will only give a spot to hit after you decided where you want the CB and other balls to go, but does nothing for where the CB is going or how the balls in the rack are gonna move. Opening up a rack in 14.1 is not as easy as you think nor is safety play, but unless you play 14.1, I can understand how you will not understand this example.

It is feel from "seeing" the shot first in your head, then doing that makes this shot work, not any form of aiming system.

As for winning a league, by guess handicapped, tournament using xxx system is a joke. Why, because, it wasn't the system use that won as trying to be implied and if you buy that it was all just the system, you lack a real understanding of human performance and what it takes to perform a a very high level.
 
O

og pro

Banned
duckie said:
You can have whatever opinion you want, but just because you think everyone uses a system, doesn't make it so.

You may observe a player and assume he must be using some system because of the consistency he has that you don't.

My opinion is that those that bash non system users, ie feel players, is that the non system user bashers are jealous of the feel player, ie non system user, for having something a system user will never have. And are not willing to work for, ie practice.

Shot making is all about visualizing the shot, the whole shot, and not just pocketing the ball. This is where all systems, except ghost ball fail.

Just one example of having to "see" the shot before you can do it is in 14.1 and safety play. When the is full, meaning there is all 14 balls racked and you are gonna play a safe, you have to see what you want to do before you can do it. In this case, the goal is not to pocket a ball, but thing a ball on the rack with the CB and knowing 1) where the CB is gonna go, 2) where the balls in the rack are gonna go.

Not a system around will help you with this example. Ghostball will only give a spot to hit after you decided where you want the CB and other balls to go, but does nothing for where the CB is going or how the balls in the rack are gonna move. Opening up a rack in 14.1 is not as easy as you think nor is safety play, but unless you play 14.1, I can understand how you will not understand this example.

It is feel from "seeing" the shot first in your head, then doing that makes this shot work, not any form of aiming system.

As for winning a league, by guess handicapped, tournament using xxx system is a joke. Why, because, it wasn't the system use that won as trying to be implied and if you buy that it was all just the system, you lack a real understanding of human performance and what it takes to perform a a very high level.
Click to expand...

I think ghost ball is not about visualizing the whole shot. In my opinion it is about focusing on just hitting a contact point on the object ball and that's where ghost ball fails as a intermediate level of play. I would be willing to bet you don't even use the ghost ball method of aim when in a run on a table. Now I will not be able to prove this but I stand behind what I have said.

Any good player that uses a system is also aware of contact points,angles,etc and it is a non issue in your 14-1 example.
 
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CJ Wiley

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
The most important "system" in pool is NOT the aiming system, it's the system to.....

bigshooter said:
There is no one on the planet who does not use an aiming system - all pool players started out using a system.

I keep reading the term 'feel' player - a feel player is simply a player who started with an aiming system and used it long enough that the system became ingrained and they no longer consciously think about it.

Even if you are a HAMB advocate you have an aiming system. You started out training your brain by trial and error. Your brain learned that aiming a particular way got the desired result and you repeated that shot until it was learned.

I learned as a ghost ball shooter graduating to HAMB. I played that way since I was 10 years old.

I have spent the last six months working on CTE/Pro 1 - retraining my brain from my learned HAMB aiming system to my new aiming system. I am now at the point where its becoming second nature and I shoot CTE without thinking about it. So by definition I am just as much as a feel player as anyone else if that's what you want to call it.

Interesting thing: I stuck exclusively to CTE and did not practice Pro 1 as demonstrated on Stan's DVD. I planned on working on the Pro 1 one pivot after I nailed CTE pivoting down but then it just happened naturally.

I found myself sliding in and pivoting (non manual) right into position and firing the ball into the hole. No one knows I pivot unless I tell them.

If you are an 'aiming system basher' you are really just bashing yourself without realizing it - just like you are using an aiming system and not realizing it. Not to offend but I view people who are not willing to try new things as being small minded, especially when you do not give it a chance but continue to criticize. You look foolish.

I have nothing to gain by coming on this forum and talking up CTE/Pro 1 and its pretty sad I expect to get mocked for most of my CTE posts but I really don't care. If I can get even one young player hooked on the best aiming system in pool it's worth it. The system is powerful and works whether you choose to believe it or not.
Click to expand...

You're right, we all use a system to walk, drive a car and eat. Each of these activities are more difficult at times than playing pool.

The most important "system" in pool is NOT the aiming system, it's the system for hitting the cue ball straight and precisely. You can aim better than Efren, but if you can't hit the cue ball accurately it makes no difference.

Feel, and "aiming systems" all fail if you don't have a system that many call a "pre shot routine" to address consistency in stroke, alignment, deflection and cue ball targeting. The "margin of error" we create in pool is at the cue ball, in creating a minute zone that allows us to "miss" in a way that is positive.

Jack Nicklaus, the famous golfer said "golf is a game of controlling your misses".......I agree and believe pool is the same, we are not perfect and there's no use looking for a "perfect system," it's about understanding how to play your best despite imperfection. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
bigshooter

bigshooter

<--vs Chuck Norris on TAR
Silver Member
duckie said:
You may observe a player and assume he must be using some system because of the consistency he has that you don't.

I never assume anything - I'll leave that up to you.

My opinion is that those that bash non system users, ie feel players, is that the non system user bashers are jealous of the feel player, ie non system user, for having something a system user will never have. And are not willing to work for, ie practice.

You are correct there were lots of other players jealous of me when I was a 'feel player' - good point. Then again I am still a feel player - I just feel a lot better.

Are you really posting on a sub-forum called 'aiming systems' and then complaining for getting criticized for trumpeting against aiming systems? Do you drink a lot?

Shot making is all about visualizing the shot, the whole shot, and not just pocketing the ball. This is where all systems, except ghost ball fail.

The only part of this comment that is correct is "ghost ball fail"

... you lack a real understanding of human performance and what it takes to perform a a very high level.
Click to expand...

I can only dream of having your infinite understanding and performing at the high level in which you dwell.
 
bigshooter

bigshooter

<--vs Chuck Norris on TAR
Silver Member
CJ Wiley said:
You're right, we all use a system to walk, drive a car and eat. Each of these activities are more difficult at times than playing pool.

The most important "system" in pool is NOT the aiming system, it's the system for hitting the cue ball straight and precisely. You can aim better than Efren, but if you can't hit the cue ball accurately it makes no difference.

Feel, and "aiming systems" all fail if you don't have a system that many call a "pre shot routine" to address consistency in stroke, alignment, deflection and cue ball targeting. The "margin of error" we create in pool is at the cue ball, in creating a minute zone that allows us to "miss" in a way that is positive.

Jack Nicklaus, the famous golfer said "golf is a game of controlling your misses".......I agree and believe pool is the same, we are not perfect and there's no use looking for a "perfect system," it's about understanding how to play your best despite imperfection. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Click to expand...

Very well said CJ.
 
SJDinPHX

SJDinPHX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
bigshooter said:
(A)-There is no one on the planet who does not use an aiming system - all pool players started out using a system.

(B) -Even if you are a HAMB advocate you have an aiming system. You started out training your brain by trial and error. Your brain learned that aiming a particular way got the desired result and you repeated that shot until it was learned.

(C)-I found myself sliding in and pivoting (non manual) right into position and firing the ball into the hole. No one knows I pivot unless I tell them.

(D)-If you are an 'aiming system basher' you are really just bashing yourself without realizing it - just like you are using an aiming system and not realizing it. Not to offend but I view people who are not willing to try new things as being small minded, especially when you do not give it a chance but continue to criticize. You look foolish.
Click to expand...

Sir,

This could possibly be the most uninformed 'pro-aiming system' diatribe I have ever seen ! ...You make John Barton look like an 'Aiming System' HATER !

(A)---How do you know this ?...I guess I may be the only one on the planet. What qualifies YOU to make that assumption ?

(B)---This statement makes absolutely NO sense at all !

(C)---Why would anyone care, how much "slipping, sliding, and pivoting" you do ?...Unless you 'fire' ALL these balls in, and never miss, no one will ever know (or care) who you are !...How many of the 'Old Time Greats' do you think you could have beaten ?

(D)---Do you think that calling people 'foolish' or 'small minded' is not offensive to them, just because they don't agree with you..Just because HAMB, [or 'natural talent'] did not work for you..you felt an overwhelming need to keep searching for pool nirvana !...I am one (of many) HAMB worked quite well for...I have been playing pool at a very high level, for over 60 yrs.. In case you haven't noticed, all this stuff, CTE, TOI, CID, BHE, (and a dozen other acronyms), have only been around since the web has been active in pool (10-15 years or so). So you are saying that all the great players, who came before, were short sighted, small minded or ignorant ?

A few years back, the enigmatic, Hal Houle, convinced all the "C" players, (with NO natural talent for the game) that they really needed all the 'foolproof' aiming systems, now being offered, in order to ever make a ball. !...Sadly, the truth is, their improvement would only be marginal, at best !....Is that where you find YOURSELF ?

SJD..Dick Mc Morran
 
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O

og pro

Banned
SJDinPHX said:
Sir,

This could possibly be the most uninformed 'pro-aiming system' diatribe I have ever seen ! You make John Barton look like an A.S. HATER !

(A)---How do you know this ?...I guess I may be the only one on the planet. What qualifies YOU to make that assumption ?

(B)---This statement makes absolutely NO sense at all !

(C)---Why would anyone care, how much "slipping, sliding, and pivoting" you do ?...Unless you 'fire' ALL these balls in, no one will ever know (or care) who you are !

(D)---Do you think that calling people 'foolish' or 'small minded' is not offensive to them, just because they don't agree with you..Just because HAMB, or natural talent did not work for you..you felt the need to keep looking...I am one (of many) it worked quite well for. I have been playing pool at a very high level, for over 60 yrs, and in case you haven't noticed, all this CTE, TOI, CID, BHE stuff, has only been around since the web has been active in pool (10-15 years or so. So you are saying that all the great players, who came before, were short sighted, small minded or ignorant ?

A few years back, the enigmatic, Hal Houle, convinced all the "C" players, (with NO natural talent for the game) that they needed all the 'foolproof' aiming systems, now being offered, in order to pocket balls.!...Sadly, their improvement will only be marginal, at best !..Is that where you find yourself ?

SJD..Dick Mc Morran
Click to expand...

I bet I could explain how you aim better than you can and I don't know you. You learned to shoot angles and do it extremely well. You look at a shot and are able to subconsciously,quickly and correctly approach the shot on the correct shot line consistently, that is a subconscious system you personally learned on your own.

"Feel" should really be named subconscious aiming and systems should be renamed conscious aiming.

What do you think will happen if you use hal system everyday for a year or two, what do you think the end result will be?
 
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whammo57

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
I don't use any aiming system. On a hard shot, I stand up high and try to get an over view of the cut angle and then I get down on the shot and use the force.

Kim
 
B

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
Even if a person says they're not using a aiming system (and let's assume they aren't), their brain is using one. Their brain is saying "There is the ball. I want it to go over there. Do "this" to make it happen."

Your brain is taking visual input and making hundreds of yes/no decisions that are very systematic. Your brain doesn't operate on feel.

If it helps you to "cue" your brain (not the pool-cue variety; the Director's variety) with pivots, angles and such, fine. If not, that's fine too.

Whatever works for you.
 
bigshooter

bigshooter

<--vs Chuck Norris on TAR
Silver Member
SJDinPHX said:
Sir,
Do you think that calling people 'foolish' or 'small minded' is not offensive to them, just because they don't agree with you..Just because HAMB, [or 'natural talent'] did not work for you..you felt the need to keep looking...I am one (of many) HAMB worked quite well for...I have been playing pool at a very high level, for over 60 yrs.. In case you haven't noticed, all this stuff, CTE, TOI, CID, BHE, (and a dozen other acronyms), have only been around since the web has been active in pool (10-15 years or so). So you are saying that all the great players, who came before, were short sighted, small minded or ignorant ?

A few years back, the enigmatic, Hal Houle, convinced all the "C" players, (with NO natural talent for the game) that they really needed all the 'foolproof' aiming systems, now being offered, in order to ever make a ball. !...Sadly, the truth is, their improvement would only be marginal, at best !....Is that where you find YOURSELF ?[/COLOR]

SJD..Dick Mc Morran
Click to expand...

Congratulations on your long term success.

I did not say anyone who does not use an aiming system is small minded, nor did I say anyone who disagrees with me is small minded.

What I said was that people who criticize things without at least learning how they work are small minded. I think if you re-read my post a little closer you will agree.

I do believe that natural shooters have an aiming system... they may not be conscious of it. I don't know why this is so offensive I was a natural shooter for 33 years my own self.

As far as John Barton goes he is my friend, a sponsor of my local pool tournaments and I'm honored to be compared to him.

I might know Hal Houle better than you do. (maybe not) Hal called me in 2004 when I lived in Tulsa and we talked at lengths a few times. He was certainly excited about pool and his aiming system. I found Hal to be a gentleman and inspiration.

As for your last statement I am going to say I'm at least a c+ player. :wink:
 
SJDinPHX

SJDinPHX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
bigshooter said:
Congratulations on your long term success.

I did not say anyone who does not use an aiming system is small minded, nor did I say anyone who disagrees with me is small minded.

What I said was that people who criticize things without at least learning how they work are small minded. I think if you re-read my post a little closer you will agree.

I do believe that natural shooters have an aiming system... they may not be conscious of it. I don't know why this is so offensive I was a natural shooter for 33 years my own self.

As far as John Barton goes he is my friend, a sponsor of my local pool tournaments and I'm honored to be compared to him.

I might know Hal Houle better than you do. (maybe not) Hal called me in 2004 when I lived in Tulsa and we talked at lengths a few times. He was certainly excited about pool and his aiming system. I found Hal to be a gentleman and inspiration.

As for your last statement I am going to say I'm at least a c+ player. :wink:
Click to expand...

Just kidding about your skill level, Mr. B.S. (no pun intended)...And, yes, Hal Houle and John Barton are certainly gentlemen !...However, the jury is still out on the "Inspirational" part !

PS..Unless of course, you think JFK "inspired" LBJ ?....Then I can't help you !..:rolleyes: :smile:
 
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L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good shooters consciously know what they are doing, but most can't verbally describe what they are doing.
 
BilliardsAbout

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
I think ghost ball is not about visualizing the whole shot.
Click to expand...

Not wishing to argue with you, but aren't CTE, TOI, aim and pivot, etc. looking at intermediate targets and not the "whole shot"?

I don't like ghost ball for myself personally but all the above and more allow one to look at a target(s) without needing to look at a pocket fully... no?
 
macguy

macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
duckie said:
You can have whatever opinion you want, but just because you think everyone uses a system, doesn't make it so.

You may observe a player and assume he must be using some system because of the consistency he has that you don't.

My opinion is that those that bash non system users, ie feel players, is that the non system user bashers are jealous of the feel player, ie non system user, for having something a system user will never have. And are not willing to work for, ie practice.

Shot making is all about visualizing the shot, the whole shot, and not just pocketing the ball. This is where all systems, except ghost ball fail.

Just one example of having to "see" the shot before you can do it is in 14.1 and safety play. When the is full, meaning there is all 14 balls racked and you are gonna play a safe, you have to see what you want to do before you can do it. In this case, the goal is not to pocket a ball, but thing a ball on the rack with the CB and knowing 1) where the CB is gonna go, 2) where the balls in the rack are gonna go.

Not a system around will help you with this example. Ghostball will only give a spot to hit after you decided where you want the CB and other balls to go, but does nothing for where the CB is going or how the balls in the rack are gonna move. Opening up a rack in 14.1 is not as easy as you think nor is safety play, but unless you play 14.1, I can understand how you will not understand this example.

It is feel from "seeing" the shot first in your head, then doing that makes this shot work, not any form of aiming system.

As for winning a league, by guess handicapped, tournament using xxx system is a joke. Why, because, it wasn't the system use that won as trying to be implied and if you buy that it was all just the system, you lack a real understanding of human performance and what it takes to perform a a very high level.
Click to expand...
All players who play by feel actually use a system. It may just be the way they set up on the shot, how they chalk, where the place their feet, how many strokes they take and so on. It all culminates in them making balls and playing at their current level. It was learned by trial and error through repetition and time. Often a lot of time. A taught system can greatly shorten the learning curve and for a player with a little talent super speed up their improvement. I am not just talking I used to see it all the time in my pool room. I would have guys coming in, often for years, who played together. Then one day one of them may take an added interest in the game and myself or another knowledgeable player in the room would work with them a little. Sometimes just playing with them and offering a little advice when needed on fundamentals and so forth.

Generally it always had to do with set up, how to approach the ball to find the point of aim and so on. You find they never did it the same way twice and if they did make a ball they don't know how or why they made it and can't repeat the result. It never failed, in a few weeks their buddies they had played with for maybe years could not play with them anymore.

I have a strong feeling that all the feel players don't realize they actually use systems. I think the most common system used by the feel player is how they move around the table and approach the shot. You see them position their feet, often hold out the cue in front of them and then come down on the ball and fire, almost seeming not to aim, but they really did. They are looking at something, a part of the ball, a spot on the ball, something they always do they are not really aware of. They are doing something whether they know it or not, that if interrupted or changed would greatly effect their game. Should a feel player go any long period of time and not play, they often have to relearn what it is they do through practice and repetition because they are not really aware of why it is they can play in the first place.

These are just my observations from years of being in poolrooms and watching and talking to players not meant to be any kind of argument but if I am in error and I could be, please point it out. That is what discussion is for.
 
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G

GaryB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SJDinPHX said:
Sir,

This could possibly be the most uninformed 'pro-aiming system' diatribe I have ever seen ! ...You make John Barton look like an 'Aiming System' HATER !

(A)---How do you know this ?...I guess I may be the only one on the planet. What qualifies YOU to make that assumption ?

(B)---This statement makes absolutely NO sense at all !

(C)---Why would anyone care, how much "slipping, sliding, and pivoting" you do ?...Unless you 'fire' ALL these balls in, and never miss, no one will ever know (or care) who you are !...How many of the 'Old Time Greats' do you think you could have beaten ?

(D)---Do you think that calling people 'foolish' or 'small minded' is not offensive to them, just because they don't agree with you..Just because HAMB, [or 'natural talent'] did not work for you..you felt an overwhelming need to keep searching for pool nirvana !...I am one (of many) HAMB worked quite well for...I have been playing pool at a very high level, for over 60 yrs.. In case you haven't noticed, all this stuff, CTE, TOI, CID, BHE, (and a dozen other acronyms), have only been around since the web has been active in pool (10-15 years or so). So you are saying that all the great players, who came before, were short sighted, small minded or ignorant ?

A few years back, the enigmatic, Hal Houle, convinced all the "C" players, (with NO natural talent for the game) that they really needed all the 'foolproof' aiming systems, now being offered, in order to ever make a ball. !...Sadly, the truth is, their improvement would only be marginal, at best !....Is that where you find YOURSELF ?

SJD..Dick Mc Morran
Click to expand...

Presumptuous and closed minded to say the least.
 
CJ Wiley

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
there is feel involved AND there is a systematic way of hitting the target

macguy said:
All players who play by feel actually use a system. It may just be the way they set up on the shot, how they chalk, where the place their feet, how many strokes they take and so on. It all culminates in them making balls and playing at their current level. It was learned by trial and error through repetition and time. Often a lot of time. A taught system can greatly shorten the learning curve and for a player with a little talent super speed up their improvement. I am not just talking I used to see it all the time in my pool room. I would have guys coming in, often for years, who played together. Then one day one of them may take an added interest in the game and myself or another knowledgeable player in the room would work with them a little. Sometimes just playing with them and offering a little advice when needed on fundamentals and so forth.

Generally it always had to do with set up, how to approach the ball to find the point of aim and so on. You find they never did it the same way twice and if they did make a ball they don't know how or why they made it and can't repeat the result. It never failed, in a few weeks their buddies they had played with for maybe years could not play with them anymore.

I have a strong feeling that all the feel players don't realize they actually use systems. I think the most common system used by the feel player is how they move around the table and approach the shot. You see them position their feet, often hold out the cue in front of them and then come down on the ball and fire, almost seeming not to aim, but they really did. They are looking at something, a part of the ball, a spot on the ball, something they always do they are not really aware of. They are doing something whether they know it or not, that if interrupted or changed would greatly effect their game. Should a feel player go any long period of time and not play, they often have to relearn what it is they do through practice and repetition because they are not really aware of why it is they can play in the first place.

These are just my observations from years of being in poolrooms and watching and talking to players not meant to be any kind of argument but if I am in error and I could be, please point it out. That is what discussion is for.
Click to expand...


Your points are all valid. It's' like having an "aiming system" for shooting basketball, hitting the golf fairway/green, or passing a football. Of course there is feel involved AND there is a systematic way of hitting the target consistently. It's a matter of understanding what a true system is and how it works to produce consistent results.....relying on just "feel" doesn't and simply can't produce these results without a process, either conscious or subconscious that you can rely on.....especially under pressure.

It's even like shooting "Sporting Clays" or a pistol, you look at your target and match the barrel to your eyes and fire. The target is the object ball....you just need a consistent part to "aim at" which for me is the Center or the Edge depending on how much angle I need to create.

Those target choices are all I need for the object ball, then the "fine tuning" is done at the cue ball.....because it's the same distance from my eyes and I can see exactly how my tip will connect to that target.....the cue ball target. This is where the only "margin of error" in pool is essential, where the tip contacts the cue ball. No one can hit exactly where they're "aiming" on the cue ball, that's why I use the TOI System, so I can be off either way on the cue ball and still know I'm going to make the object ball. Without creating this margin of error pool would be a very difficult game for me......but it's not difficult at all. 'The Game is the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com
 
ThePoliteSniper

ThePoliteSniper

Fruitshop Owner
Silver Member
macguy said:
All players who play by feel actually use a system. It may just be the way they set up on the shot, how they chalk, where the place their feet, how many strokes they take and so on. It all culminates in them making balls and playing at their current level. It was learned by trial and error through repetition and time. Often a lot of time. A taught system can greatly shorten the learning curve and for a player with a little talent super speed up their improvement. I am not just talking I used to see it all the time in my pool room. I would have guys coming in, often for years, who played together. Then one day one of them may take an added interest in the game and myself or another knowledgeable player in the room would work with them a little. Sometimes just playing with them and offering a little advice when needed on fundamentals and so forth.

Generally it always had to do with set up, how to approach the ball to find the point of aim and so on. You find they never did it the same way twice and if they did make a ball they don't know how or why they made it and can't repeat the result. It never failed, in a few weeks their buddies they had played with for maybe years could not play with them anymore.

I have a strong feeling that all the feel players don't realize they actually use systems. I think the most common system used by the feel player is how they move around the table and approach the shot. You see them position their feet, often hold out the cue in front of them and then come down on the ball and fire, almost seeming not to aim, but they really did. They are looking at something, a part of the ball, a spot on the ball, something they always do they are not really aware of. They are doing something whether they know it or not, that if interrupted or changed would greatly effect their game. Should a feel player go any long period of time and not play, they often have to relearn what it is they do through practice and repetition because they are not really aware of why it is they can play in the first place.

These are just my observations from years of being in poolrooms and watching and talking to players not meant to be any kind of argument but if I am in error and I could be, please point it out. That is what discussion is for.
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I think there is confusion because people use different definitions for "aiming" and "aiming system". An aiming system as I understand is a method that is supposed to help the player to figure out where the cueball has to make contact with the object ball. But even the almighty ghostball can only give an approximation if you consider the effects of objectball throw. It happens to me all the time when I try to use something like ghostball or contact-to-contact on a tough shot. The system gives me an aiming point, but once I'm behind the shot my gut instinct tells me that I would be hitting the objectball on the thick side. And when english is added to the equation it gets even more complicated. By that definition, feel is as much an aiming system as bald is a hair color.
I think what you are talking about is alignment. For example if you try to place your right foot on the aiming line for every shot, the aiming process is already done before you place your foot on that line. It has to be, or else you wouldn't know where to place your foot. It's about getting in line, and if something like CTE helps a player to get in line then they should use it. But I think there are better methods available.
In other words: Everybody uses a pre-shot routine, consciously or unconsciously (consistently or inconsistently).
 
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