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06-25-2019, 07:52 AM

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Originally Posted by Alan View Post
I kick myself each time I respond to you, but here I go again.

How did you pay for your college?

Colleges have a cash flow problem because they don't know how to manage cash. People have college debt they can't pay back because they were too stupid to figure out that what they were borrowing for wouldn't support them paying it back.
Partial scholarship for undergrad, parents help pay.


Full scholarship and work program for grad school.

I was 1 of 4 people in my grad program.

The college I attended had to merge with a larger institution due to budgetary problems. Once the merger finished college applications numbers went through the roof.

I had friends that attended college at different places, on full financial aid support. Some started and almost finished.

May dad almost finished college he is about 15 credits shy of the degree. But during that time he worked so much overtime because he had three kids and a wife, my mom.

He still has no desire to finish college and had a successful career without the degree.

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06-25-2019, 08:07 AM

New York University is among the country’s wealthiest schools. Backed by its $3.5 billion endowment, the school has built campuses in Abu Dhabi and Shanghai, invested billions in SoHo real estate, and given its star faculty loans to buy summer homes.

But the university does less than many other schools when it comes to one thing: helping its poor students.


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06-25-2019, 08:15 AM

These are the types of places Bernie wants to award loan forgiveness to.

Average colleges that take in the lower half of a graduating high school class don't charge as much, and those students have less need for loan forgiveness.

Then there are students from the upper half and don't have money, but go for the pricey education. Loan forgiveness is very attractive.

That is the group Bernie wants. Bernie's philosophy is, if you weren't born rich, the government can help you get the education you want at the price you want to pay.

If only life were that easy, being born without something and having someone just give it to you because you want it. That is a life lesson I will never teach. Not even when spoiling people.
.

Unless your parents are celebrities or well connected I can't imagine a low performing high school grad being accepted into a college that charges over 30K a semester or 60K per year. That is the crowd Bernie is playing too. People that are not connected but got accepted into those pricey schools.

Its the same problem as home ownership. Some people can't afford the risk, life happens and then the regret surfaces. Putting people in expensive schools, there is an admissions process to avoid problems like college debt, some schools just don't care.

Apparently Bernie believes in the culture that attending the expensive school is the only available option. So much so that he is going to put money on it, and watch it pay off. Despite the fact that most schools have a graduation rate of 60%. 6 in 10 graduate, while 4 in 10 will flunk out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LAMas View Post
New York University is among the country’s wealthiest schools. Backed by its $3.5 billion endowment, the school has built campuses in Abu Dhabi and Shanghai, invested billions in SoHo real estate, and given its star faculty loans to buy summer homes.

But the university does less than many other schools when it comes to one thing: helping its poor students.

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06-25-2019, 09:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAMas View Post
New York University is among the country’s wealthiest schools. Backed by its $3.5 billion endowment, the school has built campuses in Abu Dhabi and Shanghai, invested billions in SoHo real estate, and given its star faculty loans to buy summer homes.

But the university does less than many other schools when it comes to one thing: helping its poor students.
I would possibly favor some laws or regulations to help rope that in.

Students first. Domestic students.


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06-25-2019, 09:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by justnum View Post
These are the types of places Bernie wants to award loan forgiveness to.

Average colleges that take in the lower half of a graduating high school class don't charge as much, and those students have less need for loan forgiveness.

Then there are students from the upper half and don't have money, but go for the pricey education. Loan forgiveness is very attractive.

That is the group Bernie wants. Bernie's philosophy is, if you weren't born rich, the government can help you get the education you want at the price you want to pay.

If only life were that easy, being born without something and having someone just give it to you because you want it. That is a life lesson I will never teach. Not even when spoiling people.
.

Unless your parents are celebrities or well connected I can't imagine a low performing high school grad being accepted into a college that charges over 30K a semester or 60K per year. That is the crowd Bernie is playing too. People that are not connected but got accepted into those pricey schools.

Its the same problem as home ownership. Some people can't afford the risk, life happens and then the regret surfaces. Putting people in expensive schools, there is an admissions process to avoid problems like college debt, some schools just don't care.

Apparently Bernie believes in the culture that attending the expensive school is the only available option. So much so that he is going to put money on it, and watch it pay off. Despite the fact that most schools have a graduation rate of 60%. 6 in 10 graduate, while 4 in 10 will flunk out.
A few of my engineering friends went to those $60,000/yr. universities in LA because they didn't have the grades and or their parents were well off. The acceptance rates for those universities is a low number while SJSU costs $39,000/yr and has lower grade requirements.

My G-daughter was accepted to only SJSU because of a low GPA. Her parents are separated and her mother never filed a tax return so the possible fed aid never materialized after their audit. She would have had to drop out like a few of her friends that didn't get their fed aid for this and other reasons and couldn't afford to attend without that.

I pay her bills and she didn't quit or get expelled and is getting better grades being away from home.

Had I known all of this, she might not have tried to get a degree. We didn't know what we didn't know but she is in SJSU and is all that matters for now. The Boys and Girls Club didn't advise that her mother should file tax returns. She being 18 now has applied for next year on her own so the fed funds may come.

Bernie will not be able to help even if he has unfulfilled good intensions. His rich backers are getting busted getting their kids in while G-kids like mine could have gotten bumped by them.

Counselling at SJSU had no useful advise for my G-kid to get past the fed declination. They implied, "Just keep paying your bills".


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06-25-2019, 10:35 AM

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Originally Posted by Chopdoc View Post
Cheap for her. I wouldn't compare it to med school, or even my undergrad. Some of my undergrad was more expensive than med school.

I think it's no more than $3,000 a year, $1,500 a semester at most. That's about 10% of the income from a full time minimum wage job I think.

She is paying for it herself mainly.

One time I took her shopping for school supplies. She was stunned when we got to the register and I paid. It was something like $150.

There was another time when I did write a check for her tuition. I think it was somewhere between $1,200 and $1,500. Why? Because I could and it felt good doing it. Again she was stunned.

.
Yeah.....that is cheap. Around here, I want to say in state tuition is $8,000 per year.
  
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06-25-2019, 11:55 AM

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Originally Posted by LAMas View Post

Counselling at SJSU had no useful advise for my G-kid to get past the fed declination. They implied, "Just keep paying your bills".
Pairing up with an employer helps they usually have tuition reimbursement programs that depend on the grades,

Or taking fewer classes a semester while working part time is common.

On campus jobs are the best because travel time is the lowest.

It is highly advised to never take out loans. And to keep costs minimal. Women in engineering schools typically have access to essay and small prize scholarship contests. Hearing about them is the hardest part, most are sponsored by employers screening potential hires.

They are always on the lookout for recruits that appreciate and understand an opportunity that shouldn't be taken for granted. Especially if recruits can articulate that on paper.

Its great you can support her through school.

For my family I end supporting them through a tough time with alcohol, possibly drugs or being on the receiving end of some animosity. Some people just aren't ready for the college challenge.
  
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06-25-2019, 12:06 PM

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Originally Posted by FairladyZ View Post
Why is our Resident Liberal Peanut Gallery so silent on this one?
Sev says they've been cleared out, and if that isn't quite entirely true yet, they are an endangered species hereabouts.

For my view, I do not support this man or his candidacy, or support most of his policy ideas, and specifically, I oppose this one. However, since it is a complete non-starter and cannot happen (even if, impossibly, he won and proposed it), it isn't worth much discussion imo. "Bernie bad"? Yes. Next topic.


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06-25-2019, 12:13 PM

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Originally Posted by jimmyg View Post
NO....he is doing nothing more than trying to buy votes by making promises that are not only unsound but ones that he cannot and will never deliver. And he knows it! Don't be duped...wake up!
^^^Here, here. Or is it, hear, hear?

Anyway, perzactly right. Stupid people say stupid things, especially when running for office. Many people have a plan until reality hits them in the face.

Many things could be addressed if there was unlimited money to throw at them. True, but check that big if.


The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.

― Garry Kasparov

... the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts.

― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

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06-25-2019, 01:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by justnum View Post
Pairing up with an employer helps they usually have tuition reimbursement programs that depend on the grades,

Or taking fewer classes a semester while working part time is common.

On campus jobs are the best because travel time is the lowest.

It is highly advised to never take out loans. And to keep costs minimal. Women in engineering schools typically have access to essay and small prize scholarship contests. Hearing about them is the hardest part, most are sponsored by employers screening potential hires.

They are always on the lookout for recruits that appreciate and understand an opportunity that shouldn't be taken for granted. Especially if recruits can articulate that on paper.

Its great you can support her through school.

For my family I end supporting them through a tough time with alcohol, possibly drugs or being on the receiving end of some animosity. Some people just aren't ready for the college challenge.
Justnum,

Thanks for the recommendations and interest.

She came home for the Summer to save on room and board intending to take Calc 2 at a city college close by but she was late and one of a hundred applicants for a class of 30.

She has to finish one year of college with good grades in order to be a Summer Intern here at work, later this year. If her grades are good, I or my daughter can get her that job where we work in aerospace. She can work at SJSU but that job would have to fit her class schedule.

I have participated in the new hire programs at work where we look at resumes and talk to the candidates. We have hired a few graduate engineers and the last one lives in SJ and graduated from Irvine down here. I asked why not go to SJSU instead and he rightfully said that So Cal has aerospace jobs and SJ has software jobs like at Intel - smart kid.

She may write a paper to get a grant/scholarship but they are competitive and a drop in the bucket unless you are very poor - her choice.

If she desires, she/I can get a job where I work whether she graduates or not even if it's working on the production line. From there, she can work her way up as I and my daughter did.

I can relate to your support for the family or Son in my case. He was a gangbanger and eventually became a truck driver. Truckers made good money when he started but the Teamsters didn't take care of their ward and companies found ways to hire independent drivers and held the increases at a minimum. I send his daughter to SJSU and tell him that is as much as I can do for him.

Thanks and be well


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06-26-2019, 03:56 AM


It was years back. Ancient history.

I worked summers and saved every nickel. Atlas Door Company,
Dawn Donuts, Sales in a Big Box store, American Shipbuilding,
Interlake Iron, Chesapeake & Ohio, and later the University of
Toledo.

Lived at home and commuted. Through the year managed on $5
per week for everything including gas. I picked up two passengers
going to UT for payment. Offset the gas. I had one HS rider that
said he could pay but he didn't. Went to his home. Spoke to his
mother. She paid what her son promised. I see him at HS reunions
and we are fine. Managed to keep $50 cars running while working
on my bachelor's degree. Drove downtown to a gas station alternate
weeks to save 3 cents a gallon on gas.

University costs were under $1,000 a year. Compare that with
my earing say at the donut shop of $70 a week for 70 hours.
4 AM start, washed everything, made about 20 dozen of fry
cakes a day. Put jelly in donuts and frosted some with a sick
smelling frosting. The frosting machine was never cleaned nor
washed for the entire summer. Just sat there. Did janitorial and
unloaded delivery trucks. Boxed flower and lard are heavy.

One year I was short about $300. A friend loaned me the money.
I spoke of this before. Joe Suchomma is gone now. A Vietnam
vet who never spoke of his time there.

I graduated debt free.

When I was nearing a BSEE, the department chairman offered
me a graduate assistant position. That was payment of all my
course work, about $1000 a year, and I taught laboratory portions
of electrical related courses. Power Lab, Electronics Lab, and
Feedback which was the most interesting. The best part of the
deal was having an office at the university.

I continued working at the C&O railroad. Bought my first nice car
for $800. Ended up leaving before taking my masters. I was stuck
on my thesis. After 1000 hours, I knew it would not be completed.

Two years later my friend Tom promoted a new thesis topic at
the Medical College of Ohio. I requested and gained an extension
as the 5 years were running out. Worked on the thesis, and took
a one month leave at Edison to focus on software aspects and
write the thesis. I received a 9 hour A and the department chair
was excited and wished me to go for a doctorate. It had been far
too long.

I graduated debt free.

Today the costs are unreasonable. I know as I paid for three
degrees. They graduated debt free. Bride from UT and daughter
from Ohio State.

Today you need decent jobs, work year round which I didn't. And still,
save every nickel. Probably live with family during your studies so
you would attend a local university. Living off campus is a must as
the majority of your costs are for the room and meals. Much more
than the coursework.

Still, it can be done. Don't take a loan unless there is no other fvcking
way. And if you can't find another way, perhaps college is not for you.

The most important thing is selecting course work that results in a
productive job upon graduation. Courses with Art, or Studies, or
Theater won't do it. Traditional studies. When you put yourself through
you appreciate your degrees. It also carries through to your work
career. You know that you can.

I have a cousin who is a bit older. He worked two jobs in the summer.
Sun Oil and also drove gasoline trucks. He took a Doctor of Dental
Surgery from Ohio State. He graduated debt free.

He was the first to take a college degree in our extended family. I was
the second. Many more have followed.




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Alan
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06-26-2019, 04:23 AM

In a word, a person needs to be "responsible".




Quote:
Originally Posted by Slide Rule View Post

It was years back. Ancient history.

I worked summers and saved every nickel. Atlas Door Company,
Dawn Donuts, Sales in a Big Box store, American Shipbuilding,
Interlake Iron, Chesapeake & Ohio, and later the University of
Toledo.

Lived at home and commuted. Through the year managed on $5
per week for everything including gas. I picked up two passengers
going to UT for payment. Offset the gas. I had one HS rider that
said he could pay but he didn't. Went to his home. Spoke to his
mother. She paid what her son promised. I see him at HS reunions
and we are fine. Managed to keep $50 cars running while working
on my bachelor's degree. Drove downtown to a gas station alternate
weeks to save 3 cents a gallon on gas.

University costs were under $1,000 a year. Compare that with
my earing say at the donut shop of $70 a week for 70 hours.
4 AM start, washed everything, made about 20 dozen of fry
cakes a day. Put jelly in donuts and frosted some with a sick
smelling frosting. The frosting machine was never cleaned nor
washed for the entire summer. Just sat there. Did janitorial and
unloaded delivery trucks. Boxed flower and lard are heavy.

One year I was short about $300. A friend loaned me the money.
I spoke of this before. Joe Suchomma is gone now. A Vietnam
vet who never spoke of his time there.

I graduated debt free.

When I was nearing a BSEE, the department chairman offered
me a graduate assistant position. That was payment of all my
course work, about $1000 a year, and I taught laboratory portions
of electrical related courses. Power Lab, Electronics Lab, and
Feedback which was the most interesting. The best part of the
deal was having an office at the university.

I continued working at the C&O railroad. Bought my first nice car
for $800. Ended up leaving before taking my masters. I was stuck
on my thesis. After 1000 hours, I knew it would not be completed.

Two years later my friend Tom promoted a new thesis topic at
the Medical College of Ohio. I requested and gained an extension
as the 5 years were running out. Worked on the thesis, and took
a one month leave at Edison to focus on software aspects and
write the thesis. I received a 9 hour A and the department chair
was excited and wished me to go for a doctorate. It had been far
too long.

I graduated debt free.

Today the costs are unreasonable. I know as I paid for three
degrees. They graduated debt free. Bride from UT and daughter
from Ohio State.

Today you need decent jobs, work year round which I didn't. And still,
save every nickel. Probably live with family during your studies so
you would attend a local university. Living off campus is a must as
the majority of your costs are for the room and meals. Much more
than the coursework.

Still, it can be done. Don't take a loan unless there is no other fvcking
way. And if you can't find another way, perhaps college is not for you.

The most important thing is selecting course work that results in a
productive job upon graduation. Courses with Art, or Studies, or
Theater won't do it. Traditional studies. When you put yourself through
you appreciate your degrees. It also carries through to your work
career. You know that you can.

I have a cousin who is a bit older. He worked two jobs in the summer.
Sun Oil and also drove gasoline trucks. He took a Doctor of Dental
Surgery from Ohio State. He graduated debt free.

He was the first to take a college degree in our extended family. I was
the second. Many more have followed.



  
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06-26-2019, 05:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
In a word, a person needs to be "responsible".
If you can put yourself through and attain a worthwhile degree and graduate
debt free, you are responsible. Highly responsible.

This can also assist in job interviews. Companies like can do people and hire
as many as they can. You will make a profit for whoever hires you.

Dad was overjoyed when I attended and when I took degrees. His son.
And then my brother Bruce also took an engineering degree. Two of his
four sons with degrees.


  
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