I Used to Use a System But Now....

jasonlaus said:

So how many $1,000 sets do you and all the other "aiming system" players play? How do you guys ever miss if these systems work?
I will take BasementDweller or myself to play every single one of the "system players" on here a race to 11, and by every single one that's what I mean, EVERYONE. Everybody post lets say $100(cheap enough) and I will play every single one of you. Would hope BD would also play.
I promise I will eventually get to every one of you.
Jason

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Going by your other post where you stated that you felt you would most likely lose to B.D., you might want to rescind your post above. Now, nothing against B.D.'s game at all. In fact, I like his game. He has put in a lot of work, and it is really showing for him. He's one of a very, very, few in the area that are actually willing to work and improve. For that alone, I give him a LOT of props.

I'll just say this- at the last big local open trny we both played in, he didn't have to play in the upper division.

Can't help but wonder if you even realize that most of the better players on here have stated that they use some type of system at least part of the time when playing.

BasementDweller said:

"What is so ridiculous about Puyat Sports calling Hal from the PIs and setting up the lesson. Hal showed Efren how to really see CCB."

Stan Shuffett


The implication was that the greatest player of all time did not know how to properly aim shots until Hal showed him how.

It has also been said that Efren played his best pool prior to ever visiting the states. The guy probably had the aiming part of the game down before he turned 10.

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Where you go wrong is in stating that Efren felt he didn't know how to aim properly. Ever consider that Efren and his friends were smart enough to be willing to learn something new in the journey to improve on what he already has?

Dan White said:

LOL. Anyone with a reasonable amount of time under his belt playing pool can aim perfectly well. The "secret" the pro's have is that their stroke motion is highly perfected and they can hit the exact spot on the cue ball they want to hit. That plus great knowledge of the rest of the game, of course.

It's like selling a system for reading a book. After you learn what words are and how to sound them out, eventually you look at words and you just know what it says and what it sounds like without falling back on a reading system. Your brain has internalized it. Aiming is the same way, which is why I can confidentally say that professional players have no need of an aiming system. Shane's system, if you can understand it (not sure Shane himself does) is a pre-shot routine, which is different from a system like CTE.

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Maybe you should have some facts before you make claims like you do. :wink:
https://vimeo.com/35382368

mohrt said:

Why not just ask Efren?

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Ask Efren about what?
I speak educated Tagalog . Tagalog is also Efren's second dialect.
Efren told me himself he played his best pool way before he came to the states.
He told me this while we were at the second floor of the Hollywood Billiards.
Efren was playing 3-cushion upstairs against a gentleman named Bruce.
Bruce shot with an elephant-ear wrapped Gina cue. Efren drank Henessy and had buffalo wings while playing.
Efren played with a Meucci. The same year he beat Earl in TCOM match.
I was also at Efren's friend's house the day Mark Wilson called about the TCOM match. Efren told us some stories about his conquests .
While in the US , he shot his best pool with super long $15 cue that had a cue ball ferrule. He never liked low deflection shafts . Figure that out.
If you really want to know Efren's ways, you might as well take lessons from Ramon " Monching " Mistika.
Efren does not like teaching. He tells people to take lessons from Parica or Mistika instead.
Efren says he spins the cue ball too much himself. He told me that himself.

This has nothing to do with the aiming wars btw.
Pls don't shoot the messenger.

Neil said:

Maybe you should have some facts before you make claims like you do. :wink:
https://vimeo.com/35382368

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yep....sure nuff...what you said....your link...plus this from some years before....

i play ok....joey grey plays ok...shane plays ok as well last i checked.

we all use the same exact method, that we came upon on our own selves....a method that can be traced back to at least Ralpf Greenleaf.....

but.....carry on.

-Greyghost

deleted ...........

JoeyInCali said:

Really Neil?
By the time Efren was 16 years old, he was running 15-balll rotation opposite handed on crummy tables.
He was splitting the pockets of the Big Bertha table at Hard Times with Parica when they got there .
They already knew how to aim like world champions when they got here .
I had dinner with Parica and one of his students in Pioneer, a few miles from Hard Times . He said his brain is just like a computer when he shoots.
Parica ran his first 15-ball rotation when he was 12 according to him.

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You might want to re-read what I wrote.

greyghost said:

yep....sure nuff...what you said....your link...plus this from some years before....

i play ok....joey grey plays ok...shane plays ok as well last i checked.

we all use the same exact method, that we came upon on our own selves....a method that can be traced back to at least Ralpf Greenleaf.....

but.....carry on.

-Greyghost

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Good luck in using SVB's system. :thumbup:

JoeyInCali said:

Good luck in using SVB's system. :thumbup:

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he's using mine i predate his teachings by some years on the net...so this must be true lol :thumbup:

not really but it is exactly the same thing. no questions asked. its not really "our" method......imop its the precusor to CTE before all the pivoting took place.....has traces back to pools original prince....Ralph Greenleaf......

many former S.A.M. method players in the midwest who have caught that higher level of being have found this......i speak of the midwest because this is where i have found the predominance for shaft aiming to come from in the usa as far as my studies and questions have taken me over the years.

yall know a greyghost well enough, i love the history of all this "crap" lol...shots, moves, fundamentals, cues, tables....gosh...me thinks i may just like this game too much sometimes lol

crap = the most minute and amazing instances, occurrences and observations found in the game that the typical 5sp doesn't give a fook about or even thinks is valid

not sure how many years i been saying what f'n cueball....and look how shane talks.....

we all do diff things but dont be so quick so say people are off their shit, or need to quit the lsd......

thats what i was told....still am told about it.....and one of the worlds scarriest players does and speaks the same thing.

whats funny is if you watch the video....tho the "students" are in no way being rude.....they are basically saying the same thing....THIS IS CRAZY AND MAKES NO SENSE

then 5 min later OMG.....THIS MAKES SENSE

lol

whatever
-Greyghost

You guys aim? What a novel thought.

Colonel said:

You guys aim? What a novel thought.

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aim-ish.......typical aiming and this style....aint even in the same category of talk when speaking of aiming.....most imagine aim.....some of us literally SEE the aim....because its there...so theres no "aiming" in the typical sense jabbing about blind in the dark guessing at imaginary points.....

its an access, see the spot, hit the spot....no imagination required no visualization of anything in regards to an aim point.....

its the only "system" albiet its also stupidly simple once one understands.....that gives you such points to my knowedge. Evertying else is imagination, again as far as I know.....besides of course the CTE pro one where your aiming at the OB edges.....only time i ever acknoledge an edge of the OB is on extremely tight cuts....the rest is just as shane says....at the base where that spot shows.

i just trust it and dont worry about it...."put stick here" yay it fell like it always does...awesome, more brain to dedicate to game theory yay shadow method.

it can be lumped in generally asa B.o.B aiming method because thats whre the points are on the back side.

its more of a SEEING and alignment method, rather than an aiming system if i had to describe what it really does best......because standard and most forms of aiming in this game require the imagination to make illusions of a point like how many of us see tracks on the table for path lines.
-Greyghost

greyghost said:

aim-ish.......typical aiming and this style....aint even in the same category of talk when speaking of aiming.....most imagine aim.....some of us literally SEE the aim....because its there...so theres no "aiming" in the typical sense jabbing about blind in the dark guessing at imaginary points.....



its an access, see the spot, hit the spot....no imagination required no visualization of anything in regards to an aim point.....



its the only "system" albiet its also stupidly simple once one understands.....that gives you such points to my knowedge. Evertying else is imagination, again as far as I know.....besides of course the CTE pro one where your aiming at the OB edges.....only time i ever acknoledge an edge of the OB is on extremely tight cuts....the rest is just as shane says....at the base where that spot shows.



i just trust it and dont worry about it...."put stick here" yay it fell like it always does...awesome, more brain to dedicate to game theory yay shadow method.



it can be lumped in generally asa B.o.B aiming method because thats whre the points are on the back side.



its more of a SEEING and alignment method, rather than an aiming system if i had to describe what it really does best......because standard and most forms of aiming in this game require the imagination to make illusions of a point like how many of us see tracks on the table for path lines.

-Greyghost

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Well you are one of the 1st instructors I've heard lend any credence to those that use visualization, I tip my hat to you for that.

As far as your method, if it works for people & lets them be better at the game then what's not to like. Pool needs people that have the gift of being able to explain it to others that want to learn it. While extremely proficient at it I can't explain it. I read threads where people speak of aiming, looking from cue ball to object ball, all of these different things so many focus on that I just don't do & when I tell people it sounds insane & I get that look from them that confirms that.

I never look at the cue ball once I drop on the shot, I don't aim, I don't really think about anything, I just see it. When you tell people that they think you're yanking their chain, but I'm not. I learned through complete immersion as a child, I think it's those that learn that way that play very well but don't have the gift to explain anymore than they can explain how they breathe.

I think your hearts in the right place & that you love it & have a gift in being able to share that with others in a way that works for them. In the end that's all that matters.

Colonel<------ is crazy but you can't say my avatar didn't warn you.

Colonel said:

Well you are one of the 1st instructors I've heard lend any credence to those that use visualization, I tip my hat to you for that.

As far as your method, if it works for people & lets them be better at the game then what's not to like. Pool needs people that have the gift of being able to explain it to others that want to learn it. While extremely proficient at it I can't explain it. I read threads where people speak of aiming, looking from cue ball to object ball, all of these different things so many focus on that I just don't do & when I tell people it sounds insane & I get that look from them that confirms that.

I never look at the cue ball once I drop on the shot, I don't aim, I don't really think about anything, I just see it. When you tell people that they think you're yanking their chain, but I'm not. I learned through complete immersion as a child, I think it's those that learn that way that play very well but don't have the gift to explain anymore than they can explain how they breathe.

I think your hearts in the right place & that you love it & have a gift in being able to share that with others in a way that works for them. In the end that's all that matters.

Colonel<------ is crazy but you can't say my avatar didn't warn you.

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I also just "see" the shot while standing. I see the contact point on the OB and then stand where the cueball would contact that point.
Once I drop on the shot I am already aligned, if it doesnt look right I stand back up. There is NO adjustment after dropping on the shot.

They keep saying that is a system, but I disagree. I have no reference point other than what my eyes are telling me are contact points on each ball.
I also do not adjust for english and play on tight pockets 4 1/8 - 41/4 without issue.

Saying contact point is a system is crazy, how else do you make a ball if the contact points are not lined up??? I cannot make the ball if my CB contact point is an 1/8th inch off to either side unless the OB is in the pocket.

What do you guys think?

Spider, I do not want to argue with you anymore, if we run into eachother at a poolroom around here I'd be willing to have a look at what you guys do.
The reason I don't understand it is that I just "see" it and don't understand why everybody else doesn't.
It could be that I've hit a million plus balls(probably) and my mind sees it by memory.
Jason

Neil said:

Going by your other post where you stated that you felt you would most likely lose to B.D., you might want to rescind your post above. Now, nothing against B.D.'s game at all. In fact, I like his game. He has put in a lot of work, and it is really showing for him. He's one of a very, very, few in the area that are actually willing to work and improve. For that alone, I give him a LOT of props.

I'll just say this- at the last big local open trny we both played in, he didn't have to play in the upper division.

Can't help but wonder if you even realize that most of the better players on here have stated that they use some type of system at least part of the time when playing.

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I feel like I would not mind playing you for the $$$$

I didn't necessarily say I'd lose, I was trying to say why bother playing a tough game when the object is to win $$$. I thought that was very clear.

So, once in a while they use a system?

jasonlaus said:

If seeing the contact point is a system then you got me.

I IF? There is no IF. You claim to be this great know it all player/hustler and you don't even know what an aiming system is that's been around almost longer than anything else? GB might be the oldest. You came charging in here claiming that you didn't use ANY aiming system.
All you did was see the shot. But what you're really doing is CONNECTING DOTS. Yep, I GOT YOU. YOU ARE AN AIMING SYSTEM USER!!

Here is you post in it's entirety.

05-18-2016, 09:39 AM

"I use contact point to contact point. When I fall on the shot everything is aligned already. If it feels wrong I stand back up and look at the shot again.

I just don't understand what everybody else is seeing(or not seeing in this case) where they have to use a "system" or "method" to find the cut/shot angle?

Can this be explained so I can quit making fun of ya'll"


As far as John goes, I like most of his posts and if he was willing I said I'd take a look. You are way out of line bringing other people into this.

No I'm not. Especially if someone is a friend of mine. I'm going to contact JB and find out who you really are, if he knows.

Maybe you could tell us about rhe dinner you had last night with Earl, or maybe the lessons you gave R. Morris, or even about the time you taught Darren how to jump balls

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How about you tell us when you plan to call Stevie Moore the pro CTE user and teacher to take his money? I'll be getting in touch with him in a week of two to see if you follow up or chicken out. Although I already know the answer.

SpiderWebComm said:

How about you tell us when you plan to call Stevie Moore the pro CTE user and teacher to take his money? I'll be getting in touch with him in a week of two to see if you follow up or chicken out. Although I already know the answer.

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Editttttttttt

jasonlaus said:

I also just "see" the shot while standing. I see the contact point on the OB and then stand where the cueball would contact that point.
Once I drop on the shot I am already aligned, if it doesnt look right I stand back up. There is NO adjustment after dropping on the shot.

Everything you described above is the CONTACT POINT AIMING SYSTEM. That's the way the system should be used. Not only that, you could easily teach someone else how to do it, couldn't you?

They keep saying that is a system, but I disagree. I have no reference point other than what my eyes are telling me are contact points on each ball.

Dude, it's an aiming system. ALL aiming systems start with the EYES. Stan keeps saying it over and over...THE EYES LEAD AND THE BODY FOLLOWS. What's different between one aiming system is WHAT the eyes see and WHERE they see it. It might not be two points of contact. Instead it would be the edge or center of the CB with another part of the OB but NOT the contact points.

I also do not adjust for english and play on tight pockets 4 1/8 - 41/4 without issue.

Saying contact point is a system is crazy, how else do you make a ball if the contact points are not lined up???

Contact point aiming is a system. You can make balls with OTHER visual methods as I said above which is using center and edges or other visuals

Listen, I was a big numbnuts know nothing to this also at one time. People with far greater skills and outside the box thinking came up with these different ways of seeing shots and lining them up other than with contact points. It wasn't me or even Stan. Stan just took it further once he learned it.

I cannot make the ball if my CB contact point is an 1/8th inch off to either side unless the OB is in the pocket.

What do you guys think?

What I think is you have a lot to learn. IF you are open minded enough and get with the right people who can instruct it properly and IF your current playing skills are as good as you think or say they are, you'll go to a higher level than you can imagine.

Spider, I do not want to argue with you anymore, if we run into eachother at a poolroom around here I'd be willing to have a look at what you guys do.

Nor do I with you. We're all in this game for the same thing which is enjoyment and getting better any way we can.

The reason I don't understand it is that I just "see" it and don't understand why everybody else doesn't.
It could be that I've hit a million plus balls(probably) and my mind sees it by memory.
Jason

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It works that way with ALL aiming systems. You learn to just SEE it. The difference is they have different perspectives and they do go into the memory bank and becomes second nature.

SpiderWebComm said:

It works that way with ALL aiming systems. You learn to just SEE it. The difference is they have different perspectives and they do go into the memory bank and becomes second nature.

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AKA...feel

BeiberLvr said:

AKA...feel

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Please pick out the definition of FEEL that most applies to planning to make an OB by hitting it with a CB. The sense of SMELL makes about as much sense as FEEL.
""I CAN JUST SMELL WHERE TO HIT THOSE BALLS"

feel
/fēl/
verb
verb: feel; 3rd person present: feels; past tense: felt; past participle: felt; gerund or present participle: feeling

1. be aware of (a person or object) through touching or being touched.
"she felt someone touch her shoulder"

•be aware of (something happening) through physical sensation.
"she felt the ground give way beneath her"

•examine or search by touch.
"he touched her head and felt her hair"

synonyms: touch, stroke, caress, fondle, finger, thumb, handle More

"she felt the fabric"

•test, try (out), check, assess

"feel the temperature of the water"

•be capable of sensation.
"the dead cannot feel"

•give a sensation of a particular physical quality when touched.
"the wool feels soft"

synonyms: seem, appear, strike one as
"the air feels damp"

•informal
investigate something cautiously.
"they want to feel out the situation"

•informal
fondle someone for one's own sexual stimulation.

2.experience (an emotion or sensation).
"I felt a sense of excitement"

synonyms: experience, undergo, go through, bear, endure, suffer
"you will not feel any pain"

•consider oneself to be in a particular state or exhibiting particular qualities.
"he doesn't feel obliged to visit every weekend"

•have the strength and energy to do or deal with.
"after the accident she didn't feel up to driving"

•be healthy and well.
"Ruth was not quite feeling herself"

•be emotionally affected by.
"he didn't feel the loss of his mother so keenly"

•have compassion for.
"poor woman—I feel for her"

synonyms: sympathize with, be sorry for, pity, feel pity for, feel sympathy for, feel compassion for, be moved by; More
commiserate with, condole with

"tell your mother we certainly feel for her"

3. have a belief or impression, especially without an identifiable reason.
"she felt that the woman positively disliked her"
synonyms: sense, have a (funny) feeling, get the impression, have a hunch, intuit
"I feel that he is only biding his time"

•hold an opinion.
"I felt I could make a useful contribution"

synonyms: believe, think, consider (it right), be of the opinion, hold, maintain, judge; More
informalreckon, figure

"he feels that he should go to the meeting"

noun

noun: feel; plural noun: feels
1. an act of touching something to examine it.

•the sense of touch.
"he worked by feel rather than using his eyes"

synonyms: (sense of) touch, tactile sense, feeling (one's way)
"the divers worked by feel"

2. a sensation given by an object or material when touched.
"nylon cloth with a cotton feel"

synonyms: texture, surface, finish; More
weight, thickness, consistency, quality

"the feel of the paper"

•the impression given by something.
"the restaurant has a modern bistro feel"

synonyms: atmosphere, ambience, aura, mood, feeling, air, impression, character, tenor, spirit, flavor; More
informalvibrations, vibes

"the feel of a room"


How does FEEL supersede the laser like accuracy of the eyes for specific sight or vision alignment.

Hey, if you want to play by FEEL, be my guest. It's YOUR game, not mine. Going into the memory bank and becoming second nature is NOT feel. It's still the eyes and accurate visual alignment. The difference is it's done at a much faster speed and knowing what and where to look with the eyes is very acute once trained.