Best 3C players ever

illusivetrout said:

My vote is for Blomdahl.He plays for position of all three balls.He is very creative in difficult situations,misses the kisses,plays timed shots and is not afraid to go 8,9,10 cushions around the table and still be right on the centerline of the last object ball.I must say that Jaspers is getting pretty hot and dangerous lately.I think these modern day players could show Hoppe a few things.

Click to expand...

Yes, Blumdahl is awesome and should be mentioned in the top players of all time, but everything you mentioned, Ceulemans did as well. I saw him look at a ticky and say out loud he would run a 5 and did, that's position play in advance.

I also believe that Hoppe given today’s equipment and style of play (more offensive) would have been amung the elite, he was incredibly talented. He played a control game using many safeties and still averaged 1.+. It was just such a different era it is really hard to compare. But Hoppe belongs in the top 5 as well.

As solid as Blumdahl, Ceulemans, Jaspers, etc. were/are, there was no one more elegant and creative at the table as Sang Lee was. Of course that's of those I have personally seen play. He had a flair that was all his own - people used to predict what he would shoot and get whiplash from him hitting a completely different shot. He just simply did not play at his highest level for long enough to be considered in the list for top 10, but he was sure fun to watch.

Dave

I don't have a lotta 3c knowledge in any sense of the phrase, but I think you would have to hold Cuelemans in a place above the rest as he has been at the top level for so long. And the game has changed incredibly through his time too.

Blomdahl, Jaspers, Cauderon are machines.

Ceulemans, followed by Hoppe and Blomdahl.

I never got to see Hoppe, Cochran, or Worst. Of those I have seen in person over the last 45 years Ceulemans stands at the top. The next three (in alphabetical order): Blomdahl, Caudron, and Jaspers. The next three: Sanchez, Sayginer, and Zanetti. Special mention: Sang Lee and Kobayashi.

Mark

LAlouie said:

West and Efren wouldn't make it past any decent 3c players in any given tournament much less all-time greats. 3 cushion is a different game. It's like comparing tennis and ping pong.

Click to expand...

While I understand your reasoning I know that is not the case. Dallas did play decent 3c and about 7 or 8 years ago (already in his 60's) beat Mazin Shooni at a tournament. His average was around 1.000 for the tourney.

As I recall Dallas also has a high run of 26 although he was just practicing

Duane Tuula said:

While I understand your reasoning I know that is not the case. Dallas did play decent 3c and about 7 or 8 years ago (already in his 60's) beat Mazin Shooni at a tournament. His average was around 1.000 for the tourney.

As I recall Dallas also has a high run of 26 although he was just practicing

Click to expand...

I did get to see Dallas West play billiards in the early 70's and he was considered a threat to whomever he played, but he should not be considered among the best, but was very talented and really fun to watch.

Efren did win the "B" bracket in a tournament at Chris' Billiards in Chicago averaging around 1.00 while playing a round robin of at least 8 people (some of the best from the USA) - I read the brackets that were on the wall going up the stairs. Very strong!!!! This was a tournament where world players were invited so they took the 1st place finishers from the preliminary brackets and made them the "A" group, and the 2nd place finishers to make up the "B" group, which Efren won. Of course Efren played because he was around for a pool tournament.

Since many consider Efren the best all-around pool player to ever live, and he felt his best game was straight rail billiards (read it somewhere), if he dedicated his career to 3-cushion, I believe he would be among the best 3-C player to have ever lived. There is no doubt in my mind. But he didn't, so should not be on this list. But he can play!

Dave

Terry Ardeno said:

I'm going to post this on the main forum rather than in the carom section in hopes of getting more opinions.

Who do you feel are the, say, top 5 players ever in 3 cushion? I would especially like to hear Bob Jewett's and mr3cushion's opinions on this.

I've never seen a 3C table in my life. I've watch some 3C matches and those guys are incredibly talented.

While finishing this up, Dallas West, the great 14.1 player, is also a very good 3C player, as is Efren. But they would never make the all time list of 3C champs.

But who do you feels ranks the top 5 in order of all time.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

As every post has mentioned, Raymond Ceulemans stands as number one. Just everything about his skills stand as what he is.

A very close second is Torbjorn Blomdahl. He has great shot making.

Frederic Caudron is my personal favorite because he not only reigns well in 3 cushion, but in Freegame; balkline disciplines of 47/2, 47/1, and 72/2; and cushion caroms.

D. Jaspers, D. Sanchez, S. Sagyner (trick shot master), T. Tasdemir are on the mention.

Up-and-Coming are the Belgians Eddy Leppens, Eddy Merkx, and R. Forthomme, Filipos Kasidocostas of Greece, Hugo Patino of the USA....

Relics of the past would definately be Hoppe, Maurice Vignaux, Schaffer Sr and Jr, Cochran, Masato Katsura, Sutton

I think the greatest players are alive today. Even with the better equipment, things just progress over time, each generation learns more from the one before.
Still, Raymond Ceulamans is on the list. He was the hurdle to get over for almost a whole generation. He's quite an old man now, I think if he could suddenly be thirty years younger he would be a threat all over again, but time happens to all of us.
I think now, Blomdahl and Jaspers. Sanchez never really lived up to his potential. Blomdahl has imagination, just thinking up shots that weren't there before, Jaspers is more workmanlike, like a clock.
And yes, Caudron, right near the top, but yeah, if you're talking purely 3-C, he's still in the running. If you're talking all around pure technical mastery of all aspects of billiards, all the games, I think he has to take the title there. He's a little workmanlike, too, I think sometimes, but solid work beats talent alot of the time.

Harry Simms

Harry was a true gentleman and was a great player in his day from what I understand, I would go to his pool room in St.Louis and he would loan me great footage of top 3 cushion players. I feel privilidged to have met him and he loved the game, of that I have no doubt. He owned Airport Billiards, a great place to learn the game that was player friendly and not just a room full of ego maniacs wanting to challenge the table trying to win a free beer. I always know I am in a real pool room when I see a 3 cushion table, Mr. Simms room was not what I would call an action room but more a student of the game's room (which was fine with me.)

CAUDRON
SAYGINER
ZANETTI
JASPERS
SANCHEZ
------
not in any particular order. only thing that bonds them is that, these are the past world champions of the newer post-Ceulemans era.

I think, the current top player is, based on last few years' accomplishments...Frederic Caudron!
Ceulemans was asked who the next big name will be, and he said, Caudron.
Almost equally or closely following up name is, Dick Jaspers!
Both these players actually had a laser eye surgery, and their games advanced like humangously lol.

Blomdahl owned pretty much any and everyone around 5 years ago and before. But he is on a decline now. He still did not have an eye surgery

Few years ago, the top name was Dani Sanchez of Spain. He was unstoppable.

Now, another name that needs a seperate article to be talked about. It is..Saygıner. Ceulemans' thoughts on Semih Sayginer: "He simply changed the game of 3C". Very true. Any "pool people" reading, this, if you haven't yet, youtube his name and see for yourself. All the rest follows Saygıner when it comes to "talent". No one else matches him in terms of success both in trick shots and the game of 3C. He was the world champion in 1994, I believe. He has the best talent in the game hands down. (He learned to play carom, and within his first year, he became the libre/straight game champion in Turkey. In first year of learning!!! (It took several years for Caudron to achieve the same in his native country of France) Sayginer did not have money to buy a cue. So, a carpenter made one for him for free of charge. He became "the champion" in a country with literally thousands and thousands carom tables and gazillions of advanced players.

Marco Zanetti is known to have a terrible style. But it works for him. He recently became the world champion and he is the king of position play.

My opinion on upcoming next 3C champ is, Tayfun Taşdemir. I believe he is 5th in the world rankings now but the time will come when he will constantly start schooling people. He is robotic in his shots. He has some advanced engineering degree, and he appears to apply his thinking process into the game.

Out of all these top names, it would not be possible to choose just one name as "the" best. Simply not possible! They constantly keep winning or loosing against each other. These years, Caudron and Jaspers just stand out exceptionally. The rest (excluding the top names) appear to be following them. These are:
Raul-Kim of Korea,
Kasidokostas of Greece,
Taşdemir of Turkey,
Merckx of Belgium (amazing technique)
Umeda of Japan,
Martin Horn, Germany
Tony Carlsen, Denmark
As from US: Hugo Patino can be a mentionable name as he is the only one who is coming to this side of the world for the tournaments (as far as I know) It is easy to recognize him in the tourneys with a big "USA" behind his shirt lol. He wins, but he is not consistent. My friend Lütfi Çenet schooled him last time he was around here. Sorry, Hugo!

Ceulemans

I was at a World Tournament and met a FAN who told me that he had seen EVERY world Tournament that Raymond had participated in. He said that "Ceulemans plays Billiards ... everyone else plays Ceulemans".
From what I've seen ... probably the reason he was so great.

Bob Jewett said:

The original question was about all-time, so I think you have to look at the records for pre-1960 championships....In the 1933 World Tournament, 3 of 10 players averaged over 1.000 and that was with slower cloth, ivory balls and intentional safety play.

Click to expand...

Come on, Bob! I understand the question was about all-time. However, I don't see any need to go all the way to Charlie Chaplin era players!

Besides the game then and now is very, very different. I would like to see your Cochran run that 1000pts on a Simonis Rapide :grin:

And it is interesting that you NEVER mention about the great SAYGINER! I saw you sitting there among judges next to lovely Jeanette (And I don't think I myself would be able to carry on my judgly duties sitting next to her LOL) and don't tell me you were not amazed by Semih's skills! Those shots/masses he hit for the American audience were the toughest ever shots!!! Besides, if we will go technical on terms, the OP did not clarify the definition of "best ever player" if he meant having won the most tourneys and champ'ships. Now if that is the case, we will not talk about anyone but your Hoppe, Cochran and Charlie Chaplin who played with children's marble type balls with 50 ounce sticks on a slow cloth, Ceulemans and followed by Blomdahl. But if we will talk about TALENT in the game -and having won BOTH world Trick shot AND 3C championships -not to mention libre game champs- the credit should not go anyone else but SAYGINER. Now don't you think?