Cenntennial, Anniversary, Gold Crown 1, 2, and 3 frames, how flat do think they are

realkingcobra · Oct 25, 2015

Before I post any pictures, I'd like to get the opinions of the AZB members as to how flat do you think these frames are, seeing how many of you feel that the older Brunswick tables are built so much better than today's pool tables are. And, if the frames are not flat, what effect do you suppose that has on leveling the slates on the frames?

JoeyInCali · Oct 25, 2015

Within a 1/4 of an inch?
If they are not flat, then the slates will be elevated in some areas.
Some areas of the table will be baster and some will be slower ?

realkingcobra · Oct 25, 2015

Where's all the "Anniversaries were the best" supporters?

iusedtoberich · Oct 25, 2015

I've read some of the old GC1 installation manuals, and they said the installer was supposed to flatten the top with a jack plane. I might be remembering incorrectly, I read that 10 years ago.

That said, I've always wondered this myself. If the slate is sitting on leveling screws, or wood shims, or playing cards, or Diamond's plastic shims, then why would the frame being level make any difference? Does the slate even touch the wood, when these leveling methods are used?

ElCorazonFrio · Oct 25, 2015

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that they are flat enough to play pool on. My evidence is the fact that people play pool on them.

I don't really care how flat they are. I enjoy playing on a well maintained Anniversary, Centennial or Gold Crown much more than I enjoy playing on diamonds.

I can't wait to hear your answer and for you to enlighten us on how flat diamond tables are. We'll then likely have a little discussion about your measurement methods and you'll probably learn something, if you are inclined.

jasonlaus · Oct 25, 2015

ElCorazonFrio said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that they are flat enough to play pool on. My evidence is the fact that people play pool on them.

I don't really care how flat they are. I enjoy playing on a well maintained Anniversary, Centennial or Gold Crown much more than I enjoy playing on diamonds.

I can't wait to hear your answer and for you to enlighten us on how flat diamond tables are. We'll then likely have a little discussion about your measurement methods and you'll probably learn something, if you are inclined.

I agree 100% with the first 2 paragraphs, as for the 3rd, like you said....does it really matter

I'm about 99% certain I'm going with a 10' Anniversay or Centennial. Hell, i might even keep the Arcade.
what I do know for sure is they play a lot better than diamonds and I havent had any problems with balls rolling off.
Jason

pwd72s · Oct 25, 2015

If only diamonds would LOOK this good. Aesthetics matter. Especially to the lady of the house...(file photo..not my table.)

realkingcobra · Oct 25, 2015

pwd72s said:
If only diamonds would LOOK this good. Aesthetics matter. Especially to the lady of the house...(file photo..not my table.)

That was John's Cenntennial in Arizona, I rebuilt the rails on it.

realkingcobra · Oct 25, 2015

ElCorazonFrio said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that they are flat enough to play pool on. My evidence is the fact that people play pool on them.

I don't really care how flat they are. I enjoy playing on a well maintained Anniversary, Centennial or Gold Crown much more than I enjoy playing on diamonds.

I can't wait to hear your answer and for you to enlighten us on how flat diamond tables are. We'll then likely have a little discussion about your measurement methods and you'll probably learn something, if you are inclined.

Well, for your information there Einstein, most Cenntennials, Anniversaries, and Gold Crowns in pool rooms are not level.

realkingcobra · Oct 25, 2015

iusedtoberich said:
I've read some of the old GC1 installation manuals, and they said the installer was supposed to flatten the top with a jack plane. I might be remembering incorrectly, I read that 10 years ago.

That said, I've always wondered this myself. If the slate is sitting on leveling screws, or wood shims, or playing cards, or Diamond's plastic shims, then why would the frame being level make any difference? Does the slate even touch the wood, when these leveling methods are used?

Well, what about when the slate is screwed down to the frame, but the frame is dipped down by say 1/4" on the outside edges, which then causes the slate to be bend down to the frame where it's being mounted to. That pulling the slate down on both sides of the frame is what causes the center of the slate to be high centered, or crowned as is most often determined. What most table mechanics do at that point is overlook at what's causing the crown, and go right into center drilling the slates at the seams to then pull down the crown, only, it's still being held down, bent over the inside edge of the frame, so from about a diamond from the side rails, the slate ends up dipping down towards the rails, but the middle two Diamonds play pretty level the length of the table.

ElCorazonFrio · Oct 25, 2015

realkingcobra said:
Well, for your information there Einstein, most Cenntennials, Anniversaries, and Gold Crowns in pool rooms are not level.

And yet, somehow I've managed to play pretty well on every one I've played on. Weird.

Is this that 'contributing' you were talking about? So far you've said nothing of use, nothing most of us don't know, and vaguely insulted a bunch of people on their preference.

EDIT: This was originally posted as your explanation was posted.

Question, tho, if the slate is being bent over the middle of the frame, how do they pull it down?

pdcue · Oct 25, 2015

ElCorazonFrio said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that they are flat enough to play pool on. My evidence is the fact that people play pool on them.

I don't really care how flat they are. I enjoy playing on a well maintained Anniversary, Centennial or Gold Crown much more than I enjoy playing on diamonds.

I can't wait to hear your answer and for you to enlighten us on how flat diamond tables are. We'll then likely have a little discussion about your measurement methods and you'll probably learn something, if you are inclined.

Mark this date on the calendar - I agree completley with frio.

Dale

pdcue · Oct 25, 2015

realkingcobra said:
Well, for your information there Einstein, most Cenntennials, Anniversaries, and Gold Crowns in pool rooms are not level.

Well that CERTAINLY was NOT THE CASE in the 40s, 50s, and 60s, back when
poolrooms were for pool players and owners knew/cared about equipment.

Dale

realkingcobra · Oct 25, 2015

pwd72s said:
If only diamonds would LOOK this good. Aesthetics matter. Especially to the lady of the house...(file photo..not my table.)

You have Diamond mixed up with the home table industry and the commercial industry. If Diamond was relying on home table sales to support their overhead, they would have closed their doors years ago, but to ask you a question in return, why don't Brunswick manufacturer the Cenntennials and Anniversaries anymore with such demand today for the tables, because there's no money in reproducing them today maybe?

realkingcobra · Oct 25, 2015

ElCorazonFrio said:
Question, tho, if the slate is being bent over the middle of the frame, how do they pull it down?

I guess you're not as smart as you claim to be, imagine that

realkingcobra · Oct 25, 2015

pdcue said:
Well that CERTAINLY was NOT THE CASE in the 40s, 50s, and 60s, back when
poolrooms were for pool players and owners knew/cared about equipment.

Dale

Well, just so you know, remember that slow, nappy cloth that required a stroke to get around the table with? Well, that very same cloth did wonders to hide ball roll off from un-level slates, but today's use of the worsted wool cloths, expose all the flaws in the level of a pool table....that should explain things to your level of understanding, I hope anyway

realkingcobra · Oct 25, 2015

pwd72s said:
If only diamonds would LOOK this good. Aesthetics matter. Especially to the lady of the house...(file photo..not my table.)

I always wonder why when someone suggests to everyone what kind of pool table they should own today, how come it is that they themselves don't own the table they recommend owning? Just curious, so you don't own the table pictured, especially since John sold it to a buyer in Baltimore, MD....what kind of pool table DO you own?

realkingcobra · Oct 25, 2015

pwd72s said:
If only diamonds would LOOK this good. Aesthetics matter. Especially to the lady of the house...(file photo..not my table.)

Furthermore, the Cenntennial pictured never looked that great coming new straight from Brunswick, you are aware of that, right?

realkingcobra · Oct 25, 2015

There's a reason why Brunswick started installing the support blocking under the frame cap like in these pictures of what i'm doing here, Mark Gregory installs them as well